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Alarm Sensors and Occupancy Sensors


jules_wake

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Hi I am building a new house in france and will have a control4 system hooked up to a legrand/bticino bus lighting system. I am now looking at alarm systems which can integrate with Control4 - it seems for the European market DSC looks the most likely - unless some one knows how to source GE 4 alarms over here.

I also want occupancy sensors in quite a few rooms, hallways and outside to turn on/off lights.

My question is whether I can use the alarm sensors as occupancy sensors or alternatively occupancy sensors as alarm sensors. In other words I don't really want to have two sets of sensors. I know that occupancy sensors can be more intelligent with light meters and timers so these would be preferable, but presumably I might be able to get round this in control4 by using programming and standard sensor.

Cheers

Jules

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I can't speak specifically about european products but DSC works very well with C4. I have been disappointed using the DSC motion sensors for occupancy though. There seems to be a significant lag between entering the room and activating a C4 event. I also have a Card Access sensor in another area and it is far superior as an occupancy sensor. I am not sure how well it would serve as a motion sensor for the alarm. I suspect if it is programmed well it might work for somethings but probably wouldn't notify you which zone is tripped on the DSC keypad.

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I have a DSC system, which overall I like. But I much prefer the additional functionality of the Card Access motion sensors. Eventually I'll probably swap out some of the existing Card Access wall sensors for the newer ceiling type. I don't have the Card Access motion sensors set to trigger alarms, but pretty sure they could be programmed that way.

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Thanks for the replies - so it looks like I am better off with occupancy sensors which hook up to an Alarm. I also wonder whether I could just use the Control4 as an alarm anyway. What extra functionality do I get with a alarm? I could programme lights, sounds and cameras to scare off potential burgulars. Only issue I can think would be having a code to arm/disarm in Control4, but to be honest where I live the burgulars are pretty low tech and would be pretty unlikely to try and disarm the system.

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Alarm sensors and occupancy sensors are for 2 different situations and therefor function differently.

You won't get the best solution by combining these for that reason.

With an occupancy sensor you want it to be quite sensitive so as to not turn off lights whilst you are in a room sitting reading, for this reason a number of occupancy sensors utilize dual technology and switch with any trigger, whilst a dual technology alarm sensor will switch only with the trigger of both at the same time as you want more accuracy in this case and no false alarms.

Hope this explains it a little better.

Have you considered the bticino occupancy sensors with your lighting system?

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Yes I am considering the BTicino/Legrand ones which look like they would be fine for occupancy they are also wired and cheaper than card access so I don't have to worry about batteries. Do you think the alarm sensors would be ok for passageways or outside to turn on lights? I could then have a mix of the two depending on the scenario. I also read somewhere that the alarm ones can take longer to trigger control4 presumably because they have to go via the alarm panel.

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Tekdoc - when you say there is a significant lag between the DSC sensor registering and the a control4 event what sort of time are your talking? I am thinking of using the alarm for turning on outside lights and passageway lights at night. I could live with one or two seconds but not much more. I assume the sensors have no light measurement so do you reckon Control4 could take the light reading from a separate sensor to apply rules for turning on lights based on DSC sensors.

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I have a DSC alarm system. I have my project set up to turn on hallway lights upon sensing motion between 10 & 6am - like a nightlight for my kids. The lights come on immediately. I have a timer set up to turn them off.

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Thanks Tokead - where I live nightime varies lots depending on the year - have you looked at other ways for setting the parameters for lighting?

I'm in Canada, so we have the same issue. With the alarm sensors in the hallway, I have just used time parameters. For my entrance lights, they turn on as soon as the door opens, which is OK as they light up our art work. I do have a Card Access sensor which I plan to use in a laundry room. There I want to use the light level feature of the sensor to determine if the light should come on.

Security is my first concern with respect to sensors, but they're working as I like for controlling lights.

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Mine certainly do not come on within 1-2 secs. Sometimes I will enter and leave a room and the lights come on afterward (30 secs or more). What DSC system and motion detectors do you guys have? I was told this was standard with the sensors and I would need the Card Access to get the immediate response I want. I have been disappointed with my alarm motion sensors with C4 since installation.

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Thanks Tokead - where I live nightime varies lots depending on the year - have you looked at other ways for setting the parameters for lighting?

So long as your system is setup correctly with your longitude and latitude then the system can look after the variation for you and you can program based on night time.

Delay from an alarm sensor on my system would not be any longer than 1 second.

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Mine certainly do not come on within 1-2 secs. Sometimes I will enter and leave a room and the lights come on afterward (30 secs or more). What DSC system and motion detectors do you guys have? I was told this was standard with the sensors and I would need the Card Access to get the immediate response I want. I have been disappointed with my alarm motion sensors with C4 since installation.

Not standard from my experience. I can watch the sensors in real time. I have the IT1000 adapter? Between my panel and a HC300. 1 sec is the norm.

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It seems that the delay varies massively - it would be good to know what is causing some systems to be so much quicker that others - 5 seconds to me would not be acceptable. Tokead which DSC model are you using - yours seems to be the quickest? I also presume you mean an IT-100 adapter - I can't find an IT1000?

BK are you using DSC as well?

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I use the same module and have a DSC 832. As I said mine are terribly slow. I programmed another today to see if the one DSC motion sensor I had programmed was malfunctioning but the other one does the same thing. It also seems to have a long recovery period before it will sense motion again which is annoying. Any ideas?

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It seems that the delay varies massively - it would be good to know what is causing some systems to be so much quicker that others - 5 seconds to me would not be acceptable. Tokead which DSC model are you using - yours seems to be the quickest? I also presume you mean an IT-100 adapter - I can't find an IT1000?

BK are you using DSC as well?

Yes, it's the 100. I'm not sure of the DSC model. I'd need to look but I'm on the road and not home for a week. FWIW I have a HC300 and HC1000 if C4 processing has an impact on reaction

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It seems that the delay varies massively - it would be good to know what is causing some systems to be so much quicker that others - 5 seconds to me would not be acceptable. Tokead which DSC model are you using - yours seems to be the quickest? I also presume you mean an IT-100 adapter - I can't find an IT1000?

BK are you using DSC as well?

Im usine a M1 panel using an IP driver.

I have quite a bit loaded and only using a HC300c at this stage. Wired sensors!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I finally got around to checking my wired motion sensors vs the wireless. The wired sensors respond much faster than the wireless. I guess this is a limitation I am not going to be able to overcome with my current hardware. Any other ideas? I don't know that I want 2 motion sensors in a room (one alarm and one Card Access). My wife tolerates one on the wall but I doubt she would like the appearance of two.

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