-defunct-

26 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

Why don't you share the literal words of your post with them and verify your assumption, or pm me their email address so i can do it?  We can see whether you're right. It wouldn't fly in my shop.

1) I'm not going to blow an alias.

2) I don't trust you.

3) It seems my comment was wholly misinterpreted as wanting to ban a user, not the case, so maybe my example was bad. That was more or less just stating that I'm not a pushover/lightweight when it comes to impacting change within the system. I actually enjoy the whole hacker scenario and would only close things through software innovation rather than restricting people by other means. The hacks show where security is lacking.

1 minute ago, South Africa C4 user said:

Threats are used when parents feel out of control. Warnings are used by parents who feel calm and in control. Threats are often empty words. Warnings are followed up by actions.

Didn't expect a random parenting discussion, but okay.

Based on the context, it was a warning and clarification of what will be done since the response to my comment about severing the functionality of the integration was that I wasn't going to do anything.

Hoping nothing happens and integration remains is pushing luck.

12 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

I thought long and hard before commenting on this as I know some won’t appreciate what I have to say.  Honestly, I love C4 and honestly, this sort of comment from a C4 employee makes me cringe.  I have no idea what customer service is like in the states, but if one of my employees made a comment like this on a public forum, I would de-authorise him from making any public comments with regard to my brand.  In fact, a comment like this would be a dismissible offence at our company as it would be in breach of our social media policy.

Please don’t get me wrong.  That does not mean that I would never cancel someones contract… I would (and have) under certain circumstances.  However, I would not go around making public threats about doing it, I would simply do it IF the circumstances warranted it.

That wasn't a threat, it was a warning.

It's good to know what kind of employer you would be. Thankfully, those above me understand the difference between a warning and a threat and would also be the ones determining if I need to ensure somebody is no longer allowed in the ecosystem as an installer or a user.

Edit* Multidisplay driver focuses on video sharing. It is the replacement for the video wall driver.

3 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

if you look at those in that Discord channel + those here I am still certain that population is in the VAST minority.

Yep. I recall the community being about 200-300 vs the Control4 customer base being 400k+, so .05% of users are in there.

3 minutes ago, therockhr said:

Again. it just seemed that way to me because of the EV purchase and the marketing of that integration at the time (around 2014 I think).

That's fair. It could have been a discussion area in a few places and could explain why Neeo was purchased instead of a remote being developed and why the C4 thermostat took so long to be replaced.

Waiting on third party devices to provide a solution hurt Control4, and I'm glad that all hardware development didn't stop. The places hardware was created gave a very good argument to keep our own devices in every category.

1 minute ago, therockhr said:

Good point. That is definitely the risk.

It seemed like a few years ago when Control4 bought Extra Vegetables that they were trying to shift away from doing audio. At that time they had the best Sonos integration out of anyone and were kind of promoting that fact. I think when Sonos then decided to change directions with their API is when they decided not to get in that potential situation.

Interestingly, that wasn't the case at all. The Control4 audio system was healthy and improving at the same time the Sonos integration was maintained the best it could.

That same period was 2.10.x where the mass amount of native services were introduced and 2.10.x saw improvements on the advanced audio with the introduction of the Triad One.

You must have not used the latest version of the app, it is faster than it has been (yes, it was slow on some systems and the iOS app was slower than the Android app)

Camera resolution is limited by EAs OSD at 720p, if that is ignored, 1080p works across the board for mobile app and touchscreens.

I don't use a separate app to view my cameras, but that is anecdotal.

Best way is split it into two 'room's in the project design so you can have both active at the same time and turn each off independently.

So one 'room' for bedroom video and one 'room' for bedroom audio.

8 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

That is some serious blinders you've got on.  I suspect a major source of churn is customers asking why, on a point by point basis (cameras, geofencing, doorbell, alarm, thermostats, Apple TV support), their 50k+ (charitably) system has fewer capabilities than what the guy next door has bought for less, maybe from a best buy, maybe from an installer who didn't try to upsell them a full system (they exist).

Do you mean integration?  I'm not sure how a two-app solution (one of which is slow to load) is better than a 3 or 4 app solution.

2 app? It's one now.

I don't think that argument happens. It's more or less why a specific feature is not integrated, like Airplay 2, or Apple Music, etc. If an entire solution was a better experience, there would be no heartache over Control4 being a non-diy solution.

11 minutes ago, buckeye said:

I fall squarely in the 3rd category and would gladly pay an annual fee much higher than $200-$300 for the ability.  On the other hand I would probably be divorced because I would be spending a lot more on new equipment and the system wouldn't always work because its in the middle of an upgrade 

As a Snap One employee on beta, I'm glad my wife has some patience, lol

2 minutes ago, therockhr said:

I actually agree with this.

I have said several times now that I dont think Control4 should ever market that anyone can program a system themselves. It should always be a dealer installed system. I have learned that even really smart people who havent had experience with real time systems might not understand how to program Control4 with just looking over a manual. They would obviously be able to learn it eventually but most people wont have the patience and will instead move on.

What I have said is that Control4 should do something to allow for these 1000 or so people who want to maintain their own system. This would cut down on the cracking. My last suggestion of opening up the driver program that costs (one time or yearly) to allow for someone to have a license that allowed them to only connect to virtual director and their project for "development" would be a way to do this. It would also get more devs creating drivers as a result. A normal control4 customer would never care about this or have any idea it even existed. This would still maintain the system as being a dealer installed system as this person would still have to get the system installed by someone and buy parts from an authorized dealer.

hmm, interesting thoughts.

I agree with your categories of those interested in home automation.

Control4 targets and builds around #1. #2 and #3 just get upset because the DIY alternatives aren't close to the same functionality.

#2 and #3 are targets of Alexa, Google Assistant, and other DIY platforms.

Open source is valuable where it is. Not all open source is secure, but that's why OSRBs exist and open source needs continually audited for vulns.

Control4 would not exist without opensource services and utlities, but the magic happens in non-open source code.

1 hour ago, therockhr said:

i could program my fireplace to come on in the middle of the night and not ever turn off in composer he. the only reason pro isnt available to non dealers is because Control4 doesnt want to make them mad. just be honest about it. its no big deal. its a perfectly rational business decision by them. I wonder say they wouldnt lose any worthwhile dealers but im sure they know them better than i do.

The reasoning is not because it will make the dealers mad. It's literally because the dealer model is considered a better solution than DIY.

It's 1000 times easier supporting individuals that are paid to install the solution than the random DIY hobbyist.

HE usage is extremely low. It's not something used by more than a handful of customers.

First question: Unfortunately the API and usage of Sonos is limited, so the full playlist won't ever show. You will need to change the audio devices to get that ability. I believe Heos and Ryff (Control4's native audio) are the only ones that allow that with a Control4 app or touchscreen.

second question: Seeking is not possible in a Control4 system, the most you can do is skip to the next track or restart the current track.

third question: The best solution here is Ryff (native audio), I believe Heos can as well, but I am not sure how good it is compared to the native experience.

What version of composer HE?

Have you tried it on a second computer?

7 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

You said this in July, too, so see attached i guess.  This is another classic step in the crash cycle - swatting gnats (or promising to) while ignoring big problems.

In July, I didn't have the request come from above me. This time it did and I kinda laughed because I had looked into it at that point and didn't have the authority to make the changes.

That changed recently.

7 minutes ago, therockhr said:

lol. you arent going to do anything.

If authorized, I can have entire people banned from the ecosystem, so I wouldn't try your luck.

7 minutes ago, 416to305 said:

The Control4 integration was introduced in Home Assistant 0.114, and it's used by 76 active installations. Its IoT class is Local Polling.

Thanks for the stats. Helps with the task I have of investigating the usage.

It is not authorized and will be shut off from access.

14 minutes ago, tmj4 said:

So what is the benefit of Ryff besides branding (which I realize carries weight)? Standardizing of audio resolution? 

It's just giving a name to the audio streaming architecture. No technical changes.

4 minutes ago, RAV said:

My point wasn't the firewall, or secuity of the network from hackers.
The focus was, once a device NEEDS to talk to other brand components, than it's security becomes more of a concern, and it's software and hardware need to keep up.

Exactly. Example: HC200/300/500 can't handle TLS1.2.

HC800 and HC250 can, but it wasn't a capability for the HC250 until 2.9.1 because it was necessary for the Napster update.

5 minutes ago, therockhr said:

They found a way to have a device last longer than 5 years is what you are saying? So it is possible!

You make ridiculous statements like this all the time to justify your or Control4's decisions.

Anything would last a long time if it was self contained, required zero updates, and sat on an isolated network.

The cloud and consumer usability changed that aspect.

8 minutes ago, therockhr said:

How old do you think the devices that control power plants and manufacturing plants are?

Very old. The government also still uses windows XP in some cases.

Doesn't make it smart or secure.

Power plants and manufacturing plants have security controls preventing access because those devices cannot survive in a hostile network. Consumer IoT has started shifting towards securing itself to be secure inside hostile environments.

2 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

What insecure about updates?

Totally missed the meaning behind that comment as well...

/shrug

I guess that's why guys like me have jobs.