Advanced Lighting Wish

[ericscales]

For advanced lighting scenes, I would like to have an option to toggle to the previous state of all lights in the scene. 

 

For example, let's suppose I have a scene that does the following:

• Foyer ceiling cans to 30%
• Foyer art lights to 30%

When I deactivate the scene, I would like each light in the scene to return to its previous start prior to scene activation.  So if I have the ceiling cans off and the foyer art lights on at 20%, then I activate the scene (ceiling cans and art lights ramp to 30%), then I deactivate the scene and I'd like the ceiling cans to turn off and the art lights to revert back to 20% (as they were).

 

I know, this can be accomplished through programming, but it's quite tedious and I feel it would not only make for cleaner/leaner programming, but a huge time saver.

 

Thoughts?

[ILoveC4]

I like it the way it is. I wouldn't want to have to turn them off twice. One back to what they were, and then again to turn them off vv

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[ericscales]

I like it the way it is. I wouldn't want to have to turn them off twice. One back to what they were, and then again to turn them off vv

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How about a checkbox so you could do either or?  So the scenes have the same functionality for toggle scenes, but if you check the box labeled "Revert to Previous State" then the toggle drop down disables and you have the functionality of doing either..

 

Fair?

[ILoveC4]

That would be fine if using a touch panel or GUI, but what about using a keypad?

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[cdepaola]

The problem is everyone has a little something they would like to see built in to make things easier. Basic functionality is the best and program more speciality stuff like this.

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[ericscales]

That would be fine if using a touch panel or GUI, but what about using a keypad?

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Sorry, I wasn't clear in my earlier post.  Was referring to a checkbox in Composer (like the "Ignore Scene Ramp/Fade" option).  So everything is the same as it is now, but an additional checkbox for each load added to the scene.  Let's assume it's called "Revert Previous".  If you check that box (in Composer) for a particular load in a scene, when the toggle scene activates, that particular load (or whichever loads that has the box checked) reverts to it's previous state and the state for those loads in the toggle scene is ignored.

 

You could also simplify and make the checkbox/trigger at the scene level, but I prefer to have granular control.

 

Essentially, the primary drawback to the dealer/composer user is that there's one more checkbox taking up real estate.

[ericscales]

The problem is everyone has a little something they would like to see built in to make things easier. Basic functionality is the best and program more speciality stuff like this.

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True, but you could make that argument for just about any features.   You can flash your lights with some code, but it's kinda nice to have that built-in.

[cdepaola]

I get it... But flashing your lights was fairly complex, while what your proposing is fairly simple to program.

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[ericscales]

I get it... But flashing your lights was fairly complex, while what your proposing is fairly simple to program.

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I'm still pretty new at this so it's very possible I'm going about my lighting the wrong way.  Perhaps you can help (I'm all for finding an easier way).  The way I'm doing it now is to save the light level to variables, activate the scene, then when I deactivate the scene I set the light levels to the values stored in the variables.  It's been really tedious for me to keep track of if I add/remove a light in a scene (then have to poke through a couple of events to add/remove the necessary variables/commands).  Also, an OCD nitpick of mine, but I don't like the lights ramping down then back up to their previous state (would look cleaner to just ramp down/up to the previous setting).

 

Do you know of an easier way?

 

Thanks for the help,

Eric

[ILoveC4]

When going to the value of a variable you can't ramp.

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[Cyknight]

When going to the value of a variable you can't ramp.

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Well....not easily.

 

What you can do is store the level, then:

 

When [trigger]

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is LESS than [stored level]

--start timer [repeating 1 sec timer up]

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is MORE than [stored level]

--start timer [repeating 1 sec timer down]

 

When [repeating 1 second timer up] expires

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is lower than [stored level]

--[light] light level +10

--stop

Stop timer [repeating 1 second timer up]

 

When [repeating 1 second timer down] expires

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is higher than [stored level]

--[light] light level -10

--stop

Stop timer [repeating 1 second timer down]

 

This essentially creates a ramp option of 10% per second, and should get you close to the last level (you could do +1/-1 for an exact or +5/-5 for closer, but ramp times for large differences obviously go up the number 10 is just an example.

 

Yes I do some nutty programming in some rare instances, one using this was a basement suite using 40 or so light loads.

 

Realistically you'll just want to use advanced scenes. Create 6 scenes, say on - off, high - low, and medium high - medium low. Set up proper tracking for the scenes (this is the hard part) and use the pairs as toggles for each other (remember a scene's 'toggle' does NOT have to be an off scene - for that matter if you do want to use off, you do not need to create a separate toggle for all of them, be smart about your scenes, there are limits to how many scenes a single light can be part of).

 

Done properly, an average room/area needs no more than 4-6 scenes (and often less), trigger those exclusively and 'hide' individual lights (not completely just prevent easy access via buttons/switches) and you'll likely find that everyone's happy with the settings.

 

Panelized lighting and one '3-button' keypad for lighting in a room at each exit to/from that room (and maybe a bedside/counter - you get the idea) labeled: "on/off", "high/low", "med high/low" - it's a beautiful thing. Having direct control over every light in a room for daily use is overrated. I deal with places that have 10+ loads just in one average size room often (kitchens are bad for this, one recent one had 27 and no, it wasn't all that big at all) - it just creates confusion, irritation and in the end only 3-4 lights get used. If the dear lady of the house with the 27 load kitchen wasn't married already, I think she might have proposed to me once we fixed that mess and she now had sets of 3 buttons, neatly labelled and all working the exact same. (Big operation, moving lights to closets where possible and man those keypad dimmers come in handy).

 

This arguably is more true these days as these 'advanced scenes', with the current lighting, can be ramped via press and hold so there is still more control then just 6 settings.

[ericscales]

Well....not easily.

 

What you can do is store the level, then:

 

When [trigger]

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is LESS than [stored level]

--start timer [repeating 1 sec timer up]

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is MORE than [stored level]

--start timer [repeating 1 sec timer down]

 

When [repeating 1 second timer up] expires

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is lower than [stored level]

--[light] light level +10

--stop

Stop timer [repeating 1 second timer up]

 

When [repeating 1 second timer down] expires

IF [light] LIGHT_LEVEL is higher than [stored level]

--[light] light level -10

--stop

Stop timer [repeating 1 second timer down]

 

This essentially creates a ramp option of 10% per second, and should get you close to the last level (you could do +1/-1 for an exact or +5/-5 for closer, but ramp times for large differences obviously go up the number 10 is just an example.

 

Yes I do some nutty programming in some rare instances, one using this was a basement suite using 40 or so light loads.

 

Realistically you'll just want to use advanced scenes. Create 6 scenes, say on - off, high - low, and medium high - medium low. Set up proper tracking for the scenes (this is the hard part) and use the pairs as toggles for each other (remember a scene's 'toggle' does NOT have to be an off scene - for that matter if you do want to use off, you do not need to create a separate toggle for all of them, be smart about your scenes, there are limits to how many scenes a single light can be part of).

 

Done properly, an average room/area needs no more than 4-6 scenes (and often less), trigger those exclusively and 'hide' individual lights (not completely just prevent easy access via buttons/switches) and you'll likely find that everyone's happy with the settings.

 

Panelized lighting and one '3-button' keypad for lighting in a room at each exit to/from that room (and maybe a bedside/counter - you get the idea) labeled: "on/off", "high/low", "med high/low" - it's a beautiful thing. Having direct control over every light in a room for daily use is overrated. I deal with places that have 10+ loads just in one average size room often (kitchens are bad for this, one recent one had 27 and no, it wasn't all that big at all) - it just creates confusion, irritation and in the end only 3-4 lights get used. If the dear lady of the house with the 27 load kitchen wasn't married already, I think she might have proposed to me once we fixed that mess and she now had sets of 3 buttons, neatly labelled and all working the exact same. (Big operation, moving lights to closets where possible and man those keypad dimmers come in handy).

 

This arguably is more true these days as these 'advanced scenes', with the current lighting, can be ramped via press and hold so there is still more control then just 6 settings.

 

Cyknight, thanks so much.  This is exactly what I was looking for.  Honestly, I had never thought of hiding the lights and focusing strictly on the scenes.  I'm going to tinker with that this week, but I imagine that will really simplify my project.

[SMHarman]

and remember you can detatch the load from a dimmer or switch (there is a check box to do this in the properties) and turn it into a button so when you press the on or off that controls a scene on or off that includes that load.

[Cyknight]

Cyknight, thanks so much.  This is exactly what I was looking for.  Honestly, I had never thought of hiding the lights and focusing strictly on the scenes.  I'm going to tinker with that this week, but I imagine that will really simplify my project.

 You're welcome. This can sometimes take a bit to convince people on, many tend to focus on the amount of induvidual control too much, plus it's what everyone is used to. But every single time I've done this people love the end-functionality.

 

PS, you can also put all the lights in a single room (or a few such as basement, main 2nd or west wing/east wing) to still give the option to control single lights via screen interfaces as desired.

 

Yes, detaching the buttons is the way you would do this normally (my above example is an extreme example where it just needed to be universal everywhere because there was just too much - the electrician wiring it all sure made his money....)

[SMHarman]

Thank you, it makes a lot of sense and was how I was thinking about things, especially as all my LV lights will be DMX. With the two button keypads (or detached switches or dimmers) you can use the double / triple taps to work through the scenes as well.

Down = off

One Up = Room Scene Low

Double Up = Room Scene Medium

Triple = Room Scene High

 

I think it is likely easier to keep main ceiling lights on 110 and wired through wall switches so if there are C4/DMX/Networking problems I still have some lights and those lights will likely want specialty switches anyway (keypad dimmers / fan controllers etc).

[urbanmark]

Some really interesting programming ideas in this thread.   Cynight... thanks for sharing.   

 

Quick question, when a load is detached from a dimmer/switch, what happens when your controller is offline?  Does the dimmer/switch with load detached still function?

[msgreenf]

yes, the dimmer that is hardwired to the circuit works without the controller