RyanE Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Probably because vendor goes deal with Pro's to protect their investments.Next step would be lock each device to certain dealer and eliminate free agents support?And then required annual dealer certification (sure, not free)? Control4's ComposerPro training is 4 days, on-site. It's not something most people can just "pick up" by playing with it. Now, many people on these forums could likely manage it, since you're an above-average set of customers, but it's not really in Control4's best interest. Control4 at least does a few things that some of the previous residential Home Automation options don't: 1) Control4 provides ComposerHE, so homeowners can do their own programming, even if it's not full setup. 2) Control4 does provide the ability for a 3rd-party dealer to come in and take over a project. One (if not both) of the other mainstream HA offerings compile the programming onto the controller, and another dealer trying to come in and service a customer would somehow have to obtain the "source code" to the system, or re-create the entire project from scratch. Control4 has *never* done this, and has never even made any motions towards this sort of scenario. 3) Control4 *does* require dealer training and certifications (must maintain a certified programmer on staff, etc.), but if you only sell through dealers, your name and reputation are staked on the dealer. If the dealer doesn't know how to do it, Control4's reputation goes down. This is something that should be *expected*, and is a *plus* for homeowners. Before you paint Control4 "evil" with a broad brush, you should check out the facts. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Control4's ComposerPro training is 4 days, on-site. It's not something most people can just "pick up" by playing with it. Now, many people on these forums could likely manage it, since you're an above-average set of customers, but it's not really in Control4's best interest. Control4 at least does a few things that some of the previous residential Home Automation options don't: 1) Control4 provides ComposerHE, so homeowners can do their own programming, even if it's not full setup. 2) Control4 does provide the ability for a 3rd-party dealer to come in and take over a project. One (if not both) of the other mainstream HA offerings compile the programming onto the controller, and another dealer trying to come in and service a customer would somehow have to obtain the "source code" to the system, or re-create the entire project from scratch. Control4 has *never* done this, and has never even made any motions towards this sort of scenario. 3) Control4 *does* require dealer training and certifications (must maintain a certified programmer on staff, etc.), but if you only sell through dealers, your name and reputation are staked on the dealer. If the dealer doesn't know how to do it, Control4's reputation goes down. This is something that should be *expected*, and is a *plus* for homeowners. Before you paint Control4 "evil" with a broad brush, you should check out the facts. RyanE It is one of the biggest ++++++ that you can change the C4 dealer as you like - Thats fore sure! However having ComposerPro is quite nice either when I remember the old days with v 1.8, it was very nice for a tech-savvy guy like myself and in my case it was kinda nice for my dealer too because I could fix most issues by myself and that saved him a LOT of time - whole day trip to the place every time and a very bad Internet connection. Luckily today Internet is mote stable, good for both of us :-) I would just love a DIY "fee/flatrate" maybe due to the dealer for ComposerPro access as compensation for maybe missed revenue on a "if u break u gonna have to pay me for fixing it bases " - maybe someone thinks about that ;-) !? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 You guys are missing the point. There is no need to constantly defend the brand here. If you (meaning those with few posts) come on here you come here to learn, re-learn, troubleshoot or offer support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Control4's ComposerPro training is 4 days, on-site.But many of us here are using Composer HE that does 90%+ of what Composer Pro does with zero training. Or we have Comp Sci or Elec Eng degrees with years more programming experience than the pros. I am not denigrating the dealers, most of whom are excellent, I am just saying that many of us can handle it and have had Pro in the past when there was less security in the Pre 2.0 days. And it sounds like many non dealers have found ways to make it work with current versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Its no brainier, dealers worry about there investment - Understandable DIY`ER wish to play with and enjoy programming in there spare time. Both can live hand in hand and looking further down the line, dealers would get more work after a DIY`ER makes a mistake. Just charge a yearly fee for Pro, which WE pay to dealer and everyone is happy. PRO is not much different from HE, Just please let us be able to swap out a blu ray player or add Phillip hue light bulbs without having to call a dealer - You buy something on a Saturday, you like to have it up and running Saturday night - not 3 or 4 days latter when you are at work !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Its no brainier, dealers worry about there investment - Understandable DIY`ER wish to play with and enjoy programming in there spare time. Both can live hand in hand and looking further down the line, dealers would get more work after a DIY`ER makes a mistake. Just charge a yearly fee for Pro, which WE pay to dealer and everyone is happy. PRO is not much different from HE,Just please let us be able to swap out a blu ray player or add Phillip hue light bulbs without having to call a dealer - You buy something on a Saturday, you like to have it up and running Saturday night - not 3 or 4 days latter when you are at work !!!Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 But many of us here are using Composer HE that does 90%+ of what Composer Pro does with zero training. Or we have Comp Sci or Elec Eng degrees with years more programming experience than the pros. I am not denigrating the dealers, most of whom are excellent, I am just saying that many of us can handle it and have had Pro in the past when there was less security in the Pre 2.0 days. And it sounds like many non dealers have found ways to make it work with current versions.I have some empathy with those who wish to have full control of their system and I was one of those 3 years ago which was the initial reason we paid for the training then became a dealer but then grew a gold dealer business of the back of it. The point is any of you guys can do this too (certainly in the UK) and in the long run save money in the process by having the benefit of product at trade and the tools you desire - Just lateral think the thing through and there is normally a solution for everything if your prepared to invest time and money in something My hard hat is on and awaiting the onslaught of abuse and we want it for free comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The point is any of you guys can do this too (certainly in the UK) and in the long run save money in the process by having the benefit of product at trade and the tools you desire - Just lateral think the thing through and there is normally a solution for everything if your prepared to invest time and money in somethingBut for me this is a hobby, not a business and I have no interest in making it a business as I make good money with my existing job. I could pretend that I was going to become a dealer but then I would think that C4 would have minimum revenue requirements for a dealer. Have them start a prosumer category, charge for it, have online courses if you want, but let me change my own BluRay player without having to call a dealer, or install a driver that lets me send notifications to Prowl, or move an outlet switch from my living room to dining room or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm certainly not unsympathetic to the prosumer argument, but unfortunately, I'm also not the one who makes those sorts of decisions. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisraza1 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Damn i do good topics ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Its an old one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisraza1 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Its an old one,Only a weeks ... Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There are tons of posts on this topic. Just searchSent from my XT1060 using TapatalkIf you did the search its actually ....... ancient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If you did the search its actually ....... ancient Not really ancient, but nothing has changed. Don't you think there would be press releases or conversation on here if c4 changed there entire business model?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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