nocontrol Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi, I'm considering adding some z-wave devices into my system, and I'venoticed that the 2.6 press release claims that "over 100 drivers developed by Extra Vegetables" are now no charge in 2.6. Does anyone know whether that list includes the Extra Vegetables z-wave drivers (such as the vera2 driver and the z-wave relay driver)?Good news if z-wave is natively supported thru those free drivers.The press release: http://www.control4.com/press_releases/2014/09/10/control4-rolls-out-os-2-6-providing-enriched-streaming-audio-pool-and-spa-comfort-and-security-solutions-for-smart-homes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zariaman Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Yes it does. Works great, I do not notice any delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocontrol Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Great. I'm suprised this isn't big news, given that z-wave relays, plug in modules, dimmers are a fraction of the zigbee device prices. Yet there is no mention of z-wave in the 2.6 release notes? Speaking of relays, does anyone know of a z-wave relay device that can handle more than 2 outputs (I'm looking to control a bunch of low-voltage lighting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 2.6 doesn't DO Zwave, hence it's not in any software release info. It still requires a 3rd party device.The reason it isn't that big a deal is because the cheap zwave stuff is...cheap quality. Plus while the driver is now free -that was never a big hurdle anyway. Setting things up twice (ZWave AND then into C4 is where the cost difference dissapears - unless it's already in, or you can do the complete Vera setup yourself.Zwave as such works fine, but going via an extra step means linked keypad buttons etc WILL display some delay. It doesn't even depend on 2.6 at all by the way, the two events, 2.6 and EV purchase were just co-announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocontrol Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Thank you, I didn't realize the free drivers were importable into my 2.5.3 system. That's great news. The press release does specifically say the free drivers were "available with OS 2.6 installations", implying some sort of OS dependency... The free drivers enable z-wave interoperability. I don't see a point in making the distinction as to which device is actually transmitting the z-wave signals. The control4 hardware will have to process lua commands to send packets to the vera controller, so I would call that DOing part of the z-wave operations...With the vera controller at only $112, this is cheaper than a single zigbee relay, and probably cheaper than what a dealer would have charged for the necessary Extra Vegetables drivers. With 6 relays and 3 plug-in modules just for my landscape, I'll be saving $$ just for this one addition. As for cheap, I don't care if the z-wave is cheap plastic, it'll be hidden in closets and landscape transformers; my c4 touchscreens will be providing the interface Yes I can do the setup myself. As for speed, I don't know, I've just seen multiple posts that there is no noticeable delay. For interior lighting where the expectation is instant on, I might be concerned, but not so much for landscape lighting. (PS I currently sometimes have 1 second or so delays with zigbee for my interior lighting, so sticking with zigbee doesn't seem to get me speed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 LOL fair enough C4 doesn't BROADCAST ZWave.Oh I'm in no way telling people not use this option - it's switches and dimmer and locks where I find ZWave poor - but there's a lot of option out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocontrol Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 LOL fair enough C4 doesn't BROADCAST ZWave.Oh I'm in no way telling people not use this option - it's switches and dimmer and locks where I find ZWave poor - but there's a lot of option out there.Then I think I have your blessings as all my automated switches/dimmers are control4.Would like to hear specifics about which z-wave products to steer clear of. I know insteon hardware reliability has been a problem for me at my last place. Would be good to hear if leviton or ge or one of the other z-wave manufacturers is known for similar quality issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 You don't have it - if only because you don't need it. For those willing to invest their time to save some hard cash, ZWave lighting can certainly be a viable option - I've done a number of setups.In general I've found almost all ZWave switches and dimmers to be of lesser quality - with a handfull of exceptions, which were as expensive as C4's units are.That doesn't mean they're bad though. At least not all of them GE is one of the worst in my experience - I'd stay away from those, the last location I had these, they were removed from all bedrooms due to their humming, plus they were terrible as mesh devices making the locks essentially useless for automation (you simply couldn't trust them to be what they said they were, this in the ZWave controller - not C4). Linear has been very miss little hit.I've seen some minor issues with Insteon, very few with Leviton. Locks I don't like - the lack of proper security means you often have to bring the controller right on top of the lock (and I mean that literally!) to get it set-up and run it's security protocol, though once done they're generally allright. The need for that has me somewhat concerned to be honest. One of the most usefull things in Zwave are the many sensors, specialty controllers and so on that are out, such as wireless RGB controllers, flood sensors etc. Wiring remains cheaper (and better) - but somethimes things are forgotten, didn't even exist when houses were wired or sometimes you're just dealing with retro fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Oh! One thing I should mentioned for those reading this - keep a close eye on the ratings for ANY 'SMART' lighting - a lot of ZWave stuff peaks at 500w incandescent, some less than a 100w LED.Just something to keep an eye on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I am curious about Zwave for blinds. I have been wanting to grab a motor from rollertrol.com and a vera2 and see how reliable it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Meh - range is so durn poor. As such workable, but one of those things you notice the 'you get what you pay for' mantra may have some truth to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocontrol Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 The z-wave alliance claims the newer 5th gen/z-wave plus devices have "67% improvement in range".My gen 3 device range is nothing to brag about, and signal through materials such as metal seems tobe a problem. But there's always the aeon $25 repeaters when your range doesn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Meh - range is so durn poor. As such workable, but one of those things you notice the 'you get what you pay for' mantra may have some truth to it. With blinds so far, it isn't even the cost as much as it is the shit poor dealings with the company. (it is the cost too though. I would keep my relay driven blinds with no stop function over the somfy RTS at this point. I can get 7 motors for the price of 1 Somfy)Somfy is BRUTAL even to just talk to. They almost seem more interested in the blind/shade/curtain manufacturers than they are retailers and dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The z-wave alliance claims the newer 5th gen/z-wave plus devices have "67% improvement in range".My gen 3 device range is nothing to brag about, and signal through materials such as metal seems tobe a problem. But there's always the aeon $25 repeaters when your range doesn't work out.167% of nothing is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocontrol Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 167% of nothing is.... Hey, the stuff works for me. Just needed a couple repeaters for some backyard locations. Why spread FUD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 What FUD? I'm specifically talking about the blinds (well locks are the same), not everything else. Though the lack of range is not uncommon for many ZWave devices. Sure you can drop a dozen extender across the house - but who wants those sitting everywhere? Bridging a gap is one thing, but just had a client who had to add an extender at every 10 feet to be able to control her blinds (not in C4) - which is why I have nothing against ZWave or using ZWave within C4, I'm actually contemplating if I want to add some outlets to my own place - but I do point out that for some devices ZWave is a pain to use (usually due to range - I find locks are oten a pain) - especially because there ARE alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocontrol Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Something is wrong with your setup or hardware if you need a repeater every 10 feet. I had toadd a repeater to get signal to my concrete pool pit area but that's because it was around110 feet from my vera controller. I still have problems with my c4 panels sometimes not reflecting the correct on/off state of myz-wave devices. That seems to be an issue with the current c4 zwave driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Something is wrong with your setup or hardware if you need a repeater every 10 feet. I had toadd a repeater to get signal to my concrete pool pit area but that's because it was around110 feet from my vera controller. I still have problems with my c4 panels sometimes not reflecting the correct on/off state of myz-wave devices. That seems to be an issue with the current c4 zwave driver.Not mine - this was done by some 'high end home automation specialist'. We ripped it all out in this scenario, end-user getting blinds in a style he actually wanted and they worked too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Something is wrong with your setup or hardware if you need a repeater every 10 feet. I had toadd a repeater to get signal to my concrete pool pit area but that's because it was around110 feet from my vera controller. I still have problems with my c4 panels sometimes not reflecting the correct on/off state of myz-wave devices. That seems to be an issue with the current c4 zwave driver.I'd closely look at the Vera - it quite often isn't accurate on Blinds and Locks either - and C4 just gets the info from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackstone Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Z-Wave light biggest issue is feedback, only the higher-end Z-Wave dimmer will return a level feedback when you tap the rocker and even then, the feedback is delayed so we can't use that dimmer to program stuff other than "Turn on the light wired to it". The keypad are worst, they can only control scenes, it's not possible to get any push/release/click event from those keypad making them useless in most project where there is multiroom audio and a keypad is needed for easy local volume control. Insteon does not suffer those limitation, despite some negative experience we can read in forums, the modern Insteon stuff is much more reliable than first-gen modules of 2011 and older. With Insteon and Control4, you can get the full Control4 experience but without having to pay for expensive C4 switches and keypads. Insteon Keypad can act as a real multifunction keypad, it can ramp volume, activate a scene, turn the TV On and so on, Insteon dimmer react quickly and provide instant feedback of the current light level, a dimmer can also serve as a two-button keypad to program whatever you want through Control4. Keep on mind when using third party lightning to still add a few C4 switch or module around the house just to fortify the Zigbee network coverage and insure the Remote Control and door locks to work correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I am at similar point, homematic, zwave vor insteon lights and Sensors. Tough call, I wonder why there not any ZigBee compatible light switches!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukas.polivka Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think that Fibaro stuff is quite good. Dimmer (so far better experience than with DM201), single- and double-relay modules, jalousie module, RGBW LED module, nice outlet…Easy to setup up with their HCL controller but the driver for integration with Control4 is not free.Of course you can use Fibaro modules with a Vera controller – then you can use the free Control4 driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVHomeInstalls Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just bridged my C4 2.5.3 with Vera Edge for newer style Kwikset 916 z-wave door lock and DIY SmartThings home automation controller. The Smartthings is the Primary z-wave controller and Vera Edge a secondary. Using the MiCasa Vera C4 driver was pretty straight forward. Z-wave on the other hand was problematic with distance between devices discovering and passing security keys. End result is SmartThings and Control4 able to control the newer style Kwikset 916 lock and z-wave devices. Of course there is no management of door codes (pins) from C4 navigator. Control4 said they moved the door lock under Security with 2.6 or 2.7 release. Thats my next change because I still have legacy touch panels and using a Favorite to get to the House door lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just bridged my C4 2.5.3 with Vera Edge for newer style Kwikset 916 z-wave door lock and DIY SmartThings home automation controller. The Smartthings is the Primary z-wave controller and Vera Edge a secondary. Using the MiCasa Vera C4 driver was pretty straight forward. Z-wave on the other hand was problematic with distance between devices discovering and passing security keys. End result is SmartThings and Control4 able to control the newer style Kwikset 916 lock and z-wave devices. Of course there is no management of door codes (pins) from C4 navigator. Control4 said they moved the door lock under Security with 2.6 or 2.7 release. Thats my next change because I still have legacy touch panels and using a Favorite to get to the House door lock.Hi, so Vera Edge works with the current Vera driber ? I only got the answer "It is not documented to work so I won't recommend seting it up until otherwise reported to work" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ah you were using 2.5.3. Missed that, but maybe it word on 2.6+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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