spinny02 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Updated 6-12-15 with all comments Hi, I am about to get my first c4 system setup (HC-800& 5xHC-250). I have searched the forum for info on Lutron and C4 lighting solutions. I was bale to find a lot of great data on each. My question is since i am starting form scratch what are the advantages and disadvantages of each system? I would really appreciate your thoughts. Lutron:Advantage:Great looking switchIndependent, if i ever change home automation systems or sell homeCan communicate with c4Can find on eBay (at buyers risk)Can Take online class and download integration programSelf install - assuming you have electrical knowledge or pay an independent certified electrician to install Disadvantage:CostNeed another dealer to install Not native to C4 may have some minor bug with system comms C4 Dealer also needs to integrate could have double costsLess automated links / configuration with C4 system C4:Advantage:Native to system more cost efficient Ease of programing dimmer/keypads to do more than lights (music, garage doors, etc)Mesh Network - No RF repeaters requiredMesh Network - Add Zigbee sensors, additional TV rooms with just a remote, etc.Can mix panel lighting with conventional switch based lighting Disadvantage:Dealer only no much on the webCant change home automation systems look of switches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 You have figured out the right differences. Cost is the biggest. You'll have to pay a dealer to program the Lutron system then the C4 dealer to program into the automation system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Actually Radio Ra 2 is not that expensive compared to C4 if you buy online (was sig cheaper than c4 when i bought) - I bought an entire system (almost 90 devices) online and programed it myself. You can do the online course and get access to their software. The programming into C4 is where you will run into problems with - the driver is free through Houselogix but some dealers are charging quite a bit to just ID into C4. For my system it took the dealer around 2 hours to input the drivers and test the system. You could contact one of the online dealers in this forum and price it out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Actually Radio Ra 2 is not that expensive compared to C4 if you buy online (was sig cheaper than c4 when i bought) - I bought an entire system (almost 90 devices) online and programed it myself. You can do the online course and get access to their software. The programming into C4 is where you will run into problems with - the driver is free through Houselogix but some dealers are charging quite a bit to just ID into C4. For my system it took the dealer around 2 hours to input the drivers and test the system. You could contact one of the online dealers in this forum and price it out. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI did the same. RadioRA 2 looked much better to me in terms of look and price. Took the free online course, got access to the software, bought all the parts on eBay and various other sites at significantly less than set it up myself. After that, I bought Control4 equipment the same way (mostly new on eBay for half the price locals wanted), and had a remote integrator set it all up for me, including RadioRA 2 integration. Couldn't be happier, and saved a ton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 C4Future?Energy Reporting Advantage:Ease of programing dimmer/keypads to do more than lights (music, garage doors, etc)Mesh Network - No RF repeaters requiredMesh Network - Add Zigbee sensors, additional TV rooms with just a remote, etc.Can mix panel lighting with conventional switch based lighting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Advantage of Lutron : well known name in lighting and integrates with every automation system. The dealers here wont like this but the cost to outfit my entire house (90 plus dimmers and switches) was the same that was quoted to outfit a third of the house through C4. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Also if you ever happen to sell the house it might work better if you have a system that isn't tied down to one company..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You also need to understand that not all people would be able to program Lutron systems themselves. Good for you that you did. But you did buy all off eBay so no warranties, support, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDrPC Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 sorry to hijack but do you guys have the link to the free online course for RA2 programming? Can't find it. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You also need to understand that not all people would be able to program Lutron systems themselves. Good for you that you did. But you did buy all off eBay so no warranties, support, etc.Actually I was able to go directly to the local Lutron distributer (once I did the course) and get from them - so it is all legit and under warranty. Our electrician installed them when we built our house instead of whatever they were going to install.I agree that i may be in the minority that I felt comfortable programming myself. That however is the future of home automation.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 sorry to hijack but do you guys have the link to the free online course for RA2 programming? Can't find it. Thanks in advancewww.lutron.learn.comYou will need to set up an account and the links are in the website after you log on.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieumd Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 You also need to understand that not all people would be able to program Lutron systems themselves. Good for you that you did. But you did buy all off eBay so no warranties, support, etc. Actually, they do have warranties. eBay has new product from several online distributors at much less than local distributors. I even negotiated multi product discounts for a lot less than what they even posted. A RadioRA2 fan control failed almost a year later and was swapped our directly with Lutron with no issue, they didn't even ask for proof of purchase. Lutron support is very easy to work with. Even if I were to buy a used unit, I'm sure they'd swap it out if there was an issue. That said, Control4 was also very easy to work with on a warranty issue. I bought a used HC-800 that had a non working Zigbee antenna off of eBay for $500. My integrator called Control4, and it was out of warranty, which we knew. Since it was out of warranty, they offered to charge me $200 to fix it. I sent it in, and after they deemed the unit unfixable, they gave me a brand new HC-800 with full licenses, so for basically $700 I got a brand new HC-800 with full warranty and licenses. That was lucky, but even had they fixed it, I would have had a used, but tested and working, HC-800 with licenses for $700 which was still a deal. You just need a little patience and need to be willing to learn how to do a little of this stuff yourself and you can save a TON of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I don't want to get into a whole business model discussion again but if Apple or Microsoft had restricted access of their stuff to only dealers and wanted you to call a dealer for all programming then they wouldn't be selling any computers. Instead they educated people on how to use them and now Apple is close to a Trillion in valuation. This whole thing about the software is too difficult to use is ... and we all know it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4user3622 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Imagine having to go to a dealer to buy a copy of microsoft office and not being able to use it till they installed it and tested it. Does that make any sense?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstafford388 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Apple and microsoft are also massive companies that can handle the overhead of giant support staffs. Control4 uses dealers to provide the end user with support because they aren't capable of handling end user support themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinny02 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 All, Thanks for the replies. The main question was function, form, and cost. The Lutron still needs to be integrated by an authorized dealer, Many C4 dealers are also Lutron dealers so can be done at once. Thanks again for all the replies. I am going to spend time at the dealer showroom before i move on lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinny02 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 I update the table in the original post for quick reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poseidonsystems Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 These posts are from 2015 so hopefully I can update you all here. So the RadioRa2 lighting system is nice and great you can buy the switches on Ebay etc. But you need to have the INCLUSIVE software only a dealer has to program a system. YOU HAVE TO BE A DEALER TO INTEGRATE RADIO RA2 and requires a 3 day programming class and system authorization. These posts are all from 2015 so things have changed and you should be aware before you go buy on ebay and then look for the software link that basically does not exist for consumers. Another thing that you should keep in mind about the Radio Ra2 system is that you need a repeater for every 30 ft radius. You'll need a main repeater off the bat ($500) and then a repeater for every 30ft radius or so ($300 each). Once you've programmed it into the Lutron Radio Ra2 system, then you'll have to add/program them into the Control4 system and then assign them to zones, scenes, etc. With a Control4 lighting system, you have cool LED indicators on the lights that you can set to any color (lutron does not have this), and the software is native, which means from Control4 to the light itself, there's no delay. With a Lutron RadioRa2, depending on your project, you might see a delay of 1-3 seconds. This is the reality of what I've seen in the field. Also, the Control4 lights don't need a repeater for every 30 ft radius ($300 each from Lutron). It works off a mesh. And yes, you need a dealer to program all of this. So my advice is if you're doing lighting go with a Control4 system because the Lutron Radio Ra2 system is going to be more in the long run, trust me. This post came from 2015 and it's 2018 now and things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just want to make a correction here. You don't need Inclusive from Lutron.... Essentials is all you need unless you are using multiple main repeaters which most people don't. And you only need a second main repeater if going over 100 devices. I have a 6000 Sq Ft House with 1 main and 3 repeaters with my C4 and zero issues. All programmed with Essentials 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poseidonsystems Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Correction: You cannot add a switch/dimmer to essentials. You can only program what you have that was installed by a dealer that has inclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 What do you mean by "You cannot add a switch/dimmer to essentials" Are you saying you cant add a dimmer or switch to the essentials project? I Just created and programmed this entire system here in essentials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave w Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, poseidonsystems said: Correction: You cannot add a switch/dimmer to essentials. You can only program what you have that was installed by a dealer that has inclusive. That's not true. I just added two new dimmers with Essentials this morning. The only difference between Essentials and Inclusive is the number of devices (>100), the number of main repeaters (>1), and certain high load devices such as RMJ-16R-DV-B Powpak relay modules and such, that a common house is not likely to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 He made me try too even though I was positive LOL. I have been using essentials for ever creating projects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poseidonsystems Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 That's weird, I can't in essentials version 12.0.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 you don't have a design tab across the top like in my picture above? Should be DESIGN-PROGRAM-ACTIVATE-TRANSFER I'm using 12.0.1 You might want to reinstall it if you can't add devices. The only main difference between essentials and inclusive is if you need to go above 100 devices then you have to add a second main repeater. All other functions are the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.