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blub

Lighting which way to go ?

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Hi

I am seriously considering to add lighting to my setup.

However I live in Europe and the Control4 puck modules do hardly fit in my "square" wall boxes - depth of the box is 60mm, puck module has 21mm, light switch about 20mm plus cables and connectors it sometimes just doesn't fit( I have tried).

In addition the puck modules do not provide the same experience when operating like the NA models do - the standard switch in front would only flip up an down and stay in that position, so dimming can only be done via C4 GUI.

I don't get it why C4 did not make a "full" switch module..... Argh!

So after some research I did come up with:

KNX - because of wiring and central setup of actuators not an option

Homematic from ELV - widely used, relatively cheap. Medium reliability. Probably EOL with the new IP Version coming 2016, driver compatibility for the next gen. is unknown.

EnOcean - pricey, but seems to be reliable. Driver is available for the EnOcean Eltako products.

Zwave/+ - relatively cheap quality, might change with Zwave plus. Some stuff also doesn't fit in wall boxes (fibaro).

So what are you using or have installed for customers?

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Im using the old DIN-rail-system for some parts, puck-switches (not dimmer) for some and Z-wave for some parts.

When I'm going to add my next floor I will add more z-wave. If you install the Vera-system you can do alot of the install by yourself, and just have the dealer add the pieces in C4. Will keep cost to a minimum. Same if a switch goes dead, just change the switch and name it the same way in Vera, no need to call a dealer.

Then ofcourse, you have to do the install two times with z-wave, one in Vera and one in C4, twice the cost if you dont want to do it yourself.

Too bad you cant centralize, the new panel-lighting have some nice features.

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Im using the old DIN-rail-system for some parts, puck-switches (not dimmer) for some and Z-wave for some parts.

When I'm going to add my next floor I will add more z-wave. If you install the Vera-system you can do alot of the install by yourself, and just have the dealer add the pieces in C4. Will keep cost to a minimum. Same if a switch goes dead, just change the switch and name it the same way in Vera, no need to call a dealer.

Then ofcourse, you have to do the install two times with z-wave, one in Vera and one in C4, twice the cost if you dont want to do it yourself.

Too bad you cant centralize, the new panel-lighting have some nice features.

 

 

Ok, thx. Nope can't centralize that would be a major refit :D .

 

How reliable are your Zwave switches and dimmers?

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Ok, thx. Nope can't centralize that would be a major refit :D .

How reliable are your Zwave switches and dimmers?

No less than my C4-6-button keypad. That keypad is in the wrong state more often than my Z-wave (1-2 times/year). Usually after powerblackout.

I've only had the Vera-system for ap. 2 years, so cant say much about how they are in the long run. I had a problem with one device just this week, and that turned out to be me not naming the device the exact same way in Vera as my dealer did in C4 when renaming a room. Thats usually the types of issue for me, as I said, everything have to be written in two places in the exact same way.

I experience the range of the Vera-device-antenna to be shorter than C4-zigbee, so if your house is big that could be a problem. I had to move my Vera to a more central point in my house to get full coverage.

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If you are doing a complete new install and will change all your switches, Dejans gear seems to be pretty nice.

For me, ive invested too much in my fitted switches and dimmers so it hurts to much to just throw them away. Thats why I went the Zwave-way.

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I experience the range of the Vera-device-antenna to be shorter than C4-zigbee, so if your house is big that could be a problem. I had to move my Vera to a more central point in my house to get full coverage.

 

 

Isn't Zwave also a Mesh network and therefore coverage an placing of the hub should not matter?

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Mesh still works best/proper if the central location is at the HEART of the network, or the hop-count adds up too much. shorter per device range would mean more hops from a device further out to the controller - creating issues.

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I do remember Dejan's switches from 1-2 years ago by the time they weren't compatible with LEDs.

From the spec sheet they seem to be now, the only "drawbacks" I do see are:

 

  • no firmware upgrade - that could be an issue, it doesn't have to be but you never know
  • not dimmable at and under 10% - mhh thats fine with me, my STD LED dimmer can't dimm that low anyway so I am not missing out anything
  • the looks... just not my type :-)

 

Besides that they look similar to the C4 devices on the sheet with "ramp to in Xs" options. Pricing is 90€ which is ok and above Zwave products but way below C4 puck modules.

 

 

@DejanBG

 

  • Is it correct that the dimmer supports LED - I have dimmable Philips in the whole house
  • Are there compatible face plates?
  • Is there a youtube video showing these things in "action"

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Any idea why C4 puck dimmers are almost given away for free !?

 

http://www.automatedhomes.ie/index.php/store/sale-items/control4-wireless-puck-dimmer

 

Any insiders here who know if new models are coming?

 

 

For that price I really think about just buying some switches. I am sure I can make them fit somehow even though I don't know how 2- or 3-way setups can be achieved though.

 

The dimmers though are still no option since minimum load is 10w for LED's. My smallest setups have 8,8w.

 

EDIT: availability 1 ...damn :-)

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Can you not just change your switches for the configurable lighting keypads? Obviously they are J box size but you can easily convert a standard back box if you don't mind the shape.

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Can you not just change your switches for the configurable lighting keypads? Obviously they are J box size but you can easily convert a standard back box if you don't mind the shape.

Not 100% sure what you are saying but I think you mean exchanging my square wall boxes for US sized ones and just use the "normal" C4 switch and dimmers - correct?

Could be done but it is kinda messy to do with 50 boxes ...

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Not 100% sure what you are saying but I think you mean exchanging my square wall boxes for US sized ones and just use the "normal" C4 switch and dimmers - correct?

Could be done but it is kinda messy to do with 50 boxes ...

Yes, kind of. I meant the configurable lighting keypad, same as a regular dimmer or switch but also has 37 different button configurations so can be used for lots of other things too.

 

Agreed though, would be a big job to change 50!

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^ That was his point - the US sold model is 110v - but there are 240v versions available (which I assume he isn't aware of)

 

Yep those are available. I do not understand why such models are available in US format and not in european square-style....strange.

 

What is also strange is that the 240v models suck almost 2w where the 110v only use 1/3rd of power..also strange.

 

I really think C4 would have it much easier in the market with a better lighting option. I haven't come across any article in a magazine or serious HE blog her in Germany which talked about control4

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But you need 110v

Not for the keypads or dimmers/switchers for that matter. 240v in europe

^ That was his point - the US sold model is 110v - but there are 240v versions available (which I assume he isn't aware of)

Thank you Cy for the translation of the rest of my thought that clearly did not hit the page.

Yes. You cannot just connect the 110v keypads to a European wall code compliance be damned as the magic Electrical smoke fairy would appear and poof the magic smoke that makes them work would appear then disappear. You need a 230 nominal version.

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Hi Blub

Respond to your questions

Yes we update firmware and hardware.

We have new zigbee chip in our devices 2 times faster than before 2 years.

Dimmer is tested with all known Brands also with China no name led bulbs and is working

Difference be twin C4 I DIM-M1 is size this can fit in standard f60 European standard box.

Also you can fit two device in f60

I just finish project with Philips led Dimmable and we use 60 devices and all is working perfect

You can chose face plates from colours to materials if you prefer wood or metallic look you have on web page to check or I can send you catalog

Video I will send you on mail

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Hi Blub

Respond to your questions

Yes we update firmware and hardware.

We have new zigbee chip in our devices 2 times faster than before 2 years.

Dimmer is tested with all known Brands also with China no name led bulbs and is working

Difference be twin C4 I DIM-M1 is size this can fit in standard f60 European standard box.

Also you can fit two device in f60

And price is for end user Iz 78 Eur

I just finish project with Philips led Dimmable and we use 60 devices and all is working perfect

You can chose face plates from colours to materials if you prefer wood or metallic look you have on web page to check or I can send you catalog

Video I will send you on mail

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Sound good so far. Do you have a PDF for the catalog of faceplates and available colors?

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What is wrong with Rako?

 

Probably the best retro-fit solution out there and will work with C4 without any issues.

 

Not found anything that works better with a house already wired

 

Jason

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