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Annual Fees


DougB

Question

Currently in the US and I have received an annual license fee to all me to operate controls from my cell phone.

I do not recall having a license fee at our London residence.  Do countries have different requirements for this fee?

What is your understanding for US   and    UK?  Thanks.

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13 answers to this question

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2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Nah - you don't want to pay to HAVE security. At All.

i dont get your meaning. how can i pay to have c4 actually change the root password on the box? there's been a proof of concept online for years that's still open. how about the weak cipher cert there too? seems they could actually put some effort into some real security for their systems. what is it that i can pay for to fix these mistakes? 

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6 hours ago, Christopher Spitler said:

i dont get your meaning. how can i pay to have c4 actually change the root password on the box? there's been a proof of concept online for years that's still open. how about the weak cipher cert there too? seems they could actually put some effort into some real security for their systems. what is it that i can pay for to fix these mistakes? 

Clearly you don't get my meaning no.

You don't pay C4 to change the root password - you could pay a dealer though. Protection of the system should be via the network and internet interface it's on - not via opening ports on your router which is against any and all proper security conventions - no matter how well protected whatever is behind it.

You're looking for a way to have 'secure' remote access via having a company close a gap you are wanting to open up in the first place. The proof of concept I assume you speak of is a non-proof because it's something you shouldn't even do in the first place - even if they secured it more tightly than fort Knox.

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8 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Clearly you don't get my meaning no.

You don't pay C4 to change the root password - you could pay a dealer though. Protection of the system should be via the network and internet interface it's on - not via opening ports on your router which is against any and all proper security conventions - no matter how well protected whatever is behind it.

You're looking for a way to have 'secure' remote access via having a company close a gap you are wanting to open up in the first place. The proof of concept I assume you speak of is a non-proof because it's something you shouldn't even do in the first place - even if they secured it more tightly than fort Knox.

i wouldn't pay a dealer to do any sysadmin work. especially as root on a controller. and changing root password breaks things on the controller as it turns out, primarily performing upgrades. 

you are clearly misunderstanding the point here. i do pay for 4sight, and i use it regularly. look at the post you skipped over about the gear i'm using to secure my network, and while you're at it, feel free to look me up and see what i do for a living. i was explaining to the OP that you are able to get this working, *securely*, without 4sight, and it's more secure than what c4 provides through 4sight (based on their weak ciphers and keys). 

 i'm not here to start forum arguments, and my point was clear: c4 can do much better at security of their systems, whether it has to relate to 4sight or not, and they clearly choose not to.

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wouldn't pay a dealer to do any sysadmin work. especially as root on a controller. and changing root password breaks things on the controller as it turns out, primarily performing upgrades.

Oh you can change those root passwords just fine if you do it right,

The fact that you're unwilling to let a dealer do that work is your own problem and decision.

Quote

and while you're at it, feel free to look me up and see what i do for a living.

Nah - I don't need to know what you do for a living at all, and if you expect me to be impressed by anyone going 'look at me and my...' understand that to me at least it will accomplish quite the opposite.

 

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i'm not here to start forum arguments

Oh come now. : "c4 can do much better at security of their systems" is presented as a statement of fact. Thus a statement up for argument. Especially as you present no specific arguments on it's validity.

Unless of course you would like to claim to be infallible in such matter?

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We charge $150 for a renewal of 4sight and here is why.  The 4sight License has an MSRP from Control4 of $99.  Which means if you called Control4 and told them that you had no dealer nor wanted a dealer, there might just be a chance they would charge you $99. and apply a new License Code to your account.  However - thats NOT what we are doing.   We are selling a renewal for $150. which includes the 4sight License as well as an upgrade of your OS to the latest version.  For us, we have enforced this so in most cases of the customers who have not subscribed to a maintenance plan, they might be running 2-3 OS versions behind - but not typically a big deal.  The 4sight Renewal gets them updated to the lasted OS Ops.  Now maybe you dont care if you are running the latest opps and maybe the features or functions of the newer version doesn't provide you with any new value - it doesn't mater to us.  WHEN you do have a problem with your system you are going to go out and search for someone to connect and help you out - maybe your issue can be fixed remotely - maybe it cant and you need a site visit - regardless, the first thing most companies would do is to update your OPs and OS because the root of your issue could be a bug in the Operating System that was fixed a couple Ops Prior.  So Im billing an extra $50 for my time for the following:

 1) I have to Connect to your system.  2) I have to document and save your current program.  3) I than push the updated OS to your system (assuming i didnt find anything not compatible).  4) I have to wait for the update to be applied to your main controller, than wait for each of the Zigbee Devices to Receive their Updates as the Controller would push the new version to all the Zigbee Devices. 5) I have to log back into your newly updated controller and verify that all hardware is back online and devices are running the latest version.  6) Update my records and docs that your system has been brought up to date and is running well.

Assuming there are no issues (ha, imagine that) than if im a fairly good multitasker I probably invested 30-40mins doing this.  

So for all that I get $50.  There is NO profit in doing this.  However keeping out clients systems running as smoothly as possible has its positive side effects.   For the record, Control4 isnt giving these licenses away for Free to their Dealers.  This isnt APLLE or SAMSUNG and you dont get Automatic Updates to all your devices for free on the fly as there is just too much that could go wrong if updated unsupervised.  We believe that a $150 charge is a gift for assuming ownership of whats done above.  

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if c4 had better auth scheme, then i could edit my ACLs and expose it to the internet. but it doesn't, b/c c4 doesn't care about security. at all. 

regardless, you can always set up a VPN tunnel (i use an ASA 5512x) and set the subnet to "dial on demand" when on your phone. however, the ASA will run you around $10k, and you'll probably trash your c4 system by the time it pays off not subscribing to 4sight hehe

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