jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 17 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Except that it isn't really - but you have to be/have someone knowledgeable enough to do it first, and be able to sell it (and properly estimate time) second. That's where the problem is, neither is all that easy to 'do'. If that's really the case, then it's even harder for me to understand why there isn't more emphasis on services. As for estimating, I agree it's a science. But not being able to do it well is either laziness or lack of education/experience. My estimates of what good installer should take on my project have been almost dead on, which is why I now usually request time and materials. I paid way more for labor in my initial project than I should have - either because of poor estimating or as a way for the dealer to inflate the profit margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 55 minutes ago, jfh said: I would submit that folks with a technical or programming background would generally need to use tech support far less than many dealers do now and would be able to do a lot of the initial legwork that C4 support does now. Except you've never been involved in the troubleshooting and technical support that most dealers do now, so you can't really form this opinion objectively without experiencing it. Also, how would you license Composer Pro only to those with a technical or programming background? Require an IQ test? Submit your CompTIA certs? A copy of your diploma? funnyfarm299 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 I have talked to enough current C4 installers/programmers to form the opinion hat my generalization is more correct than not. I have also had a support manager tell me that I know more about C4 troubleshooting and programing than most of his guys after he has seen what I have done first hand. As for the licensing requirements, I would leave that up to Control4 to determine. Since my idea would involve education / certification provided by C4, if you take the education and pass the certification or whatever testing they deem appropriate, that should be enough. And I would hope that there would be ongoing recertification as the technology changes. This is not a new concept - software companies have been doing this for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 9 hours ago, jfh said: But it seems like the only ones that don't think there's a problem are those that have Pro Much like the ones that think there's a problem don't have it? This is a discussion that just goes in cycles because there IS no 'right or wrong' - just opinion and want. funnyfarm299 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Lol. Agreed x2. Until someone at corporate figures out that the status quo isn't going to drive the growth C4 needs to become anything other than a niche player and/or that the Pro issue inhibits rather than enables new business I don't expect anything to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StroTek LLC Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 PM Sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 21 hours ago, jfh said: Lol. Agreed x2. Until someone at corporate figures out that the status quo isn't going to drive the growth C4 needs to become anything other than a niche player and/or that the Pro issue inhibits rather than enables new business I don't expect anything to change. And as such you keep claiming to know better than C4's board of directors, stakeholders and so on. You keep stating opinion as fact. Reminds me of a politician... msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 On 6/1/2016 at 2:21 PM, jfh said: As for the licensing requirements, I would leave that up to Control4 to determine. Control4 has already determined the licensing requirements for Pro. Sadly, that requirement is currently that you become a Control4 dealer. RyanE msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 My statement is clearly an opinion, not a fact. It will be up to the company to determine if it becomes fact. I am a huge C4 fan, but given Its' performance to date as a public company and its current struggles, it's one of the few companies that make products I really like I currently wouldn't consider investing in. I have some experience in certain aspects of the business that seem problematic, but certainly don't know more about C4!s business than the Board of Directors (nor do I claim to). However, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, RyanE said: Control4 has already determined the licensing requirements for Pro. Sadly, that requirement is currently that you become a Control4 dealer. RyanE I understand those are the current requirements. I was responding to a question of how I would expect licensing to be handled if C4 offered a training and certification program to non-dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Kilpatrick Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I am looking to get trained/certified in a Smart Home platform in order to secure a job in a private home which is a requirement for the job. This is a high end client and I must know the ins and outs of the program. I just can't seem to find the right training for someone if they don't want to become a dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 18 hours ago, Michael Kilpatrick said: I am looking to get trained/certified in a Smart Home platform in order to secure a job in a private home which is a requirement for the job. This is a high end client and I must know the ins and outs of the program. I just can't seem to find the right training for someone if they don't want to become a dealer. You won't find any - there is none. Frankly no sane home owner will require you to know how to program a smart home system to secure a job in a house hold - nor can they expect you to know how to operate any single smart home system - you wouldn't even be able to know the 'all the ins and outs' of any individual home if you've been a dealer since Control4 (or any other system) has existed BECAUSE ANY INDIVIDUAL SYSTEM WOULD BE DIFFERENT. You would be perhaps quicker to figure it out, but you'd still have to work/live there first. Even if this is not a private 'home' but something like a 'private home for xxxx (seniors, fill in whatever fits)' it's completely unreasonable. So...yeah, if your job would be in part to program the smart home system, assuming it's C4 (or Crestron, Savant, ELAN, etc) than no such thing exists. If Elon, Jeff, Bill or Donald really wants an in-house programmer, I'm sure they could talk to Control4 about getting someone trained up, but there wouldn't be any way for you to already have that ability prior to becoming their butler Now, if knowledge of how to use/tweak program using CompsoerHE is what you're looking for - then you'd be spending a few weeks browsing these forums (and finding the link to some of the (paid? not sure anymore) online training on of the dealers on here has made) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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