Control4 announces Amazon Echo integration

[Cyknight]

Just now, chopedogg88 said:

I'm just simply pointing out a few differences...not really grasping at straws, if those things happen to be important to you, then they are important to you.  But I see how you could perceive it that way.

1) Right, but ours does...now.

2) I know many customers that have no interest in paying for 4sight, while most other smart home providers give remote access/cloud capabilities for free.  So for those people, it can become a financial decision.  Only 20% of our customers use it.

3) Yes, and our driver does that too...but at least you have the option of separating them out if you want to with ours.  Both options have validity.

I am not sad at all...in fact I've known this was coming since this past winter when Control4 reached out to us in the hopes of purchasing our source code "to save themselves a couple days of development work" (for pennies I might add...).  I don't think that our effort was lost or turned to dust...it has helped to pave the way for Alexa voice control with Control4, has enhanced 1000's of people's lives over the past year, and has been very financially rewarding...far from dust...in my humble opinion 

Regarding resources, yes they may have expended more in terms of quantity...but perhaps not quality? (our driver was created by an Ivy League grad with 20 years in the software industry, teamed up with another very successful entrepreneur worth a lot of $$) ..and in the end, it took them a long time to essentially just copy our driver's functionality to a great degree, with some new functionality, and some lost functionality.  Hopefully over time they will make improvements that will blow our minds...but at this point we are all pretty limited by what Amazon will allow.

1) Yeah..so does C4's.

2) Yep, Boohoo

 

As for your resource - I hate to say it, really I do - but if you thing that's an impressive 'resume'.....

There is ONE big difference between your solution and C4's - the latter is done with an intended cooperation with the Echo team. Make of that what you will.

 

I'm happy to hear you've made your money back at least.

Now I'm curious to see if those that bought your driver have their own humble opinion about  having payed for a product you apparently were aware was going to be obsolete in months?

 

As for being limited to what Amazon allows - true enough, it's why I'm not brimming with excitement at all yet.

[chopedogg88]

"Haters gonna hate!"

Our product is not really obsolete, nor did we know that Control4 would actually ever actually release anything in the end.  Clearly if you are so smart as you seem think you are, you would know that not all product ideas actually come to fruition (in fact, the majority do not).  In that case, you would also probably have something better to do with your time than to troll the c4forums and dealer forums all day long, busting people's chops and acting like you are the authority on everything known to mankind.  Maybe spend some time with your wife and kids or something?  Perhaps you judge people's resume based on their forum reputations or something of the sort?  Or how many years they have been pulling speaker wires?

Regarding making money back...absolutely $0 was spent to make this driver...just a little smarts and elbow grease...so I'm not sure what you think you are talking about.  Clearly you don't.

 

[jfh]

10 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Now I'm curious to see if those that bought your driver have their own humble opinion about  having payed for a product you apparently were aware was going to be obsolete in months?

 

I, for one, have no regrets.  I've had the benefit of voice control for almost a year (10 months?) before C4 released the Alexa skill and that was worth more to me than the cost of the driver.   And, unless/until C4 expands the functionality of the skill and further integrates it, I don't have any new function, only hope that this is the beginning, not the entire solution.  (The C4 skill requires a little less work/programming to implement, but so far I haven't seen anything the skill can do I can't do with the ES driver).

 

Now, if I had bought VoicePod a couple years ago, as I had originally planned, I'd be upset ...

[South Africa C4 user]

So, I see that the documentation says the Control4 skill won't work outside the USA... it is working perfectly for me in South Africa. C4/Amazon, please don't turn me off!

Definitely a great new skill. I am back to using 3 drivers / skills for voice control and it is great.  I really like what C4 has done as so much control happens with no extra programming. I have no doubt this will get lots of upgrades over the years.

[wappinghigh]

50 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

"Haters gonna hate!"

Our product is not really obsolete, nor did we know that Control4 would actually ever actually release anything in the end.  Clearly if you are so smart as you seem think you are, you would know that not all product ideas actually come to fruition (in fact, the majority do not).  In that case, you would also probably have something better to do with your time than to troll the c4forums and dealer forums all day long, busting people's chops and acting like you are the authority on everything known to mankind.  Maybe spend some time with your wife and kids or something?  Perhaps you judge people's resume based on their forum reputations or something of the sort?  Or how many years they have been pulling speaker wires?

Regarding making money back...absolutely $0 was spent to make this driver...just a little smarts and elbow grease...so I'm not sure what you think you are talking about.  Clearly you don't.

 

I am so not up to speed on all this.

So have you guys done another driver already...?

Does your driver work outside the US? (where  this C4 one doesn't)?

Where do I get your driver?

Thanks

 

[Gene]

6 hours ago, Cyknight said:

I'm...trying to read it like that - but I'll have to take your word for it

6 hours ago, jfh said:

 

The 3.5mm was to connect the Echo Dot to the matrix.  I think he was saying since Sonos and Echo were now supported by C4, maybe you could have the Dot audio some how "passed" through the Sonos, which is presumably already connected to the matrix.

 

I would think that if the echo can do bluetooth etc...(or even the 3.5mm) C4 would have integrated the audio capabilities back to a matrix or directly to a controller (for streaming the audio playback of the echo) to be controlled through a driver....  That has not happened. There is little if any control other than the setup within 4sight which is basically configuring voice not extending C4 capabilities with the echo.

 

[zaphod]

5 hours ago, wappinghigh said:

I am so not up to speed on all this.

So have you guys done another driver already...?

Does your driver work outside the US? (where  this C4 one doesn't)?

I think the issue outside of the US is that the Echo/Dot/Alexa are not officially supported.  But most features seem to work fine, other than stuff like Amazon Prime Music that isn't available outside of the US. At least that is the case here in Canada but since we are the same time zone(s) as the US it is probably easier to use a proxy location that is pretty close - I live in Toronto but I can tell it that I live in Buffalo.  When you see "Alexa - What's the weather forecast" then I will get the Buffalo forecast as the default.  But you could ask "What is the weather forecast for Toronto" and I will get my local forecast.  But some of this may not work so well in places like SANZA on the other side of the world.

[wappinghigh]

^ Hey thanks for that! 

[zaphod]

This likely isn't a C4 system, more of a generic Echo/Dot question but do you need at least one Echo to act as the "master" for your system or can you just have one or more Dots in your system?

[Bsmall423]

30 minutes ago, zaphod said:

This likely isn't a C4 system, more of a generic Echo/Dot question but do you need at least one Echo to act as the "master" for your system or can you just have one or more Dots in your system?

You can just have one dot. or 6. or 40.

[Cyknight]

8 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

"Haters gonna hate!"

Our product is not really obsolete, nor did we know that Control4 would actually ever actually release anything in the end.  Clearly if you are so smart as you seem think you are, you would know that not all product ideas actually come to fruition (in fact, the majority do not).  In that case, you would also probably have something better to do with your time than to troll the c4forums and dealer forums all day long, busting people's chops and acting like you are the authority on everything known to mankind.  Maybe spend some time with your wife and kids or something?  Perhaps you judge people's resume based on their forum reputations or something of the sort?  Or how many years they have been pulling speaker wires?

You should be able to tell quite clearly that I'm not claiming to be an authority on everything, or even anything, on either.

You might be able to tell that I'm not usually impressed, and yes, irritated, by people flinging around 'resumes' or 'experience' (and that includes and 'forum status' - with proof or without, to prove a point.

I happen to feel that if you need to 'show your resume' as a counter argument - you've lost the argument. It comes across to me as if you've got no actual counter argument to make.

Quote

Regarding making money back...absolutely $0 was spent to make this driver...just a little smarts and elbow grease...so I'm not sure what you think you are talking about.  Clearly you don't.

Err. And time spent is now not not an investment?

Quote

"Haters gonna hate!"

Yes, just because I disagree with someone - that person is liable to become hateful. Happens all the time.

[Gary Leeds UK]

Echo and Dot being launched in the UK !!!

Released on the 28th September - Mine is on order

[am350z]

Can someone help me understand how you implement the Echo with C4.  A few dot's spread through out the house and one in control closet for network connection and  connection to matrix audio?  Do the dots communicate with each other, by which I mean if I speak to the kitchen dot, the closet dot will be able to activate appropriate audio in programming?  Or are people just planning on using the bigger Echo with speakers and communication to C4 via the network.  Sorry if this is basic info, haven't delved into the echo environment yet!

[Bsmall423]

1 minute ago, am350z said:

Can someone help me understand how you implement the Echo with C4.  A few dot's spread through out the house and one in control closet for network connection and  connection to matrix audio?  Do the dots communicate with each other, by which I mean if I speak to the kitchen dot, the closet dot will be able to activate appropriate audio in programming?  Or are people just planning on using the bigger Echo with speakers and communication to C4 via the network.  Sorry if this is basic info, haven't delved into the echo environment yet!

No, the dots dont communication. They run as separate devices, without any knowledge of each other (with the exception of near field echo communication so that they all dont listen at the same time.) You run 3.5mm audio cables (either 3.5mm to 2 rca or 3.5mm to cat6 and then cat6 to 2 rca) back to your audio matrix. 

[vstar]

16 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said:

Echo and Dot being launched in the UK !!!

Released on the 28th September - Mine is on order

no luv for Canada

[am350z]

24 minutes ago, Bsmall423 said:

No, the dots dont communication. They run as separate devices, without any knowledge of each other (with the exception of near field echo communication so that they all dont listen at the same time.) You run 3.5mm audio cables (either 3.5mm to 2 rca or 3.5mm to cat6 and then cat6 to 2 rca) back to your audio matrix. 

Yikes, so separate audio output from each dot all the way to control closet.  That would be difficult.  So I suppose if you can't get a separate audio line to the matrix, one would just use the built in speaker.

[Cyknight]

44 minutes ago, vstar said:

no luv for Canada

I suspect Echo will not be here until Amazon's music service is here - which, depending on our lovely CRTC and their outdated rules and regulations in a market of international streaming services, may be never.....

[Bsmall423]

1 hour ago, am350z said:

Yikes, so separate audio output from each dot all the way to control closet.  That would be difficult.  So I suppose if you can't get a separate audio line to the matrix, one would just use the built in speaker.

Correct, you dont want your dot to broadcast audio through the whole house speakers, but you want it to play over the speakers in the room you are in. You can also play pandora, etc through the dot, which would free up an audio input.

[Sailz]

Given this increased integration and partnership with Amazon, does anyone know if there is now a better native driver for control over Amazon FireTV boxes?

Dealer is currently finding drivers buggy for gen 1 and gen 2 Firetv box.

 

[South Africa C4 user]

4 hours ago, zaphod said:

I think the issue outside of the US is that the Echo/Dot/Alexa are not officially supported.  But most features seem to work fine, other than stuff like Amazon Prime Music that isn't available outside of the US. At least that is the case here in Canada but since we are the same time zone(s) as the US it is probably easier to use a proxy location that is pretty close - I live in Toronto but I can tell it that I live in Buffalo.  When you see "Alexa - What's the weather forecast" then I will get the Buffalo forecast as the default.  But you could ask "What is the weather forecast for Toronto" and I will get my local forecast.  But some of this may not work so well in places like SANZA on the other side of the world.

Quite correct. My Alexa thinks I am in Seattle... but if I ask "what is the time in Johannesburg" she gets it spot on. Ditto for weather.  More importantly, I bought Alexa for C4 integration and she works great with Ari's driver, Alan's driver, VoicePod (RIP) and now with this Control4 skill so I am a happy camper!

[vstar]

1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

I suspect Echo will not be here until Amazon's music service is here - which, depending on our lovely CRTC and their outdated rules and regulations in a market of international streaming services, may be never.....

sad but very true

Alexa will also most likely also have to learn French I am sure before she will be allowed to enter Canada

 

[msgreenf]

47 minutes ago, vstar said:

Alexa will also most likely also have to learn French I am sure before she will be allowed to enter Canada

i guess I won't be admitted back in Canada again...lol...

[zaphod]

32 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

I suspect Echo will not be here until Amazon's music service is here - which, depending on our lovely CRTC and their outdated rules and regulations in a market of international streaming services, may be never.....

Apparently you can use them here and pretty much everything does work.  In terms of the music service, etc - is this that much different than Netflix and Canada was Netflix's second market.  And to be honest, it isn't usually the CRTC that keeps them away, it is that they need to sign separate licensing deals in Canada for all of the content.

I don't know if things had changed but I know that you could use Amazon Prime Video with a service like Unblockus - I don't know that I ever tried.  But as long as it had Spotify I wouldn't need Amazon Prime for music.

[Cyknight]

28 minutes ago, zaphod said:

 And to be honest, it isn't usually the CRTC that keeps them away, it is that they need to sign separate licensing deals in Canada for all of the content.

No it's the CRTC, Canada is a big enough market to warrant the added licensing. EVERY country needs to have this done, it's no different for the UK or Germany (to mention the two announced market of 'Alexa'). The problem is that the CRTC regulates the licensing allowing you to sell any form of music or tv experience within Canada at all - and has some very strict rules.

When this is then requested, the usually demand a % of content is Canadian - scaled (for whatever reason) in part to the type of content. This is similar to their demands to Canadian Broadcasters doing the same thing - this includes for example Canada's SiriusXM.

On top of an overal%, there are often demands for specific types of media or music to have separate %'s. Jazz, for some reason, has a higher relative % than some other music. See how this is becoming a rather murky business model?

On top of that, though the stated limit is 30% of overall content, they generally in negation license at 40% overall.

Chances are that the bigger players can negotiate and force lower % (they have been) - but at best it makes it a PAIN for these companies to arrange this.

Yes other countries have setups too, but Canada's is one of the worst to have to deal with.

Netflix, while present in Canada - is also a rather different service, and have a look at what they actually DO have for their line-up in available content - and how much of it is 'Canadian' (a rather murky definition on it's own within these rules).

So sure - the need for licensing content is one part of why services aren't just instantly available in Canada as well - but it's the CRTC that handles the licensing for broadcasting anything at all.

It isn't impossible at all, but this extra 'layer' of licensing and demands, and the CRTC is known for being headstrong and not easy to negotiate with, makes it so Canada is not an easy market to get into...and that means it's not likely to be the first focus. It took...14 years for Rhapsody (in the form of Napster) to come back to Canada in 2015?

[am350z]

3 hours ago, Bsmall423 said:

Correct, you dont want your dot to broadcast audio through the whole house speakers, but you want it to play over the speakers in the room you are in. You can also play pandora, etc through the dot, which would free up an audio input.

Too bad.  If they communicated, it would be nice to have one centrally located and connected to the audio matrix and sort what rooms speakers respond to commands in programming.  As is, it would be way to difficult to run rca cables back to control closet from all the locations I would install a dot.