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ERDrPC

Best Add-ons/3rd party hardware?

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We are in the procurement phase of my large install. I've been reading this forum for years in preparation...I know, get a life right!!

I'd like to keep everything away from the cloud. 

I hope someone can help fill in the blanks or provide experience. I'd love everything to have IP control. I have a synology 715+ NAS with a bunch of backed up Blu-rays. Using JAP for video distribution to 6 TVs. Every room has a in-wall TS along with table top for bar area. HR260 for each TV. 

4KUHD - 2 x Oppo 203 (one local fed back to rack via JAP and one rack distributed out) - C4 has a IP driver

HTPC/Streaming - required sources - Netflix 4k HDR, Amazon prime 4k HDR, Vudu HDX for ultraviolet; required audio - Atmos if available; Need two of whatever we go with as three adults and child in our home

1. Roku Ultra - has universal search, easy to integrate, only atmos thru Vudu, ethernet. How easy is it to navigate between apps or enter using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android  or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

2. HTPC - I have a current 1U rackmounted HTPC - this would need to be upgraded for 4K HDR and HDMI 2.0a/b. No universal search. Control thru USB dongle. Kodi or Plex. 

3. Bolt + OTA - I'm in Canada so only the OTA version is useful for me. I cannot find control options/driver using C4? The OTA is not 4k ready ie is not ATSC 3.0. It has Ethernet and universal search. Has all the streaming sources including plex for backups.  

4. Kaleidescape  - best hardware and polished on screen display, no streaming, no TV shows, not all the studios yet, cannot play backed up sources 

5. NVIDA shield - has universal search - ? voice only; has all the sources. I cannot find control options/driver using C4?  How easy is it to navigate between apps using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

Garage door control - 3 x liftmaster 8500. I think I'm stuck with MyQ and their wireless bridge. I wish I could have this hardwired like my current opener is

Generator - I've seen some programming on this site. Looking at Generac 48KWQs or 60kW vs Eaton 45 kW vs Briggs & Stratton 48kW. Anyone have any feedback or tips?

Irrigation - want smart watering with ideally ethernet connection

1. Rachio - gen 2- cloud based - would rather not use wifi

2. IrrigationCaddy - hardwired - local control, no smart features

3. Rainmachine - touch hd-12 - wifi only

4. other suggestions?

IP Camera and NVR - we will have 12 camera's. 4 to 6 will be Samsung 4k at 30 FPS and the others will be 3 or 4MP 1080P at 30 FPS camera

1. 4k - Samsung PNV-9080R

2. 3MP - Samsung  SNV-7084R or Hikvision DS-2CD4535FWD-IZH/DS-2CD4535FWD-IZH8

3. NVR - my installer is not happy with the Hikvision NVR. We are looking for an NVR that we can tie into C4. The cameras will be going into a cisco POE switch. H.265 with 4K support would be great for the main feed security recording and H.264 sub-stream at 1080p or 720p for the C4 TS/onscreen. Samsung has a NVR but it's $7000 CDN. I believe the C4 system can pull the sub-stream independent of the NVR...is this correct?

Surge Control & UPS

I live in the GTA and Torus power is willing to sell me a AVR2 60BAL direct. However my installer doesn't believe the hype with Torus. I believe Torus allows for IP control and individual power cycling.  He installs panamax. I'm looking for undercurrent/overcurrent/surge/etc protection for the rack. Torus is suggesting 240V in and 240V out into a large UPS to allow for all the cisco/ruckus/C4 equipment to be protected.  Anyone care to chime in with suggestions? Tripp Lite makes a large battery backup UPS SU6000RT4UTF. Again my installer uses someone else. 

Door video intercom

Why can't C4 license crestron's SIP protocol or further develop their own. Elan has their own which allows real-time video doorstation chats. Doorbird is crippled as there are only two active streams and once one picks up the others cannot join/listen. I've looked at Holovision and mobotix and neither is perfect. It seems invixium NOW also has an intercom system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si8h9Lv-4M0 It can trigger an external camera for video and it provides the two way audio. I'd like to know if anyone else has tried this? Will it work with C4 TS? Can all TS participate in a call or just one? Is there external coverage - ie answer from cell as if you were home? They also have added camera's to the TOUCH and new TITAN. I wonder if these will directly integrate??

Landscape lighting

I like the DMX controlled coloured lights but my installer has never installed them. He is a dealer for costal source. Bullet proof lights but boring design. Plus we want natural gas powered tiki torches!! 

Door Locks

We may do invixium for our wine cellar.  They are joined with Hoppe to do the first C4 controlled multipoint door lock. Very cool but also $$$$ see http://www.us.hoppe.com/media/wysiwyg/PDF/Keyless_Electronic_Multipoint_091614.pdf Rest of the exterior doors will be Baldwin - I wish we could customize the finish to match the rest of our baldwin handelsets.

Other cool add-ons

Steamist shower control; sump pump alarm alerting, nuheat signature in-flooring heating control, carrier/tekmar control of 3 AC units and 3 Air handlers with full basement hydronic floor heating (upstairs is subdivided in 6 zones for each bedroom and library), 

It would be great if there was a sticky with recommended equipment. Maybe this can be a start??

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This sounds like a great plan. The only product manufacturer that has me a bit concerned is Tripp lite.  We went through a period years ago where we deployed their batteries and mostly pdu's to about 20 projects.  Every single project we lost access to the pdu remotely and had to go through painful firmware replacements and unit swaps.  This was very painful of course losing access to a pdu which entire purpose is remote access of power management, but what is worse is after at least 30 bad units Tripp Lite still doesn't know what is wrong. 

We cleaned our warehouse last month and did a full inventory.  We found a few Tripp lite pieces brand new that a few people at the office wanted to go office space on. We opted to put it in the eBay pile.  

Hope this helps with a very small but critical component of your system. 

Dan

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For IP Camera and NVR - why not look at Blue Iris for your NVR solution?  Way cheaper than $7000 CDN.  You need a PC with certain specs that you can likely get for $500-$700 these days.  With all of your cameras, maybe over spec the PC and get a more expensive one.   Buy the BI Driver once and buy the BI Software once and you are done, likely with programming for around or under $1,000 USD (too early for me to convert to CDN)

http://blueirissoftware.com/download/ - those are the requirements to run the software.  Flawless integration within C4.  You can program off various events/motion.  Here is a link of compatible cameras, though plenty not on here still work: http://blueirissoftware.com/technology/

Re: Door Stations, I am 100% on your side.  I have the Holovision.  I am happier than my original DS1 C4 door station.  It could still be better but that is mostly due to C4's lack of true SIP support vs any major flaws with the Holo hardware.  I do wish the FOV was a drop wider on the Holo, but each house/install will have various FOV requirements.

Sounds like you got a nice house being set up - enjoy!

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8 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

HTPC/Streaming - required sources - Netflix 4k HDR, Amazon prime 4k HDR, Vudu HDX for ultraviolet; required audio - Atmos if available; Need two of whatever we go with as three adults and child in our home

1. Roku Ultra - has universal search, easy to integrate, only atmos thru Vudu, ethernet. How easy is it to navigate between apps or enter using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android  or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

2. HTPC - I have a current 1U rackmounted HTPC - this would need to be upgraded for 4K HDR and HDMI 2.0a/b. No universal search. Control thru USB dongle. Kodi or Plex. 

3. Bolt + OTA - I'm in Canada so only the OTA version is useful for me. I cannot find control options/driver using C4? The OTA is not 4k ready ie is not ATSC 3.0. It has Ethernet and universal search. Has all the streaming sources including plex for backups.  

4. Kaleidescape  - best hardware and polished on screen display, no streaming, no TV shows, not all the studios yet, cannot play backed up sources 

5. NVIDA shield - has universal search - ? voice only; has all the sources. I cannot find control options/driver using C4?  How easy is it to navigate between apps using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

First of all, you will not get text entering on apps etc - though depending on the device, number buttons can be used (remember those old cell phones?).

I'd say 1 or 5 is probably going to be your best bet. There's an Android driver if you can/are willing to root your shield, there's IR drivers floating around as well. For streaming stored movies, with Roku you could use PLEX server and driver, for Shield you could use KODI and the KODI driver (also allows limited compared to the full android driver, but still good normal android control)

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

Garage door control - 3 x liftmaster 8500. I think I'm stuck with MyQ and their wireless bridge. I wish I could have this hardwired like my current opener is

You can still hardwire (it's still the best option in many ways) by having extra buttons (can be wired!) and soldering/wiring the controller to those instead

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

Irrigation - want smart watering with ideally ethernet connection

1. Rachio - gen 2- cloud based - would rather not use wifi

2. IrrigationCaddy - hardwired - local control, no smart features

3. Rainmachine - touch hd-12 - wifi only

4. other suggestions?

Rachio or IrrigationCaddy are really your only options for integration.

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

Generator - I've seen some programming on this site. Looking at Generac 48KWQs or 60kW vs Eaton 45 kW vs Briggs & Stratton 48kW. Anyone have any feedback or tips?

Just make sure it's tuned well, ie it's frequence is 59.6-60.1 or you may have issues with lighting devices.

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

IP Camera and NVR - we will have 12 camera's. 4 to 6 will be Samsung 4k at 30 FPS and the others will be 3 or 4MP 1080P at 30 FPS camera

1. 4k - Samsung PNV-9080R

2. 3MP - Samsung  SNV-7084R or Hikvision DS-2CD4535FWD-IZH/DS-2CD4535FWD-IZH8

3. NVR - my installer is not happy with the Hikvision NVR. We are looking for an NVR that we can tie into C4. The cameras will be going into a cisco POE switch. H.265 with 4K support would be great for the main feed security recording and H.264 sub-stream at 1080p or 720p for the C4 TS/onscreen. Samsung has a NVR but it's $7000 CDN. I believe the C4 system can pull the sub-stream independent of the NVR...is this correct?

Nothing wrong really with the HIK - if control of the NVR itself is required, there's a (pricey) payed driver. But I would echo using BlueIris if you're specific on what cameras you want.....

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

Surge Control & UPS

I live in the GTA and Torus power is willing to sell me a AVR2 60BAL direct. However my installer doesn't believe the hype with Torus. I believe Torus allows for IP control and individual power cycling.  He installs panamax. I'm looking for undercurrent/overcurrent/surge/etc protection for the rack. Torus is suggesting 240V in and 240V out into a large UPS to allow for all the cisco/ruckus/C4 equipment to be protected.  Anyone care to chime in with suggestions? Tripp Lite makes a large battery backup UPS SU6000RT4UTF. Again my installer uses someone else. 

Anything in general works - we've been playing with SnapAV's OVRC line of devices, including their UPS and I'm pleasantly surprised

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

Door video intercom

Why can't C4 license crestron's SIP protocol or further develop their own. Elan has their own which allows real-time video doorstation chats. Doorbird is crippled as there are only two active streams and once one picks up the others cannot join/listen. I've looked at Holovision and mobotix and neither is perfect. It seems invixium NOW also has an intercom system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si8h9Lv-4M0 It can trigger an external camera for video and it provides the two way audio. I'd like to know if anyone else has tried this? Will it work with C4 TS? Can all TS participate in a call or just one? Is there external coverage - ie answer from cell as if you were home? They also have added camera's to the TOUCH and new TITAN. I wonder if these will directly integrate??

Options are limited here. Assuming you want to be able to answer while away from home, AND answer from C4 touchscreens - Doorbird and Mobotix are probably your better bets.

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

Landscape lighting

I like the DMX controlled coloured lights but my installer has never installed them. He is a dealer for costal source. Bullet proof lights but boring design. Plus we want natural gas powered tiki torches!! 

Then get a company in that can do DMX, and have your dealer work with them to integrate. Depending on what you want, all you really need is the device and/or decoders - plus the integration devices you need for it. Easiest to step in is probably the one available from Houselogix. Don't sell yourself short just because your dealer hasn't done it.

It's one thing for him to get into complete setup of lighting strips and procurind DMX devoders etc - another to simply use made for DMX lights with built-in decoders and tie it in....

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

Door Locks

We may do invixium for our wine cellar.  They are joined with Hoppe to do the first C4 controlled multipoint door lock. Very cool but also $$$$ see http://www.us.hoppe.com/media/wysiwyg/PDF/Keyless_Electronic_Multipoint_091614.pdf Rest of the exterior doors will be Baldwin - I wish we could customize the finish to match the rest of our baldwin handelsets.

Baldwin has a plenty of options - you sure there's no match - also C4 sells matching escutheons and handles etc...

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+1 on BlueIris. Get a refurbished Dell i5 or i7 via Dell Direct and you are all set. Fraction of the cost and way more flexibility. Also look at Dahua as opposed to HikVision for affordable cameras. They are great. Look at ipcamtalk.com for more info on them.

For irrigation, Rachio is great. and they are about to release a big new software upgrade. There is a driver available to integrate with Control4 but most people agree that it is not really worth it. But up to you. They seem to have really become the leader for smart irrigation. 

For landscape lights, a cheap but effective option is to connect your transformer(s) on a Control4 controlled outlet. You obviously won't control color but on/off, both manual and on schedule. Works obviously well and gives you the flexibility to use any landscape lights you want.

Roku integrates very well with Control4, including native apps integration. In other terms, you can have a button/choice on your remote or device to load (with no delay) Netflix, Amazon... And you can use Plex on Roku. 

For door openers, I don't know for sure for your models. But if you can't wire to Control4, you have the option to use a CardAccess module to connect remotely to Control4. MyQ is an option but there seems to be a lot of back and forth lately on it. I personally had wired my garage openers to the back of my HC800 and it works great, both sensors (for status) and contact (for open/close). You can do the same remotely with CardAccess module.

Great idea on keeping a list of "good" devices for Control4 users!

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

It would be great if there was a sticky with recommended equipment. Maybe this can be a start??

This is, in the end, a custom sysstem every single time - while there are 'common' devices, the 'recommended' devices will change in time and as the end-user requirements change. Point in case:

 

9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

HTPC/Streaming - required sources - Netflix 4k HDR, Amazon prime 4k HDR, Vudu HDX for ultraviolet; required audio - Atmos if available; Need two of whatever we go with as three adults and child in our home

1. Roku Ultra - has universal search, easy to integrate, only atmos thru Vudu, ethernet. How easy is it to navigate between apps or enter using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android  or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

2. HTPC - I have a current 1U rackmounted HTPC - this would need to be upgraded for 4K HDR and HDMI 2.0a/b. No universal search. Control thru USB dongle. Kodi or Plex. 

3. Bolt + OTA - I'm in Canada so only the OTA version is useful for me. I cannot find control options/driver using C4? The OTA is not 4k ready ie is not ATSC 3.0. It has Ethernet and universal search. Has all the streaming sources including plex for backups.  

4. Kaleidescape  - best hardware and polished on screen display, no streaming, no TV shows, not all the studios yet, cannot play backed up sources 

5. NVIDA shield - has universal search - ? voice only; has all the sources. I cannot find control options/driver using C4?  How easy is it to navigate between apps using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

This on could be answered in at least 10 different ways depending on the actual user scenarios and requirements...

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Yale to my knowledge had the first Control4 multipoint lock, there has been talk for a couple year to bring it to North America.

A list of good and recommended products would be great, even showing ones that just don't integrate well.  Maybe getting this updated with Control4 info would make sense.

http://www.smarthomedb.com/

 

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On 16/03/2017 at 4:43 AM, ERDrPC said:

4KUHD - 2 x Oppo 203 (one local fed back to rack via JAP and one rack distributed out) - C4 has a IP driver

HTPC/Streaming - required sources - Netflix 4k HDR, Amazon prime 4k HDR, Vudu HDX for ultraviolet; required audio - Atmos if available; Need two of whatever we go with as three adults and child in our home

1. Roku Ultra - has universal search, easy to integrate, only atmos thru Vudu, ethernet. How easy is it to navigate between apps or enter using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android  or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

2. HTPC - I have a current 1U rackmounted HTPC - this would need to be upgraded for 4K HDR and HDMI 2.0a/b. No universal search. Control thru USB dongle. Kodi or Plex. 

3. Bolt + OTA - I'm in Canada so only the OTA version is useful for me. I cannot find control options/driver using C4? The OTA is not 4k ready ie is not ATSC 3.0. It has Ethernet and universal search. Has all the streaming sources including plex for backups.  

4. Kaleidescape  - best hardware and polished on screen display, no streaming, no TV shows, not all the studios yet, cannot play backed up sources 

5. NVIDA shield - has universal search - ? voice only; has all the sources. I cannot find control options/driver using C4?  How easy is it to navigate between apps using HR260? Can the C4 app on an ipad/iphone/android or can the TS be used to enter text for searching?

Given cost does not appear to be a primary concern, I am not sure why you wouldn't go for a Kaleidescape system?  If I were you, I would buy a cheap secondhand kaleidescape system and trade it in so you get grandfathered DVD rights on a Premiere line Kaleidescape system and add a Strato - this way you would have all your DVDs and blurays (which I assume you mean by "backed up sources") and access to the download store (which is getting better and better) and 4K on the Strato with the benefit of a single system which gives you the most flexibility now and in the future.  Depending on how large your movie collection is, you can decide on the right storage capacity for you.  You can also add a Roku Ultra for streaming other TV shows, etc.

Just my 2 cents...

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We may do invixium for our wine cellar.  They are joined with Hoppe to do the first C4 controlled multipoint door lock. Very cool but also $$$$ see http://www.us.hoppe.com/media/wysiwyg/PDF/Keyless_Electronic_Multipoint_091614.pdf Rest of the exterior doors will be Baldwin - I wish we could customize the finish to match the rest of our baldwin handelsets.

 

Where do you see details of C4 integration/a C4 driver for this lock? I have been planning a motorised multi-point lock and we're looking at an ekey fingerprint reader which could be integrated into C4 but a lock that is natively integrated into C4 would be better. Thanks!

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I am in GTA as well.  For irrigation I have had an Irrigation Caddy for several years but it isn't integrated into C4 but that isn't a big deal as the app is fine for the handful of times you need to access it.  For landscaped lighting I use lots of light strips and I like the Dresden Elektronik ballast as it shows up in your system as a Hue light so you can control on/off and colours.

I have Baldwin locks but I don't have my sliding doors on electronic locks and these are the bulk of my external doors.

Other things to potentially integrate are gas fireplaces and blinds.  

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On 26/03/2017 at 2:27 AM, bdo21 said:

 

Where do you see details of C4 integration/a C4 driver for this lock? I have been planning a motorised multi-point lock and we're looking at an ekey fingerprint reader which could be integrated into C4 but a lock that is natively integrated into C4 would be better. Thanks!

You have to contact Hoppe directly. I believe the info is in the pdf. Hoppe and Invixum worked together for this. 

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9 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

You have to contact Hoppe directly. I believe the info is in the pdf. Hoppe and Invixum worked together for this. 

The info is not in that PDF - it was done with a different automation system at that house.

We (diamond design) did it at a house in Florida with Control4. It is the second electronic multipoint lock & biometric install in North America we were told, and the first with Control4. We retrofit Hoppe electric multipoint locks to replace standard Hoppe mechanical multipoint locks. Used Invixium for biometric access. While invixium does tie to C4 (which we used for two way intercom to control4 portable t3 and to lock/unlock a different door that used a Baldwin lock), we used Invixium's built in authentication scheme and relays to trigger the unlock when authentication is successful. Of course with the Control4 tie in, it would bind a relay to the generic lock driver much like kwikset/yale/baldwin locks do, so sending the command to unlock the door goes to the Invixium, which in turn triggers Hoppe locks. Of course you don't need Invixium to trigger Hoppe, but the client wanted biometrics so that he didnt have to worry about re-keying and could set schedules for users. Hope that helps. If you need further assistance on your project I would be happy to put you in touch with people at Invixium or Hoppe. (Disclosure we are Invixium dealers.)

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Also with regard to cameras, I would recommend checking out Mobotix. They have a new 6 megapixel line that which, while not 4k (8.3 megapixels), is still pretty fantastic especially considering there's no IR needed with the Moonlight tech.

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Sounds a lot like the install that's almost finished at my house, with the exception of the natural gas tiki torches. I'm using a 24" 500,000btu natural gas fire pit. The one I have has an electronic starter that integrates with Control4, but I couldn't justify the $1000 price tag. $1000 will buy a whole lot of matches, but it can be done. I can also operate the waterfalls coming out of a brick wall into my pool with the Control4. I also have 2 Nvidia Shields, one local and one on the matrix, but I use the regular Nvidia Shield remote when using it because it's difficult to play games with the Control4 remote. For some reason my Roku Ultra has been flaky, but I would rather use the Vudu app on my TV since I can watch movies in DV. Every TV in my house is 4K HDR, but only half of them support DV. When playing a UHD Bluray through the matrix, every TV gets a 4K HDR signal, but my Oppo hasn't been installed yet, and I'm still waiting on 4 of my Triad speakers to arrive so my main media room can be finished. 

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