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nevets23

Control4 Matrix Switches

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Since a new 4k AppleTv is going to be announced tomorrow, I started thinking about a couple different things with respect to my c4 system, primarily with whether or not I will have trouble getting HDR. Unless I am missing something, it appears the answer is yes. Based on everything I have read/researched, the control4 4k matrix switches don't support 4k video at 30bpp (aka 10bit color), which is what you need to obtain HDR. According to the user docs, the highest bpp the c4 matrix switch will output at 4k is 24bpp (8bit color), which is why the PS4 Pro won't display HDR when it's hooked up through the matrix.

In other words, although the control4 matrix is "4k" in terms of resolution, and will display that resolution fine, to some degree it almost seems pointless to have it since you can't really tell that much of a difference between 1080 and 4k without HDR. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems like this is kinda of a big deal when you're spending that much money on a 4k matrix switch. Yes, I should be able to get 4k content through the apple tv when it's hooked up through the matrix switch, but not being able to have HDR almost renders upgrading to the new 4k apple tv worthless if that's how I'm going to set it up, rather than hooking it up directly to the tv.

Thoughts anyone?

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4 hours ago, nevets23 said:

In other words, although the control4 matrix is "4k" in terms of resolution, and will display that resolution fine, to some degree it almost seems pointless to have it since you can't really tell that much of a difference between 1080 and 4k without HDR.

I think it is unfortunate the Control4 matrix solutions don't support HDR.  But on the other hand, not much of a difference between 1080 and 4k is marketing-speak.  Lots of variables there.  On a large screen or up-close, there is a huge difference.  And HDR is a moving target, format war mess.

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It's extremely confusing, because 4k video at 30 bpp(10bit) is not listed under the spec sheet for the Leaf matrix switches, but the same spec sheet does indicate that the switches have a color/hdr capability of: HDR @ UHD 3840x2160p30, 4:2:0 10bit (30 bit color)....see the link here: 4k-uhd-lu-series-data-sheet-rev-b.pdf

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As far as I know the only thing that will give full 4k HDR is fiber hdmi’s...specifically the monoprice slimav ones for anywhere over 30 feet. I went through balens and switches, and—ugh. 

For what it’s worth full 4k is 4k @ 60hz; and 4:4:4 color.

Add to the fact that the 2.2 hdcp is super crappy on Roku and directv boxes (good on the Shield!) and totally dependent on a good hdmi bus on the receiver for output power and....

4k is a pain cave

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these are the only cables we will sell for 4k hdr for anything over 6ft long and sometimes for 6footers

http://www.dpllabs.com/page/dpl-approved-products

 

I can personally a test to the growing pains that we spend on 4 days alone attempting to just get two tvs working probably at this rate.

 

I will say AV PRo Connect is provides amazing tech support and even provided equipment to help further trouble shoot the issue. In the end they were on the phone with us until we had a working solution..

and they do have new matrices with full 4k hdr support however it is recommended to use fiber, but they apparently had a cat5 balun at cedia.

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@Matt Lowe so I looked in to AV PRO CONNECT. Do you know if I could use one of their up/scaler receivers on a 1080p tv connected to my control4 leaf matrix so that I don't have to source lock in order to watch 4k on my 4k tvs connected to the matrix? I know it does what I want as far as function. I just don't know if you can use the device with a non AV PRO CONNECT Matrix.

 

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1 hour ago, nevets23 said:

@Matt Lowe so I looked in to AV PRO CONNECT. Do you know if I could use one of their up/scaler receivers on a 1080p tv connected to my control4 leaf matrix so that I don't have to source lock in order to watch 4k on my 4k tvs connected to the matrix? I know it does what I want as far as function. I just don't know if you can use the device with a non AV PRO CONNECT Matrix.

 

they sure can be we used one just last week and had nothing but issues with an older sharp tv added this and boom instant fix. pm me if you want me to order one for you.

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Any recommendation for a reasonably priced 15m/50ft in wall rated 4K/HDR 18Gbs hdmi cable?

looks like optic fiber monoprice may be a good option but not on Dpl labs. 

My expensive forest audioquest installed 18 months ago does not seem to carry 4K ?

Thanks. 

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Im using directional key digital 50ft cables that work flawlessly passing a 4k signal. I'm very happy with them and will likely use them again. 

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This is what I'm on about..

... been on about for years about HDMI/HDCP  being a total sham and a complete FAIL and why Control4 should sue Hollywood and the HDMI "Cartel" for billions in damages.. 

W

 

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I’m super disappointed in these matrix switches. Had a situation today with a Samsung 4k and an LG 4K. The settings that made the Samsung work caused the LG to not get 4k and vice versa. I was on the phone with tech support for close to 4 hours. Their end result was basically, until you get an edid restorer and/or a 1x2 hdmi splitter we can’t help you anymore. Ridiculous that it takes extra parts to make these things do what they claim it can do. I just need the display to show 4k instead of 1080. I don’t even care if it does HDR or not. If you claim it can do 4k - that shouldn’t be a full day on site to make two different 4k displays work (which still didn’t happen). If I were the one in sales, I wouldn’t even sell these things. 

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46 minutes ago, milehighreb said:

I’m super disappointed in these matrix switches. Had a situation today with a Samsung 4k and an LG 4K. The settings that made the Samsung work caused the LG to not get 4k and vice versa. I was on the phone with tech support for close to 4 hours. Their end result was basically, until you get an edid restorer and/or a 1x2 hdmi splitter we can’t help you anymore. Ridiculous that it takes extra parts to make these things do what they claim it can do. I just need the display to show 4k instead of 1080. I don’t even care if it does HDR or not. If you claim it can do 4k - that shouldn’t be a full day on site to make two different 4k displays work (which still didn’t happen). If I were the one in sales, I wouldn’t even sell these things. 

Then go and have the same issues with any other brand.

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40 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Then go and have the same issues with any other brand.

At about half the cost, that’s a tempting proposition. 

And hopefully Control4 doesn’t share the sentiment. “Ours doesn’t work any better than anyone else’s.”

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Control4 *does* compatibility testing, but it's not possible to test all source gear with all manufacturer's TVs.

We are working on expanding our HDMI certification lab, though, primarily because of issues like the ones you're facing.

I'm sorry you're having issues with it.

RyanE

 

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13 hours ago, milehighreb said:

At about half the cost, that’s a tempting proposition. 

And hopefully Control4 doesn’t share the sentiment. “Ours doesn’t work any better than anyone else’s.”

Don't assume to put words in my mouth. My point is that the issue you're describing -4K panels from mixed manufacturers (indeed specifically so far if ONE of them is LG in my experience) causing havoc on distribution - is one that is seen across switch manufacturers. In fact we SOLVED it in one setup by replacing the existing switch WITH a C4 switch - go figure.

 

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I am having the same issues with getting HDR working at all.

I have a 6x6 leaf 4k matrix and my deals can NOT get HDR working in any capacity.   While my TVs and projector when hooked directly to inputs I get HDR options, through the matrix I cannot get any HDR.  My 4k HDR devices include my Nvidia Shield and my PS4.  My dealer tried baluns, direct HDMI cords etc... and has basically thrown their hands up saying "We got 4k working... (which was multiple visits)" and "we will look into it" regarding the HDR.

My Equipment:   Leaf 6x6 4k matrix, Marantz 5012, optoma uhd60 / Samsung ks8000 (among a few other HDR compatible screens). 

Has anyone gotten 4k HDR through one of these switches to actually work?  The spec sheets for the switches do NOT mention HDR, only 4k compatibility, which is I think the thing.  It isn't officially supported.  Perhaps a firmware update, but this long without an update or a word is rather concerning.

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3 hours ago, Cyknight said:

I sure do, from my UHD player to my one screen - to do so however, especially is there is even ONE screen that doesn't support HDR requires using 'locking'

This. Locking has to be used and you will not be able to watch that source on more than one screen. And that source needs to be hidden on the non-4k rooms. If a non 4k  display selects a 4k source, it has been my experience that the source drops back down to 1080 and has to be re-calibrated. YMMV on that.

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12 hours ago, Cyknight said:

I sure do, from my UHD player to my one screen - to do so however, especially is there is even ONE screen that doesn't support HDR requires using 'locking'

Thank you very much for this.  It is promising, I really would like HDR to work, even if it ends up just being for my PS4 on my theater.  

Are you running through a receiver?  What types of HDMI cords / Baluns are you using? 

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15 hours ago, Pgnee said:

Thank you very much for this.  It is promising, I really would like HDR to work, even if it ends up just being for my PS4 on my theater.  

Are you running through a receiver?  What types of HDMI cords / Baluns are you using? 

I'm using the LEAF/C4 LU1082D - feed to TV is from the switch to the TV via HDBaseT. For this specific setup I'm using the Blurays secondary/audio only HDMI output to the receiver (which is also in the rack) to feed audio.

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