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Control4 Dimmers versus Lutron

Portmoody911

By Portmoody911
in General Control4 Discussion

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Portmoody911 Rookie

Portmoody911

Posted
Posted

 I am moving into a new house and I’m looking to install a home automation system. I have had control4 in the past and now I have the opportunity to install a Lutron lighting system RA2 select .   The LUtron system would cost me half the price of the equivalent contro4. Does Lutron integrate well with control4? Is it worth saving the money? Will my lighting control be compromised by going with Lutron?

 Any feedback is much appreciated 

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Cyknight Grand Master

Cyknight

Posted
Posted

Lutron works very well with C4 - there is SOME loss of function, I've seen SOME minor issues in the form of delays in tracking scenes/buttons/status LEDS but very minimal. I certainly wouldn't say your control is compromised, that's much too strong a word. It's not quite as good and smooth as going native C4 - but it's not far off.

Personally, I would prefer doing C4 and eat the cost (keeping in mind that as a dealer I have access to both at dealer cost and would have no install/programming costs), but if I were to move into a house that HAD a full RA2 setup, I wouldn't change it. This is largely personal preference - make of it what you will.

DO keep in mind that if you're having Lutron installed for half the price, you'll lose at least some portion of that gain because the Lutron setup subsequently needs to be set and programmed into C4.

It may still be a considerable net gain of course, but keep it in mind.

Also note that before making the decision you should make sure you have a C4 dealer willing and able to deal with the integration of the two. Along the same lines make sure that whomever does the Lutron setup (if it's not the C4 dealer) is willing to give you full access to changes etc (and not void warranty and so on).

The biggest 'unknown' you face is that you can't guarantee long term inter-operability. I see no reason why it would change, but if Lutron were to decide to make big changes or firmware changes down the road, no-one can guarantee that it would remain working, or get fixed, within C4. Same on the C4 side, should they decide to completely revise their lighting control, there's no guarantee it would transfer to Lutron devices (this could be limited to new functions or complete control at all). Again, I do not foresee it at all, or consider it more than extremely unlikely, but it's happened before (see Sonos) if you were to stick with all C4, that becomes so unlikely as to be dismiss-able.

Lastly, keep in mind that potential changes down the road will be 'double charge' as well in that a change in Lutron may mean a change in C4 needs to be made as well. Not major as such, but again, when comparing cost, keep that sort of thing in mind.

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knowitall Mentor

knowitall

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Posted

Major plus of C4 lighting is the zigbee mesh. Depending on how large the house is/controller locations, lighting is by far the best way to build a strong mesh  

And to comment on the setup, I once did a house that had almost 200 Lutron lighting devices. It took me about 16 hours to integrate and test all operations within c4, even with the device Report . The Lutron system was up and running. And as mentioned. If you make changes, you have to make them twice. 

Like Cy said if I moved into a house that had it, I wouldn’t change it, but building from the ground up I would do native C4 100%. 

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Cyknight Grand Master

Cyknight

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The integration is currently perfect for Sonos - everything that it does it does well - problem is that it does so very little. Just search Sonos on these forums - it'll clarify things.

 

Oh and great point there knowitall - ZigBee Mesh is a very important feature as well.

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knowitall Mentor

knowitall

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Well I’ll happily review quotes if you’d like to send them over and blank out names. 

2 pieces of advice I can offer

1- the “best” or pinnacle/diamond whatever dealer in your area isn’t graded on quality, simply quantity. 

2- do not settle or be talked into anything you don’t want. Be clear on your wants/expectations. 

I can assure you Control4 can handle it. 

 

@Derrick Cain  can get your lead to some local dealers if you so desire

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therockhr Mentor

therockhr

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3 hours ago, msgreenf said:

If you are building a 6000 sqft house spend the money to do it right

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk
 

If I had the money and was building a 6k square foot house I would have Lutron Homeworks QS panelized lighting.  That way you Wouldn’t be tied to a specific control system and lots of design options. 

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cybuch Community Regular

cybuch

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, therockhr said:

If I had the money and was building a 6k square foot house I would have Lutron Homeworks QS panelized lighting.  That way you Wouldn’t be tied to a specific control system and lots of design options. 

100% agree!  Way better fit and finish, by far!

 

 

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furious21 Newbie

furious21

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What a ripoff that quote is !!! The Luxul networking gear alone will cost you thousands more than it's necessary , skip it and find a dealer that uses Ubiquiti.Erlite router for a $100 ,access points at $150 each .

 Surveillance cameras ,forget about the Luma equipment , way too expensive for what it is ,look for a dealer that uses Hikvision , again you'll save thousands and it's all Control4 compatible. The Luma stuff is all  rebranded Hinvision equipment anyway,why pay double-triple  for the same thing.

Skip the Control4 intercom door station ,very expensive , limited functionality and buggy as hell . Look at the  Doorbird systems , control4 compatible ,costs 500 and will also ring your phone with their free app .

Skip the 10" tabletop touchscreen ,you might as well get the latest 10" iPad for half the price and use the free Control4 app to accomplish the same thing.

Skip  the EA1 controllers behind each TV ( at $650 a pop it will save you thousands) ,their only function is to show you the Control4 menu on the TV screen ,you won't use it very often ,use the app on your phone/ipad  instead. Or have them feed the HDMI output from the EA5 into the HDMI matrix if you want a Control4 screen on each TV .

The Omnimount rack is way overpriced , MSRP is 649USD , should be about 830 Canadian .

Lighting control is again overpriced ,chances are you'll be OK with Forward phase dimmers at half the price ,you'll probably have only a few tricky loads( light bulbs ) in the house that wouldn't work with forward dimmers and you can get adaptive ones for them ,if you have to .

The Wirepath surge conditioner is overpriced ,look for Panamax Bluebolt and skip the UPS battery backup to save another 1300 . It's not necessary as none of your AV equipment is critical ,we are not talking about NASA's main servers here,I'm sure you'll be able to survive 10 min without TV if there's a power outage in your area.

 

The Leaf HDMI matrix is also way overpriced and it doesn't even support HDR , there are other brands that do and are less expensive ( atlona , av proconnect) . If you don't need HDR ,Vanco . But to get the highest possible resolution from the new Apple TV ,you'll need HDR capable equipment . 

You can probably get away with an EA3 controller ,half the price of the EA5 ,your project is not that big .

Installation charges also seem a bit excessive , 2 guys should be able to do everything in the proposal for 3 days ,4 at the most . Multiply the total man hours  by the normal hourly rate for your area .

 

Last but not least  , 1300 dollars for short interconnect cables and the so called shop parts ( must be the cable ties they'll use) is crazy , you can buy a truck load of them at that price.

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Cyknight Grand Master

Cyknight

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, furious21 said:

What a ripoff that quote is !!!

Coming of course from an expert right?

Quote

find a dealer that uses Ubiquiti

MOST dealers will not use Ubiquity. Not because of price, but simply because it's not supported by C4 as such. Ubqt is it's own beast and I wouldn't recommend it myself unless you know networking to begin with. Mind you I don't like Luxul APs at all, but routers and switches are a solid choice.

Quote

forget about the Luma equipment

As opposed to HIKVision? Again there's good reason not to buy them. One error and you're trying to deal with their support. Also I'm pretty sure Luma is not made by HIK, but it doesn't really matter anyway.

Quote

the Control4 intercom door station

Nothing agains Doorbird, indeed we use them, but aesthetically it's not the prettiest, did you consider that? Also there's a TON of reports on buggy Doorbird operation as well.

Quote

Skip the 10" tabletop touchscreen ,you might as well get the latest 10" iPad

Hardly - going with a tablet is a choice open to you, but theres a lot to be said to have one dedicated C4 interface at least - and the C4 unit is nice at least in that it's got a good dock. Oh and, intercom.

25 minutes ago, furious21 said:

Skip  the EA1 controllers behind each TV

I don't disagree, but keep in mind that that is C4's own recommendation

26 minutes ago, furious21 said:

you won't use it very often ,use the app on your phone/ipad  instead

THAT part i don't disagree with though, but a controller fed into a matrix works fine

26 minutes ago, furious21 said:

The Omnimount rack is way overprice

You are forgetting that Canada is NOT a US state - there's more to it than straight conversion of dollar to dollar. That's a normal enough price.

31 minutes ago, furious21 said:

Lighting control is again overpriced ,chances are you'll be OK with Forward phase dimmers at half the price

HAH! and whose paying to swap them out, restocking fee because now you have opened units. And half the price? WHERE are you getting these number from

32 minutes ago, furious21 said:

The Wirepath surge conditioner is overpriced ,look for Panamax Bluebolt and skip the UPS battery backup to save another 1300 . It's not necessary as none of your AV equipment is critical ,we are not talking about NASA's main servers here,I'm sure you'll be able to survive 10 min without TV if there's a power outage in your area.

? Again, WHERE are you getting you're pricing from - and I'm sure you're very aware of this person's power situation.  This argument is utter nonsense if only because you're assuming about a situation you know nothing of.

Quote

we are not talking about NASA's main servers here

God I hope not, NASA I'm sure is spending a few MILLION on surge protection and power back-up. Hyperbole much?

34 minutes ago, furious21 said:

The Leaf HDMI matrix is also way overpriced and it doesn't even support HDR

Uhm, yes it does.

 

34 minutes ago, furious21 said:

there are other brands that do and are less expensive

Atlona? Again, your pricing is completely nonsense and VANCO? Wow, just wow you are grasping for things to say.

 

35 minutes ago, furious21 said:

You can probably get away with an EA3 controller ,half the price of the EA5 ,your project is not that big

Streams? Just a though, and again, where is your expertise coming from I wonder.

 

36 minutes ago, furious21 said:

Installation charges also seem a bit excessive

At least you're admitting there that you have no understanding of locale by mentioning local rates. To be fair, it does seem a bit high, but a beare equipment list does NOT tell you at ALL what labor is involved.

 

Sorry man, but that post is such a spew of nonsense you make peoples twitter rants seem sensible.

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