badjesus Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Hey guys, right now I have an active dealer login. I work for a dealer. I am curious what would happen if I leave the company in regards to my own system. C4 has told me to go pound sand to be able to retain my login. Has anyone had any luck reaching out to a dealer to possibly rent a license/dealer login to Composer? It is a very tough thing to wrap your head around, having a system for years and being so heavily invested in C4 (doing the entire thing yourself) to then be stuck in a situation when you have to hire a dealer for retail. Especially, when I am a person that has certified C4 techs in my city come to me for help. It is hard to hire someone, that you know will understand the systems less than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George B Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I am in a similar situation! Having owned this system for seven years! I am not even allowed to use the Composer app! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, badjesus said: Has anyone had any luck reaching out to a dealer to possibly rent a license/dealer login to Composer? This would be grounds for terminating the dealership if discovered. Your BEST bet would be to talk to your current employer. Assuming you're not leaving in bad blood that is. 2 minutes ago, George B said: I am not even allowed to use the Composer app! Well no, because the two are tied together and not separately licensed. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George B Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I am in a similar situation! Having owned this system for seven years! I am not even allowed to use the Composer app! 2 minutes ago, George B said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I am lucky enough to have a few friends in the industry that allow me to use their logins for pro so I can maintain my system but essentially you get to kick rocks which is shit compared to crestron as a certified programmer you can freelance badjesus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 All the C4 haters, Composer Pro deprived, bitching, entitled post be under the same forum title this is getting RIDICULOUS. Same endless topic pointless topic. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, prabeau said: All the C4 haters, Composer Pro deprived, bitching, entitled post be under the same forum title this is getting RIDICULOUS. Same endless topic pointless topic. How dare people talk about what they want. CA-1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, prabeau said: All the C4 haters, Composer Pro deprived, bitching, entitled post be under the same forum title this is getting RIDICULOUS. Same endless topic pointless topic. What does this have to do with C4 hating? lol This is a legit question for any dealer that may have a career change and is heavily invested. This isn't the normal customer dealer model discussion. The circumstances are very different. I am certified, I am a dealer, I just may not be in the future and I have heard of people signing up former dealers. It also doesn't really break C4 regulations either. If they list me as a dealer, I am certified. It doesn't state they have to have me on payroll. I could "freelance" and only touch my own system. It is a bit of a grey area. I can tell you right now, if I was the owner of a dealer, and someone in my city came to me I would for sure, 100%, allow them a deal login to work on their own system free of charge. I think it is only the fair thing to do, and it is a bit ridiculous that C4 doesn't do this when so many other dealer based model companies DO offer this. CA-1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 14 hours ago, sonic30101 said: I am lucky enough to have a few friends in the industry that allow me to use their logins for pro so I can maintain my system but essentially you get to kick rocks which is shit compared to crestron as a certified programmer you can freelance Yeah, since posting this I now have 3 different options at least so I won't lose my system if I leave. It is really too bad that C4 isn't set up to handle this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, therockhr said: How dare people talk about what they want. No problem but does it have to appear under every single forum titles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 16 hours ago, Cyknight said: This would be grounds for terminating the dealership if discovered. Oh dear - you can not trust dealers these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Gary Leeds UK said: Oh dear - you can not trust dealers these days Just pointing it out - think of it what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 8 hours ago, badjesus said: I can tell you right now, if I was the owner of a dealer, and someone in my city came to me I would for sure, 100%, allow them a deal login to work on their own system free of charge. I think it is only the fair thing to do, and it is a bit ridiculous that C4 doesn't do this when so many other dealer based model companies DO offer this. problem is you cant enforce this. And if they upset a customer control4 will come after your dealership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Just now, Matt Lowe said: problem is you cant enforce this. And if they upset a customer control4 will come after your dealership A few have been 2 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said: I would for sure, 100%, allow them a deal login to work on their own system free of charge - and there's one little problem with your 'for sure 100%' idea - each dealer has a limited amount of licenses available, you'd not only run out quick, it would be noticed quick. Also, you are now talking about two different scenarios. 'for rent' would mean someone paying a dealer to have access, you being a 'freelancer' is another matter entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, Cyknight said: A few have been - and there's one little problem with your 'for sure 100%' idea - each dealer has a limited amount of licenses available, you'd not only run out quick, it would be noticed quick. Also, you are now talking about two different scenarios. 'for rent' would mean someone paying a dealer to have access, you being a 'freelancer' is another matter entirely. You could not be taking words more literal. The fact is, in most cases when someone leaves and is looking for just their own personal system, they aren't helping customers. Rent is a loose term. The point is, pay a dealer to access an account for just your system. Obviously some level of trust is required but that is also only because of how pathetic it is that c4 doesnt allow an option for ex-dealers for their own personal systems. I am not talking about giving out 10 licenses. I am talking a pretty unique scenario. And I know that a lot of dealers are not even close to maxed. Look, if I upgrade, buy hardware, etc I will go to a dealer. Fine. That's the cost of having c4, cool. But for the existing equipment, I shouldn't have to pay someone to make some changes that are out of the scope of the home composer. C4 has the ability to heavily limit what you can do with your account. To allow for an "ex-dealers" usertype with a small annual fee, 1 computer composer and no access to pricing or tech, why is that a big deal that actual requires discussion? No one talked about freelancing so I am not sure where that is coming from. I found 5 people that are willing to do what I am asking do that is good. They know I will only ever use it for personal. I will never remote in, I will never give myself a license, or do anything to harm them. It is just one more email on file. This is all pretty simple and I think anyone arguing it is just trying to elevate boredom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badjesus Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said: problem is you cant enforce this. And if they upset a customer control4 will come after your dealership How would they upset customers on their own system?? I am confused why two people now have read "own system" as freelancing. We are talking about only working on your own system, you bought as a demo, when you used to be a dealer. Plain and simple. Not helping other customers, not purchasing new gear at cost, none of that. Just using your own system. No remote, no giving yourself 4sight, none of that. Just a login for composer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 1 minute ago, badjesus said: How would they upset customers on their own system?? I am confused why two people now have read "own system" as freelancing. We are talking about only working on your own system, you bought as a demo, when you used to be a dealer. Plain and simple. Not helping other customers, not purchasing new gear at cost, none of that. Just using your own system. No remote, no giving yourself 4sight, none of that. Just a login for composer. you can enforce them only working on their own system. you would have to take them at their word. it sucks the world we live in, but i wouldn't risk my business on someones word. there is no way to stop them from working on someones system other than their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 51 minutes ago, badjesus said: But for the existing equipment, I shouldn't have to pay someone to make some changes that are out of the scope of the home composer. Understand that I'm playing devil's advocate here. But YOU choose to leave the C4 world - or for one reason or another have acted in a way that forces it (please don't take this personal, I'm talking in general terms here). YOU choose to continue having a system - so YOU choose to now be a consumer. 48 minutes ago, badjesus said: How would they upset customers on their own system?? I am confused why two people now have read "own system" as freelancing. We are talking about only working on your own system, you bought as a demo, when you used to be a dealer. Plain and simple. Not helping other customers, not purchasing new gear at cost, none of that. Just using your own system. No remote, no giving yourself 4sight, none of that. Just a login for composer. Because there is no way to enforce you using it only for yourself...and your family, and friends, and.... Understand that I'm not saying you WOULD, but how do I know you WOULDN'T? You're thinking only of yourself, but you would need to take yourself out of the equation and look at it more remotely. I believe C4 DID at one time have a program for this situation...and it got abused, much like the developer program got abused. 48 minutes ago, badjesus said: Just a login for composer. Which would instantly allow working on any system, see above - it has been abused. Mind you, if there was SOME manner where you could lock a 'pro' access to an account, that may open up some options for those admittedly caught in between a rock and a hard place - but even then, what is preventing you from registering a different system to you account temporarily, do your thing and change back? 51 minutes ago, badjesus said: I found 5 people that are willing to do what I am asking do that is good. They know I will only ever use it for personal. I will never remote in, I will never give myself a license, or do anything to harm them. It is just one more email on file. That's their risk to take, I wouldn't recommend it, but it's their choice. Again, nothing personal at all towards you - please understand that. But while we've been back an forth a few times via these forums - I do not know you beyond text on a screen. WHY in the world would I (assuming I'm in the role of owning a C4 dealership) trust you on your word, risking my own business and thus livelihood of myself and all my employees (and by extend my family and theirs) based on that? That's why I recommended talking to your current employer, assuming you leave on otherwise good terms. There's a true personal relationship there, plus being in the area they would potentially notice if you WERE doing you're own side business and could strip you of access to begin with. Quote You could not be taking words more literal Of course I am - it's written text, there is no true inflection - how else should I take it? Want me to read in between the lines? Because if I do, I could read several things in there that would make me even less likely to 'trust' you on your word - ie that you think you're likely to either be fired or leave on bad terms with your current employer. Of course I could also read in between the lines that you're just looking at better income opportunities, moving to a new area or several other option. So tell me, which one should I take? Or should I just stick to the literal words? You asked in general terms, so I answered in general terms. 51 minutes ago, badjesus said: C4 has the ability to heavily limit what you can do with your account. To allow for an "ex-dealers" usertype with a small annual fee, 1 computer composer and no access to pricing or tech You're assuming this is in place, and it isn't to that extend - but even if it was, it would still very much depend on TRUSTING what is, in essence, a complete stranger. One last time, I'm NOT 'attacking' you personally - I understand where you're coming from, indeed I could easily be in the same situation. Difference is, I'm NOT currently in your situation, so I can still look at the bigger picture. On the even broader scope of things, taking it back to Control4 the corporation - In the end this is no different than the discussion of opening up 'Pro' to 'power users' or even those willing to pay for it - it's not as simple as just doing it for a 'few; or 'the individual'. Those that argue that 'yes it can' fail to look at it from that larger perspective and so will never be convinced of the arguments, leading to exactly what we get on these forums time and time again) You see this same issue in many things - politics especially is full of these situations. 51 minutes ago, badjesus said: The fact is, in most cases when someone leaves and is looking for just their own personal system, they aren't helping customers What fact? Where are you getting this fact from? It is also a self enforcing sentence : When someone leaves and just wants to take care of their own system, they don't want take care of customers. Well yeah obviously, but what's to say that when they leave, most of them don't want to also start a side business? And even is MOST people wouldn't do it, it's the FEW that gets us back to the fact that you're asking others to trust that you are not one of those few. And those few are the reason there is no system in place anymore. Vicious circle. 51 minutes ago, badjesus said: This is all pretty simple and I think anyone arguing it is just trying to elevate boredom. Maybe it's boredom that makes us argue it's Saturday and I'm killing time for sure, but it's not 'simple' at all. That's kind of the whole point of this post. There's nothing simple about it. You may not see it that way, but again - perspective. And so we circle around and around and around. Adidaswood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 I guess I don't understand how this is different from the "allow non-dealers access to Pro" discussions. Once you are no longer a dealer or employee, you are essentially in the same boat as the rest of us. Why should you have any different status/access just because you used to have access through a dealer? License HE and enjoy the frustration that comes with the limitations it has. (As for the idea of having a method of preventing Pro from being used on any system other than a users personal one, I'm all for it) South Africa C4 user and msgreenf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subhash Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 On 28/04/2018 at 3:38 AM, badjesus said: Hey guys, right now I have an active dealer login. I work for a dealer. I am curious what would happen if I leave the company in regards to my own system. C4 has told me to go pound sand to be able to retain my login. Has anyone had any luck reaching out to a dealer to possibly rent a license/dealer login to Composer? It is a very tough thing to wrap your head around, having a system for years and being so heavily invested in C4 (doing the entire thing yourself) to then be stuck in a situation when you have to hire a dealer for retail. Especially, when I am a person that has certified C4 techs in my city come to me for help. It is hard to hire someone, that you know will understand the systems less than you do. Need one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSTRONG Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Subhash there is a reason why programmers are required to take the 4 day class. It’s because control4 wants to maintain the integrity of their system. When non experienced techy people such as yourself try to program your control4 system , you dont do it correctly. I guarantee you won’t do it correctly without attending the class and then even after that you will need c4 support on things which you can’t get Then you will start telling everyone how crappy c4 is because it doesn’t work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 7 hours ago, Subhash said: Need one not sure if you would need one. You can do most everything with composer home. I understand you cannot change connections and delete or add stuff but some of that you can even program around it fairly easily. You can check out patreon course if you want to learn more about how to properly DIY you control4 project. https://www.patreon.com/waltstv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverAction Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I still have my original VM when I was working for a dealer with a saved login. Cancel button ftw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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