RyanE Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, therockhr said: I would caution Control4 about moving their remote to be too simplistic. The number 1 driver for me to use control4 was a hardbutton remote. I do not want to look at a touchscreen to change the volume, use directional pad or control the DVR. None of those things can be moved to a touchscreen. While I like the look of the NEEO remote, I dont see the need or expense of keeping a touchscreen on it. I honestly think touchscreens built into hardbutton remotes are pointless. This is debated quite a bit both within Control4 and within the industry in general. It depends somewhat on what your controlled devices are, for example, the Comcast Xfinity DVR has pretty good D-pad support, and doesn't need play/pause as hard buttons nearly as much as the Dish STB does, which doesn't support D-pad play/pause. The current NEEO remote does have volume +/-, channel +/- , mute, menu, back, d-pad (up/down/left/right/select), off, and home buttons as hard buttons, in a pretty compelling layout, IMHO. It's a bit premature to state exactly what any remote coming out of this partnership will consist of, exactly, but these considerations are definitely in the mind of the product manager over remotes, and I'm excited to see what this group can do. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 hours ago, bkrause said: I do not understand the full capability of the NEEO product. However, in my quick review, C4 making this purchase seems like a step back or at least a step sideways. Customers are not looking for more gadgets and remotes, they are looking for solutions that are easy to use. As an example, with Google Home and Alexa showing the way with a more simple customer interface. I do not pretend to fully understand C4's product path, but as a consumer / customer that has invested a lot of my hard earned money, it appears that C4 is more focused on preserving the professional installation model rather than succeeding in providing superior customer experiences. BTW, I am sure that some will downgrade me and or attack me based on this message, from my perspective that will just show negatively on them. Disappointing. I am not going to bash you, but so far I've been very unimpressed with voice control. And there is 0.0% chance I am going to watch TV and channel surf with voice commands. I've used voice control with my Shield a few times to call up an app in the Play Store or something and the experience is ok, but to sit there and figure out what college bball game to watch on a Saturday afternoon when a dozen channels have games? I need a remote :-) When my wife wants to find a move on the dozens of movie channels, she needs a guide/remote. Is NEEO the best remote? I have no clue, nor have I ever heard of them. But I agree, do not give up number buttons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Neeo built a very pretty, stylish and thin remote. My guess, Control4 was designing a new remote, and they couldn't get the style right, and it was cost effective to buy Neeo and have their designers take over the category. I'll await criticism of the product design when it gets released. Regardless, it's a welcome step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 That they have to buy a company to build a new remote tells me they are resource starved or their product development internally has stagnated and they need new external, happy, hungry, interesting people in another timezone to work unmolested by their internal culture. OR they got it dirt cheap and would have hired the employees anyway as they ran their company into the ground. OR they make a nice remote and buying them simply shaves a few months off a product development lifecycle and that is calculated in dollars. Maybe a little of each. I think it looks a hell of a lot better than these Betamax looking lead candy bars I've got lurking around the house, but remotes need to be designed for hands and not eyes. I dislike the feel of a flat remote that doesn't balance in the palm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrause Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 RyanE, Several points, I understand the need for professional installation on these systems. With the exception of a few, the technical requirements are too complex for the general public. However, it is my belief that C4 should be working harder on integrating more customer friendly interfaces and functionality, such as Google Assistant/ Home. I presumed that I would be attacked because I have been in the past on this site with a similiar point on being critical of C4 handling Google Assistant ./ Home. I do not believe that any technology or interface is the end all or be all for any smart home platform, I believe this will be the case for many years to come, I just wish C4 would allow the CUSTOMER pick which one works for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Wall street not liking... CTRL down 18% today. ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jeffrey said: Wall street not liking... CTRL down 18% today. ouch That has very little to do with NEEO, and far more to do with mixed 4Q results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Ah didn't see that those were announced. Yeah that would have something to do with it for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THawes Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, therockhr said: I would caution Control4 about moving their remote to be too simplistic. The number 1 driver for me to use control4 was a hardbutton remote. I do not want to look at a touchscreen to change the volume, use directional pad or control the DVR. None of those things can be moved to a touchscreen. While I like the look of the NEEO remote, I dont see the need or expense of keeping a touchscreen on it. I honestly think touchscreens built into hardbutton remotes are pointless. I agree with not making too simplistic, as I've always preferred hard buttons as well so I am not having to look down at a touch screen to make sure I'm tapping the right button. However, channel numbers specifically seem to be less and less important (annoyingly) with the move to streaming TV services (Youtube TV, DirecTV Now, etc). I wish I could direct-tune channels on those services by using channel numbers, but none of them seem to support it that I am aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraydonH Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 The other major concern I have is price. Right now the price point of the SR260 is perfect. I would imagine this new touchscreen remote will be $1000+CAD and I would have a really hard time trying to sell $1000 remote controls. I use it it my sales pitch that all the other guys remotes cost a grand, but the C4 remote is cheap so you dont have to worry about breaking it or the dog chewing it or whatever. The MOST I would be willing to pay for a NEEO is $600 CAD. Any more than that and I would likely just stick with SR-260's. NO ONE I know wants a $1000 remote. Maybe im in the minority here but how many of you would pay a grand for a remote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, bkrause said: I presumed that I would be attacked because I have been in the past on this site with a similiar point on being critical of C4 handling Google Assistant ./ Home. As Control4 doesn't pre-announce features, etc., I can't comment on what would / would not be supported at some point in time, but I certainly agree, more options are nearly always better. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, BraydonH said: The other major concern I have is price. Right now the price point of the SR260 is perfect. I would imagine this new touchscreen remote will be $1000+CAD and I would have a really hard time trying to sell $1000 remote controls. I use it it my sales pitch that all the other guys remotes cost a grand, but the C4 remote is cheap so you dont have to worry about breaking it or the dog chewing it or whatever. The MOST I would be willing to pay for a NEEO is $600 CAD. Any more than that and I would likely just stick with SR-260's. NO ONE I know wants a $1000 remote. Maybe im in the minority here but how many of you would pay a grand for a remote? The cheaper the remote the better but I could see maybe having an option of 2 remotes could be good, like Crestron has. https://www.crestron.com/Products/Featured-Solutions/Crestron-Remotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 10 hours ago, msgreenf said: No i don't fully agree or disagree with you. I think most customers benefit from having a professional setup their system. It's not just about the setup, it's the advice too and experience. Does everyone need it? no. but i strongly believe most do. MSG I'd like to set my record straight as I disappear again. I know you all get sick of me. That's fair enough. But what I say needs to be said. Nobody else ever seems to.. particular the dealers. My attitude to the platform has never changed over the years. I love the platform. What I dislike is being treated by the company like a child or some sort of villain (if I want a market to sell my gear) by their business model. Not my dealer (he is awesome). Same goes for you guys. At least you take the time to come on here and help people out. I'm talking about the companies sales and upgrade model. So this is my record Ok just in case some want to slander me for thinking I want to wipe HA dealers out. That is not the case I assure you. 1/ I believe HA custom installers have a massive role in HA in installing and upgrading folks networks, homes, support, wiring, tech, sound setup in home theatres, security setup etc ... 2/ But I don't believe folks should have to get a dealer to do a simple firmware upgrade or swap over a TV (I use this as an example... who buys TV's from HA custom installers these days?). Or buy a new driver and add it to the system. If I want a new app on my phone I simply download it, add it, pay the software vendor direct via the Apple store and I am done. That's the sort of thing I would like with my Control4 platform. And I do believe in a platform that allows me to recycle my gear by allowing me to sell what i don't need anymore to someone else. The only way this can be done is make it legal for the next person to go take a try with it and DIY. And I actually believe this would be a positive for the platform. Into more homes. Young kids palyin' around with it soon become developers etc! That sort of thing. So I would like a half decent market for my second hand gear. I would also like more online information about how to use the platform available on line. Information about upgrades, what's happening, firmware release details and notes etc..That too much to ask? 3/ I believe with this sort of relaxation C4 has a chance to still compete with "the big guys" and the platform has a chance to grow. Get mass traction and acceptance in everyones home. Become the dominant force... Without it it's toast and you guys will have one less product to sell and our beloved C4 platforms will whilter and die in support... Is that too much to ask in 2019? With the likes of Ebay, Amazon, Google and Apple being set up like the way they have existed now for well over 2 decades? So that's it. I'm not the villain some think I am. Take care all !!! And Cheerio W IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdougray Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, therockhr said: The cheaper the remote the better but I could see maybe having an option of 2 remotes could be good, like Crestron has. https://www.crestron.com/Products/Featured-Solutions/Crestron-Remotes Please dont look like these thou!! Bloody ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 hours ago, thegreatheed said: That has very little to do with NEEO, and far more to do with mixed 4Q results. It all about the outlook for Qty 1 - Qty 4 was not brilliant but the overall year was within Target - The outlook however is not looking good https://www.briefing.com/investor/analysis/story-stocks/control4-is-trading-lower-on-weak-q1-guidance-cites-slowing-new-housing-market-(ctrl).htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 8 hours ago, RyanE said: This is debated quite a bit both within Control4 and within the industry in general. It depends somewhat on what your controlled devices are, for example, the Comcast Xfinity DVR has pretty good D-pad support, and doesn't need play/pause as hard buttons nearly as much as the Dish STB does, which doesn't support D-pad play/pause. The current NEEO remote does have volume +/-, channel +/- , mute, menu, back, d-pad (up/down/left/right/select), off, and home buttons as hard buttons, in a pretty compelling layout, IMHO. It's a bit premature to state exactly what any remote coming out of this partnership will consist of, exactly, but these considerations are definitely in the mind of the product manager over remotes, and I'm excited to see what this group can do. RyanE Looking at your comments above you also need to look at your international customers and there requirements - The Sky Q remote with voice control is very good and simple - Control4 Do not even have a Driver for Sky - We have to buy ours from Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said: Control4 Do not even have a Driver for Sky - We have to buy ours from Alan just to be clear there is no US equivalent of what Alan has done! So Alan is plowing new road. Don't think we got it for free in the states Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, wappinghigh said: MSG I'd like to set my record straight as I disappear again. I know you all get sick of me. That's fair enough. But what I say needs to be said. Nobody else ever seems to.. Wap thinks that once again rehashing the most common topic on these boards (dealer model) is saying what "nobody else ever" says. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, msgreenf said: just to be clear there is no US equivalent of what Alan has done! So Alan is plowing new road. Don't think we got it for free in the states We are getting a bit touchy these days. Just saying RyanE only talked about North America - They are other products in the rest of the world and looking at there outlook they need to expand these markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, thegreatheed said: Wap thinks that once again rehashing the most common topic on these boards (dealer model) is saying what "nobody else ever" says. LOL Oh sure there are many of us end users who say it - that's because we are the only ones making any sense. I was talking about the dealers needing to say it.. Yep it's that one thing that never seems to go away Enjoy your cult dude. I'm not a member. Cheerio! W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said: We are getting a bit touchy these days. Just saying RyanE only talked about North America - They are other products in the rest of the world and looking at there outlook they need to expand them markets. I only talked about the two examples of STB manufacturers that I've worked with, and how they don't equally support using D-pad for transport controls. That doesn't imply at all that I don't care about other markets, just that I'm using examples I'm familiar with. Certainly, if in your market, there's a device that requires more non-hard buttons, that's something to take into consideration. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: Enjoy your cult dude. I'm not a member. For a non-member of this cult, you sure seem to come to a lot of the meetings. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 What I think is so awesome is that I think some Russian programmer has really nailed the AI on this forum bot. Just crazy enough that we think its a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, RyanE said: For a non-member of this cult, you sure seem to come to a lot of the meetings. RyanE LOLZ you're a good guy Ryan I'll miss the banter (again)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminaldisclaimer Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Getting back to the topic at hand, I think this is a positive development. Control4's remotes are in serious need of a re-design. First, they aren't exactly the most robust hardware (I've personally had 2 die on me in 3 years). Second, they just don't look that nice, especially in today's environment (although I'm not sure they ever did). Moreover, I would imagine some dealers have been complaining that they are losing business to Savant and even Crestron, given how much nicer their remotes are. I can only hope that C4 doesn't overcharge for them like they do for their touchscreens! Those are a complete ripoff, and everyone knows it. It should be a learning lesson for C4 to hear how many dealers push Ipads instead of C4's native solution. When Apple's tablets are cheaper than your own--you are doing it wrong. Hopefully they don't do the same with these remotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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