C4 Leaf Ultra LU624

[ILoveControl]

Hi All 

Just wanted to check something quick, with the C4 Matrix ULTRA LU624 matrix (that's the exact model) - If I have a HDMI *source* can I also have the audio coming out the Audio Stereo out. The solution I am trying to get to is:

I have a TV (end point) and I have in ceiling speakers in each room. The Zone on the matrix is connected via HDMI and HDBaseT - LUE1 -> HDMI into the TV. This works perfectly for picture and audio ON the TV. What I am trying to is then go out that zone (which already has a HDMI source) via the Audio Stereo to an receiver which then drives the ceiling speakers. Does that make sense?

So what I am trying to achieve the TV sound still works via the HDMI HDbaseT connection and the same audio still plays through the ceiling speakers via the Audio stereo out on that zone via the amp.

Right now how I have configured the following:

1. All sources connected to Matrix
2. Zone 1 - connected to TV1 (let's call it that)
3. Zone 1 - connected to TV1 via HdbaseT 
4. I then have Audio 1 OUT from the matrix into the receiver
5. Receiver then connects to the in ceiling speakers via its AV1 zone

What I am getting - audio on the TV via the HdbaseT HDMI no audio through the ceiling speakers.

Now I have read some things which I don't understand like Downmixing - I am not sure if this is what allows the Matrix to strip audio out of HDMI signal and pass it through to the Audio out. I know the model I have does not have downmixing is that why its not working? If not any idea how I can configure this?

[ILoveControl]

Correct on the outputs so If I understand you correctly I would have video going out on output HdbaseT and audio via HDMI out to the receiver? 

 

Would that then be two outputs then every time? Hdbaset and HDMI for audio?

[ILoveControl]

On 3/20/2019 at 11:05 PM, Mr. Daniel said:

Not sure if this was tried but sounds like it's a possibility w/ your setup.

Room 1 - "Lvg TV"
Video's Audio Endpoint - TV

Video's Audio Vol Ctrl - TV

Room 1 is using hdbt out of the matrix w/ tv speakers for sound

 

Room 2 - "Lvg 5.1" 

Video's Audio Endpoint - Yamaha

Video's Audio Vol Ctrl - Yamaha

Room 2 is using hdmi out from matrix to hdmi in on yamaha

 

that should separate everything so you can get the desired playback device using room selection.  however, you may want to setup strings like

When Room 1 is powered on set AVR vol to 0

When Room 2 is powered on set TV vol to 0

keep in mind your hdbt will still carry audio to the tv regardless and if the customer left the tv vol up you will get an echo from the tv and the avr processing audio at a slight difference.  
 

Also w/ the audio settings - hdbt to the tv will take 5.1 raw (dolby, dts, etc) from your sources and convert in the tv to stereo since the tv only has 2 speakers.  This happens all the time when ppl connect devices straight to tv or using OTA Channels.  That being said you should be able to leave all sources as 5.1 if they are hdmi to the matrix.  The matrix will simultaneously downmix this to stereo out of the RCA jacks for zone audio amps.  

Thank you for the time you tool to respond. 

So a few things / questions.

Now using HDMI out this model LU624 has two zones which are HDMI out to the receiver works .... I get the audio no problem. The problem comes in here :

lets use two rooms Main and Daughter. Lets say I want to watch cable in Main and daughter wants to watch YouTube off yhe Nvidia sheild (with Alans driver its really great) the receiver wont be able to do that its expecting a single input which would and would output accordingly. So whilst this setups works as you mentioned it. It only works for one selected source to one selected room. 

>> source - cable box

>> output - HdbaseT

>> output - Audio 1 (zone)

 

What doesnt work:

input to S1 C4 Leaf LU624 > Zone 1 has HDbaseT then just for my OCD on the audio matrix Audio 1 has the two (stereo out). 

That goes into Audio 1 zone 1 on my receiver- no sound. 

What I have tested and works:

HDMI out from Zone 5 or 6 (which are HDMI ports) to receiver get perfect sound.

SPDIF out from Source (cable box) to Matrix SPDIF in and then Audio out on that audio zone into receiver >>> get sound

Then I thought let me see if the cable box is actually forcing out stereo as per the settings I set on the box. Plug HDMI from the cable box to the receiver and it instantly shows source at PCM so thats working.

 

Ok so we know the source is sending PCM The HDMI Zone is working, The SPDIF is working.

just not HDMI into source 1 and using Audio 1 so either its not stripping the sound or I am just stupid.

For completeness I tried two other devices recalibrated etc both where confirmed to be playing stereo sound and nothing comes out.

 

I wonder if anyone has physically themselves done this and the broacher ware is just BS?

 

 

[ILoveControl]

Thank you @mstafford388

Firmware is 2.25 - and it says up to date

Driver version: 317

When I check for updates it does not show any newer updates. Not to sure if thats the latest and greatest.

[mstafford388]

Is your driver and firmware up to date on the LU?

 

[ILoveControl]

5 minutes ago, mstafford388 said:

1. No

2. Yes

What do you have set for the audio endpoints in these rooms?

Thank you @mstafford388 appreciate the time

The room audio endpoints I set the receivers Zone and output example:

In my scenario we have:

Source 1 Input to to Zone 1 via HDMI (made triple sure its PCM for audio) - Output for video is HdBaseT and Audio is Audio Matrix Output 2.

The binding to the room video endpoint is the matrix Zone 1 output. The Audio room Endpoint is the Yamaha Audio 1 output (See below)

The Audio output goes into a receiver (Yamaha RX-V2067) into Audio 1. That output goes into the ceiling speakers. 

This all works if I use zone 5 or 6 which are HDMI outputs from the Matrix to HDMI input on the Yamaha and then the Yamaha sends the audio out via the Audio Stereo to the in ceiling speakers. This only doesn't work as soon as I try use normal Audio Outputs via the outputs on the matrix into Stereo inputs on the receiver and out to the speakers.

I have tested multiple devices on different Zones via HDMI and audio out via the Audio out it does not work. When I check the Audio settings on the matrix (System>Matrix> double click on the matrix) go to Audio options the audio output is not muted. In my research it said that if the matrix is sent multi channel signal it would mute the Audio as it cant downmix.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[mstafford388]

2 hours ago, ILoveControl said:

1. Can the matrix drive speakers i.e. like an amplifier? example speakers straight to the matrix - I don't think so just to check.
2. In your answer above am I understanding you correctly if you say the "regular" LUC624 should be able to take a HDMI source (that is stereo) play the video to the TV via HDbaseT and then *strip* audio out the HDMI source and output it to the Analog out's? (Ultimately that's what I am trying to do)

 

Dam thing is racking my brain agrrrrrrrrrr

1. No

2. Yes

What do you have set for the audio endpoints in these rooms?

[ILoveControl]

So this is what I have tested:

1.  The source (HDMI) straight into the receiver (*after setting the source to PCM*) - the receiver says PCM on it so its getting a PCM signal...... and speakers get sound
2. Then put the source (HDMI) into Zone 1, have analog 1 outputs in and into receiver Audio 1 analog in. Audio 1 output is the ceiling speakers in the main bedroom.
3. No sound.

Then I tested the following:

1. Took a SPDIF out the source into SPDIF on the matrix, analog out the matrix into the receiver and there is sound so SPDIF is working from the source.....

Also tried:

1. Different sources, Raspberry PI on youtube with the audio out being stereo (double checked) - no sound.

I just want to quadruple check with you

1. Can the matrix drive speakers i.e. like an amplifier? example speakers straight to the matrix - I don't think so just to check.
2. In your answer above am I understanding you correctly if you say the "regular" LUC624 should be able to take a HDMI source (that is stereo) play the video to the TV via HDbaseT and then *strip* audio out the HDMI source and output it to the Analog out's? (Ultimately that's what I am trying to do)

 

Dam thing is racking my brain agrrrrrrrrrr

[ILoveControl]

Thank you Matt when you mean limit this mean I can basically have two Zones which will ve the two HDMI outputs I have on the matrix? 

So in this senario

TV 

Ceiling speakers

 Both in room 1 , I would bind as follows:

Zone One on Matrix to HDMI 1 on TV in room 1 and set that TV and Video 1 end point.

Then Zone 5 ( which is the HDMI out on the matrix) bind to Yamaha HDMI input, and bind the AV1 on yamaha which is physically connected to the ceiling speakers, as the audio endpoint for room 1.

Sorry for the long post just trying to logically build this out in my head.

[Matt Lowe]

you are correct. control4 handles this with easy with the correct connections. does limit your overall of video outputs you can use. but if you have surround sound for this room you can use it now.

 

[Matt Lowe]

depends on what is hooked up but i believe the matrix has 4 hdbaset outputs and 2 hdmi so one of the two local hdmis to the receiver could be used.

 

[ILoveControl]

Well The way I understand it I am running HDMI via HdBaseT to the TV end point. Just so I understand why would I run via HDMI to the Receiver? 

It could be the answer but then wouldnt I lose the HDbaseT Connection to the TV end point

[Matt Lowe]

if you using an AV receiver why is it not connected via HDMI?

Still need to check your device settings as they may be upmixing two channel audio to surround sound. Youtube is capable of 5.1 audio on the Shield.

 

[ILoveControl]

Hey @Matt Lowe 

As usual thank you for the response. The Audio Out is the rooms audio end path and the Audio Connection is Matrix >Source> HDMI  > Audio Out 1 > receiver (yamaha) > AV1 

But no audio. This is the same for the Nvidia Shield.

 

Thats the confusing part on the Nvidea no sound even if its a simple Youtube video (which I cant believe is 5.1 or DTS etc that requires downmixing.)

[Matt Lowe]

need to make sure that the in celing speakers have the correct audio path and the room endpoints are the ceiling speakers. IF you want to switch back and forth between tv and speakers you will need to separate rooms. Being it is a matrix that cannot down sample audio you will also need to be sure that the sources are in PCM stereo mode.

 

[ILoveControl]

Any takers ? This is racking my brain

[ILoveControl]

1 hour ago, mstafford388 said:

You can pull audio out of the HDMI with either the "regular" or the downmixing version of that matrix.   the difference is the downmixing version can take a source sending multi-channel audio  and pull the audio out, while the regular matrix can only handle a 2 channel source coming in.  I've seen sources that can't send 2 channel audio via HDMI so that becomes an issue unless you have the downmixing switch.  

Thank you if you dont mind just need some clarification.

 

is this all source specific? Out of the six sources I have connected not one is sending audio via the audio out. I have set on the source to be variable sound instead of fixed but not sure what audio its sending. 

 

Is there a way to check if its sending audio or if its erroring out with the advanced logs? 

Is ther any soecific settings i need to set in composer other than binding the audio output to the input of the receiver (which is connected to the speakers?)

I have a set box (cable tv), nvidia shield, apple tv 4k and the hdmi out of the EA5 currently as sources in the Matrix and not one of them work.

I would even be happy just to be able to stream spotify or my internet stations to the in ceiling speakers but now i am bot aure what source to use .... as i dont know what is going to be able to strip from hdmi to stero

[mstafford388]

You can pull audio out of the HDMI with either the "regular" or the downmixing version of that matrix.   the difference is the downmixing version can take a source sending multi-channel audio  and pull the audio out, while the regular matrix can only handle a 2 channel source coming in.  I've seen sources that can't send 2 channel audio via HDMI so that becomes an issue unless you have the downmixing switch.