Cost effective multi room options?

[Crustyloafer]

25 minutes ago, Tanner_Moore said:

Then I apologize. I misread your intention. 

No worries.  So is it zones or 16 zones of audio you are after?

[Tanner_Moore]

9 hours ago, Crustyloafer said:

No worries.  So is it zones or 16 zones of audio you are after?

8 zones might not be enough over time, but I wouldn't need all 16 zones right away, and a few of those zones are more than 2 channels (4 at the least, my back deck zone will have 4, maybe 6 speakers) So my currently thoughts are to purchase the 16x16 matrix switch and a reciever with SDDP control. Then add more amps and the TS-PAMP8-100 to finish it off. 

This way I'm guessing would give me the most flexibility without overcomplicating the integration side of things, since it all runs through a single 16 zone switch..

[Crustyloafer]

There isn't a 16x16 matrix switch, its a 24x24 switch and its called the Triad AMS24.

You could start with this and a single PAMP8 to serve 8 zones, it will happily drive up to two pairs of speakers per zone if 8 ohms impedance, we often do this for larger rooms.

[Tanner_Moore]

1 minute ago, Crustyloafer said:

There isn't a 16x16 matrix switch, its a 24x24 switch and its called the Triad AMS24.

I was referring to the C4-16ZAMSV3-B. I pulled the info right off Control4's product catalog page. Is this inaccurate? 

[Crustyloafer]

1 minute ago, Tanner_Moore said:

I was referring to the C4-16ZAMSV3-B. I pulled the info right off Control4's product catalog page. Is this inaccurate? 

End of line or discontinued already. Triad AMS8 or AMS24 only now. Far better product anyway 

[eggzlot]

https://www.video-storm.com/proddetail.asp?prod=cmx1616v

that isa  16x16 matrix that works with C4.  That said the triad 24x24 is just marginally more expensive and you have the extra inputs/outputs.  The VS handles audio delay if you are doing TV audio distribution whereas I do not believe the Triad model handles that audio/lip sync delay feature

Just giving you more options to confuse you even more!

[Tanner_Moore]

8 minutes ago, Crustyloafer said:

End of line or discontinued already. Triad AMS8 or AMS24 only now. Far better product anyway 

Ah. Strange that they would still advertise a discontinued product.

I'm undecided about more than 8 zones so 16 would be "future proof", but 24 is just overkill as I may well just end up with 8 total. So if I went with an AMS8 and in the future decided to add a second, would it make things challenging on the programming side? 

[Crustyloafer]

The AMS24 is only twice the cost of the AMS8 so much better value. 

Going down the multi matrix route is not the way to go, complicates wiring as there is no pass through output on matrices to all sources need to be split at source and over complicates programming too.  

[Tanner_Moore]

2 minutes ago, Crustyloafer said:

Going down the multi matrix route is not the way to go, complicates wiring as there is no pass through output on matrices to all sources need to be split at source and over complicates programming too.  

Yeah. That's what I was afraid of. If all things were equal I'd rather stick with the smaller system and build up if I need to, but if it makes for unnecessary difficulties then it's not worth it. 

[Crustyloafer]

You could alway ask your C4 dealer about purchasing an AMS8 and PAMP8 to start with and trading in AMS8 for AMS24 when you buy an additional PAMP8?

This is certainly something I would entertain for my own clients if they upgraded within a year and were purchasing all additional speakers etc from me too.

[Crustyloafer]

To put it in perspective there are other good quality 16x16 audio matrices on the market such as the Zektor P8-Pro16  but then that is more expensive than the Triad AMS24.

The Triad kit really is superb value for money and a combination of an AMS24 and PAMP8 to start with will stand you in very good stead for any future upgrades.

[tdougray]

15 hours ago, Crustyloafer said:

You could start with this and a single PAMP8 to serve 8 zones, it will happily drive up to two pairs of speakers per zone if 8 ohms impedance, we often do this for larger rooms.

With this set up is it still possible without a matrix to play the same source simultaneously into different zones? 

Basically if I want 6 zones and  I fed into this an EA3 and a couple of Sonos Connects would this work as a multi zone setup without the extra expense of the matrix?

[Thepritch88]

2 hours ago, tdougray said:

With this set up is it still possible without a matrix to play the same source simultaneously into different zones? 

Basically if I want 6 zones and  I fed into this an EA3 and a couple of Sonos Connects would this work as a multi zone setup without the extra expense of the matrix?

without the matrix you would only be able to listen to the source that's plugged in to that particular zone. you would be better off getting rid of the two sonos connects and just using ea-3 with a matrix and an amp.

[tdougray]

22 minutes ago, Thepritch88 said:

without the matrix you would only be able to listen to the source that's plugged in to that particular zone.

I thought you could have Global inputs into this amp?

[Crustyloafer]

2 hours ago, tdougray said:

With this set up is it still possible without a matrix to play the same source simultaneously into different zones? 

Basically if I want 6 zones and  I fed into this an EA3 and a couple of Sonos Connects would this work as a multi zone setup without the extra expense of the matrix?

Don't waste your time and money by having both C4 audio and Sonos in one system, Sonos integration with C4 is very limited and much better left as a stand alone audio system. It would also be really messy having a mix of C4 audio and Sonos sources fed into a power amp, you would end up with different levels of functionality and music selection/browsing depending on which zone you were listening in and it would be next to impossible to sync the same audio stream across multiple zones at the same time.

As per the reply above without an audio matrix you will only be able to listen to a particular source in the audio zone which its audio output is connected to on the power amp.

If you want to a save a little money, start with an EA-3, AMS8 and PAMP8 and then if you want more independent streams you could upgrade controller to an EA-5, if you just wanted more zones you could upgrade audio matrix to AMS24 and add another PAMP8 or PAMP4.

Another option open to you when you want to upgrade from the 3 stream / 8 zone solution would be to add Triad One single zone amps. These would give you an additional amplified zone of audio and an additional independent audio stream at the same time. 

[Crustyloafer]

4 hours ago, tdougray said:

I thought you could have Global inputs into this amp?

Yes, but all the global input does is allow whatever source is connected to input 1 on the PAM8 to be played through addition zones. These are dip switches on the rear designed to be set once and left alone. They would allow you to take a single source and play it through multiple zones at the same time but volume control would also be global. They are typically designed to be used in larger rooms with 4 or more speakers being treated as single audio zone, they are not designed to be used to switch one or more zones back and forth between being part of the global group or not.

There is also only one global input group which is tied to input 1, so either a zone is part of the only global zone or it is a stand alone zone, you cannot have multiple global zones, one using 3 zones outputs on PAMP and another using 2 zone outputs together for example.

[Crustyloafer]

Another low cost solution for a small number of audio zones would be an EA-1 and then 2-3 Triad Ones powering 2-2 audio zones. The Triad Ones would amplify a single zone with 2-4 speakers in it and generate its own independent audio stream so the EA-1 controller would not be required for providing any audio streams at all. 

As soon as you go bigger than about 3 zones, an EA-3, AMS8 and either PAMP4 or PAMP8 are the better value solutions.

[tdougray]

10 minutes ago, Crustyloafer said:

Yes, but all the global input do is allow whatever source is connection to input 1 on the PAM8 to be played through addition zones. These are dip switches on the rear designed to be set once and left alone. They would allow you to take a single source and play it through multiple zones at the same time but volume control would also be global.

There is also only one global input group which is tied to input 1, so either a zone is part of the only global zone or it is a stand alone zone, you cannot have multiple global zones, one using 3 zones outputs on PAMP and another using 2 zone outputs together for example.

I think you need to go and have a discussion with your local Control4 dealer to better establish your requirements and budget and whether they match up and if not what compromises will need be made initially. 

Thanks for the clarification. I have sonos set up now with a mixture of connect amps, bridges ect from yrs ago. It works ok but the limited integration is now becoming annoying. I use apple music a shed load so having my playlists available is great but not being able to browse tracks is annoying. 

I have an EA3 in central rack

[tdougray]

17 minutes ago, Crustyloafer said:

AMS8 and either PAMP4 or PAMP8 are the better value solutions.

I think this option is the one for me to explore more. Many thanks for the info.

[zaphod]

I know the Control4 Matrix Amps are EOL but I would seriously consider a used 8 zone C4 amp which you can get for under C$1000.

[Crustyloafer]

3 hours ago, zaphod said:

I know the Control4 Matrix Amps are EOL but I would seriously consider a used 8 zone C4 amp which you can get for under C$1000.

You’re getting right into DIY territory there, not many reputable dealers are going to be willing to get involved with a job involving client purchased secondhand hardware. 

[Amr]

I'll never understand this 24 x 24, who the hell needs 24 Audio inputs?!  Not to mention 24 Audio Zones ... I started with 4x4 and will end up with 8 x 8 that is planned to retire the Speaker Points ...

[thegreatheed]

23 minutes ago, Amr said:

I'll never understand this 24 x 24, who the hell needs 24 Audio inputs?!  Not to mention 24 Audio Zones ... I started with 4x4 and will end up with 8 x 8 that is planned to retire the Speaker Points ...

C4 found a lot of their systems had 16+ zones. A 16x16 is not big enough for many projects that use C4.

[Cyknight]

31 minutes ago, Amr said:

I'll never understand this 24 x 24, who the hell needs 24 Audio inputs?!  Not to mention 24 Audio Zones ... I started with 4x4 and will end up with 8 x 8 that is planned to retire the Speaker Points ...

I have 20 inputs and 18 audio zones...and I have systems much larger than this.

 

Mind you. Id have preferred to ALSO still have a 16x16 (and maybe a 32x32, even instead of 24x24

[Amr]

Am sure there is a need for it, they would not manufacture it in the first place ... I just can’t figure out 20 audio sources. I only stream and listen to music, so my need for input is very minimal.

I use the Audio inputs of the HC250’s to stream from more sources e.g. Chromecast Audio, and echo.  For my Audio Sources, I have Grace IP Radio, Cable and that’s pretty much it!