Olichops Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I am looking to install a new construction C4 System in a 5500 S/F house. I have a closet with 24 centralized lights that will be controlled with keypads. At the whopping price of $180 a dimmer, has anyone tried using Insteon dimmers at only $25. I know there are insteon drivers for C4 but I wanted to hear about the down sides or issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Olichops said: has anyone tried using Insteon dimmers at only $25 Do yourself a favour and stay away (withing C4 or out). These are 100% you get what you pay for. 2 hours ago, Olichops said: I have a closet with 24 centralized lights Why not install a lighting panel then, 3 slot, with 3 8 channel dimmers....cleaner and cheaper. SMHarman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crustyloafer Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Cyknight said: Why not install a lighting panel then, 3 slot, with 3 8 channel dimmers....cleaner and cheaper. This. If all the lights are wired back to a central location then far neater to go for the C4 centralised lighting solution. SMHarman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Word of advice for your 5500sq’ house. Cheap out somewhere else. Not on lighting. Something you will literally use multiple times a day EVERY day for as long as you live there. Also if you’ve talked to a C4 dealer and they agreed it was a good idea to put a wall of C4 dimmers together, go find another dealer. Literally day 2 of training says don’t do that. And this is why panelized lighting exists SMHarman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crustyloafer Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 ^^^ This SMHarman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Main Lighting has to be reliable ,100% reliable, I use Centralized Panels with Normal Toggle Switches on 2 x IO Extenders, robust, never complained, I added more Wireless Lights with Puck Switches and Dimmers for creating a healthy Zigbee Mesh around the house ... My setup is for International Market, all 220 VAC. SMHarman and Zuhair 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olichops Posted June 15, 2019 Author Share Posted June 15, 2019 So what is the downside of having a wall of dimmers verses the panel lights? What happens if one of the circuits goes bad in the panel, does the whole panel get replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Because Zigbee creates a mesh network. All C4 lighting devices (with the exception of the wired KP’s for panelized) are repeaters for this network. When you cram 24 devices that are sending/receiving/repeating in the same area signals get lost. Look up spanning tree protocol and broadcast storms. Same thing happens with Zigbee or any other mesh network. Regarding the reliability of the devices, I have been doing this a long time and have not replaced many failed lighting devices that “just died”. Panelized lighting is “new” in the grand scheme of things, but nothing but success for me and haven’t heard any horror stories. The MOST IMPORTANT thing about all this, is to know what you’re doing and install it correctly Therefore, I would suggest looking for another dealer to help you, otherwise you’ll be back here in a year and a half when your home is done bitching up a storm about how terrible your system is cus some hack job “installed” it. Remember, Control4 ranks dealers on volume, not necessarily quality. So you might find an authorized dealer that will do a much better job and give you more attention. If you are not having success, contact Control4 directly and they will put you in touch with dealers in your area that may have more experience with panelized. Larry and SMHarman 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 Great advice re not putting everything in one closet! I have two condos, different states (I'm a snowbird) each about 2500 sq ft. One dealer spread the light controls around multiple closets (good), the other put 18 all in one closet (not good). Both houses have keypads in every room and hallway, and of course they are part of the mesh, so we got the 18-in-one-closet setup to work fine eventually, but it was effort -- C4 dealer support helped a lot. C4 advanced lighting scenes provide convenience, safety (falls from tripping over stuff in dark rooms kill seniors, seriously), and security. The system is so good, I give it A++. Once both installations went live after initial issues were settled, I have not replaced a single component. Zero failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Olichops said: What happens if one of the circuits goes bad in the panel, does the whole panel get replaced? To add, it wouldn't be the panel, at worst a single module (8 channels or 'dimmers'). And as mentioned, reliability on these has so far proven to be very high. SMHarman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 My 1 issue w c4 lighting is backlighting on the engravings. Good luck matching. If you have 2 or more devices in the bank good luck. Otherwise increase zigbee. Single/double/triple tap and led feedback make it a great option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 9 hours ago, eggzlot said: My 1 issue w c4 lighting is backlighting on the engravings. Good luck matching. If you have 2 or more devices in the bank good luck. Otherwise increase zigbee. Single/double/triple tap and led feedback make it a great option. This really hasn't been an issue since the updated engraving in my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Cyknight said: This really hasn't been an issue since the updated engraving in my experience I have brand new engravings. I won’t hijack this thread but I’ve posted asking for help without much a response. Every single instance with multiple devices in a multi gang box is a disgusting nightmare. I turned off all backlighting because it was so distracting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 19 hours ago, eggzlot said: I have brand new engravings. I won’t hijack this thread but I’ve posted asking for help without much a response. Every single instance with multiple devices in a multi gang box is a disgusting nightmare. I turned off all backlighting because it was so distracting Did you have it set to automatic lighting levels, or 'fully configurated'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Cyknight said: Did you have it set to automatic lighting levels, or 'fully configurated'? there are 3-4 default options and then the customized setting - that what you mean? I've tried all 4 options in that area. And when I did customized I did "apply to" and picked the device right next to it. Its happening in every single instance. So I am just playing with 1 section that has a Keypad Dimmer and a Dimmer side by side. When I make a change to one I do "apply to" the other device so their settings should be identical. I have a feeling it may be different ambient light readings, though I am using the newer black ambient sensor provided by C4. That did not work. Sometimes the ambient sensor is just ~1-2 digits off yet the color is way off so that seems a little touchy to me, if something is ready ambient light at 4 and another at like 6, not sure why the colors would be so noticeably different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 sorry yeah i meant fully customized. I DID see some color differences when using the auto settings, along with a 'matching' ambient light differences - light dimming on LED basically always means a color change, that's pretty much intrinsic. Did you try checking a bank using red backlighting, see if similar difference appear, or just blue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 50 minutes ago, Cyknight said: sorry yeah i meant fully customized. I DID see some color differences when using the auto settings, along with a 'matching' ambient light differences - light dimming on LED basically always means a color change, that's pretty much intrinsic. Did you try checking a bank using red backlighting, see if similar difference appear, or just blue? my original idea was White backlighting when the alarm is off (disarm) and when armed (stay or away) make it red. Both White and Red looked bad. I kept red because no one but me and the wife will see it so who cares. But the white was bad (not worse or better, just as bad as the red) and I was embarresed to have people at my house and see it so I just went to "black" aka off. so when the alarm is off the backlighting is black, when alarm is on its red. I did try normal/default blue, green, gray, light blue, yellow, etc. I even spent 10-20 mins trying to take the one that is a much brighter white and scale it down adding some gray tones in there but I could not get it to look normal. To say I am desperate is an understatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Yeah I'll give you the white. It's a blended white, so it's ALWAYS a paint to match that, sometimes even across a single LED strip it's impossible (which is the whole reason rgb + W exists in my opinion). I'll do some added testing here, see if I see anything similar. I'll be installing over 200 engraved buttons here shortly..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Cyknight said: Yeah I'll give you the white. It's a blended white, so it's ALWAYS a paint to match that, sometimes even across a single LED strip it's impossible (which is the whole reason rgb + W exists in my opinion). I'll do some added testing here, see if I see anything similar. I'll be installing over 200 engraved buttons here shortly..... I've tried using the stock color picker as well as the sliding scale to get an RGB # too. this one is the best example as the device on the left is super bright, the middle one is a tinge green and the one the right is a muted white. yes I did "apply to" so all settings should be 100% identical on these 3 devices. I makes me go insane just looking at these photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Ouch, I don't disagree, though using WHITE is generally best avoided as mentioned, because any one RGB color being a bit brighter can throw off the colour completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, eggzlot said: I've tried using the stock color picker as well as the sliding scale to get an RGB # too. this one is the best example as the device on the left is super bright, the middle one is a tinge green and the one the right is a muted white. yes I did "apply to" so all settings should be 100% identical on these 3 devices. I makes me go insane just looking at these photos. This would drive me nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, LollerAgent said: This would drive me nuts! i have one bank I see right at the top of my stairs. every day after a long day at work, I come home, walk up the stairs and that is the first thing I see, smack in the face. I got so furious I just changed them all to "Black" in the entire house, I just could not look at it anymore. its impossible to see in dim/low light situations, its hogwash and a total pity given how much $$ was spent on the hardware and engravings. Really hurts when you pay a premium for premium hardware and this is what you get. 9 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Ouch, I don't disagree, though using WHITE is generally best avoided as mentioned, because any one RGB color being a bit brighter can throw off the colour completely. If I have time tonight or tomorrow I'll take a photo of the red since I use that still for my alarm setting. You'll see its maybe not as bad but still an eye sore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 18 hours ago, Cyknight said: Ouch, I don't disagree, though using WHITE is generally best avoided as mentioned, because any one RGB color being a bit brighter can throw off the colour completely. Photos taken in my pitch dark house at night. The one with 2 devices isnt awful, certainly not a match - you can see how the one on the right is way more intense/brighter. one photo has 2 of the 3 light up, I know why the middle one isnt but you can see the left/right device are a mismatch. and the 3rd photo has 3 devices light up and again its clear that they are not matched, - heck the device on the left is not even balanced on all 5 lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraydonH Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Eggzlot in that first picture you uploaded it looks like the dimmer on the left has the 'old' light sensor bar. Might just be the picture but the bottom bar should be black in the middle and not clear. I still dont think it will rectify the problem completely but if it is the older clear version definitely get that swapped out to the new black sensor bar. It could help a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 59 minutes ago, BraydonH said: Eggzlot in that first picture you uploaded it looks like the dimmer on the left has the 'old' light sensor bar. Might just be the picture but the bottom bar should be black in the middle and not clear. I still dont think it will rectify the problem completely but if it is the older clear version definitely get that swapped out to the new black sensor bar. It could help a little bit. You are correct but changing out close to 100 is time consuming. I am testing 1-2 areas, some have the new sensor bar and others have the old sensor bar but the first photo actually has the new bar. the photos with 3 devices are using the older ambient sensor, the one with the 2 is using the latest sensor. so yes its better but clearly not the same. and the house was pitch dark so the ambient reading should all the identical. other than white - are there any gray/tan tones that may get closer to matching for daily use? I want to keep the red for when the alarm is on, red backlighting is too jarring to have on all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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