The real reason for SnapAV sale

[David100]

This is all interesting stuff. I have been following the brand since day 1, times change, things happen, i think C4 have done pretty well in an ever evolving landscape.

The biggest thing i believe that has changed and is now the big issue, “the big issue” that has not been addressed, is the diy market. It didnt exsist at the begining, no problem, lets sell boxs to anybody that wants them. Its a much harder sell now with mr & mrs client being pummeled daily with iot options that they can go buy off the shelf from the local warehouse 10 mins after they fell off there chair once there local dealer has been round with there proposal.

as allready susgested the key to all this is to get the platform into more homes, faster. Os3 is looking great at the moment and i believe is c4s usp, the platform, not the box’s. 

I believe c4 should capatalise on the platform, they should offer two platforms. Os3 home & Os3 pro. 

Os3 home should be hardware less and run in app, obviously this product would have limitations and be cut down but would include the most common mainstream drivers for iot devices hue sonos etc, c4 could cost this annually or even one time, heck they could probably charge a small fee for each driver used (in app purchase) No composer no dealer just a wizard in app that will configure and add the select compatible devices into your system & what where when for limted automation by the end user. I believe the product roomie worked similar this way

os3 pro would be the fully fledged dealer based product with all the boxs and automation a client with the dosh could possibly want.

the client that bruised there arse earlier on now have access to the platform once they get back from the warehouse with there new light bulb or doorbell, c4 still makes a sale albeit a smaller one however in more qauntitys. 

My opinion anyway

 

[blub]

Except they have already said that isn't the case. They have publicly stated all c4 dealers requirements will stay the same post acquisition

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

That doesn't mean that some of the SnapAV dealers won't become Control4 dealers as well to get some piece of the pie....

[blub]

This is all interesting stuff. I have been following the brand since day 1, times change, things happen, i think C4 have done pretty well in an ever evolving landscape.
The biggest thing i believe that has changed and is now the big issue, “the big issue” that has not been addressed, is the diy market. It didnt exsist at the begining, no problem, lets sell boxs to anybody that wants them. Its a much harder sell now with mr & mrs client being pummeled daily with iot options that they can go buy off the shelf from the local warehouse 10 mins after they fell off there chair once there local dealer has been round with there proposal.
as allready susgested the key to all this is to get the platform into more homes, faster. Os3 is looking great at the moment and i believe is c4s usp, the platform, not the box’s. 
I believe c4 should capatalise on the platform, they should offer two platforms. Os3 home & Os3 pro. 
Os3 home should be hardware less and run in app, obviously this product would have limitations and be cut down but would include the most common mainstream drivers for iot devices hue sonos etc, c4 could cost this annually or even one time, heck they could probably charge a small fee for each driver used (in app purchase) No composer no dealer just a wizard in app that will configure and add the select compatible devices into your system & what where when for limted automation by the end user. I believe the product roomie worked similar this way
os3 pro would be the fully fledged dealer based product with all the boxs and automation a client with the dosh could possibly want.
the client that bruised there arse earlier on now have access to the platform once they get back from the warehouse with there new light bulb or doorbell, c4 still makes a sale albeit a smaller one however in more qauntitys. 
My opinion anyway
 

Since growth wasn't good it most likely can only be achieved by lowering entry cost and addressing DIY.
Sell ea3's for 300 to 500, eat for 1200 to 1500 and make the whole ecosystem based on subscriptions and price it by project size.
To keep the dealer happy they could get a cut of the subscription based on zip codes or whatever....

C4s argument for being dealer based was that this ensures high quality. Going hardware less, like with an app will likely compromise the stability of the system. I think the Control4 controller in conjunction with the software is the main reason for the solid platform - going to be an IoT system certainly isn't what Control4 wants and should be.

I doubt that a separation between DIY system software and dealer software makes sense.
Anyone who has been with Control4 in the 1st days knows that setting up a small to mid-size system with a TV, AVR, contacts and lights is a no brainer for anyone who has grown up with software and hardware - the more complex it gets the more a knowledgeable dealer pays off.
So devices could be grouped in categories of DIY or dealer installable or it could depend on the project size
My 2cents

[knowitall]

I’m interested to see what happens. I think dealer only stays, but it’s going to be a lot “looser”. Curious what happens to Salt Lake City headquarter and where tech support ends up. 

 

They want to sell their products but there are going to be more and more lousy incomplete installs leaving upset end users. 

 

Golden age of freelance c4 programming tho. 

 

Remember the TV “calibration tours”? 

[Larry]

"Do you want to be rich selling to the poor or poor selling to the rich?"   Great line, @chesterwilson.

I've heard it said this way: "Sell to people who ride in limos, you ride in subways.  Sell to people who ride in subways, you ride in limos"

So true. Years of developing/selling software taught me this over-and-over.  I wish I had listened and understood earlier.

Despite GIYF, I couldn't find an attribution for the subway line.

C4 will continue to struggle financially without a DIY offering that lives in symbiosis with the dealer model.  IMHO.

[blub]

"Do you want to be rich selling to the poor or poor selling to the rich?"   Great line, [mention=125408]chesterwilson[/mention].
I've heard it said this way: "Sell to people who ride in limos, you ride in subways.  Sell to people who ride in subways, you ride in limos"
So true. Years of developing/selling software taught me this over-and-over.  I wish I had listened and understood earlier.
Despite GIYF, I couldn't find an attribution for the subway line.
C4 will continue to struggle financially without a DIY offering that lives in symbiosis with the dealer model.  IMHO.

Exactly my saying....

[therockhr]

Control4 should have never become a public company. The custom home automation business is just not something that has the high growth Wall Street wants. 

The sale to SnapAV means the dealer model will stay and will probably stay somewhat tightly controlled as it is now. Might have been different if say a company like Honeywell would have bought them. Would have probably been dealer focused but the software would have been easy to get. 

[eggzlot]

29 minutes ago, C4junkie said:

It's OK to answer the questions!

That's because unlike our Chinese friends who seem to love to spam this fabulous site and resource - We all live in democracies!

So go ahead.. have your say....

Freedom of speech is OK!

How do our Chinese friends handle the HDMI cartel?

 

[msgreenf]

these facts are not facts...but ok...and facts can't be questions...

[Zuhair]

these facts are not facts...but ok...and facts can't be questions...

Maybe questionable facts?!

[-defunct-]

I'll give it a go.

1. Nope, new to this forum, and I couldn't care less.

2. This is obviously True for good reason.

3. It won't kill the product, so no. It may be exclusive, which gives more value, but it won't die because it is still the best home automation platform available.

4. Sure, I'll agree to that, but as the answer above, it's exclusive and for good reason. Sales might go up, but there will be a huge amount of people that wouldn't know how to configure it. Composer HE exists and is the solution for the homeowner. Same with When/Then.

5.No, lol, and that is silly to think. Composer HE is fine, but there are things in Composer Pro I would not want any customer using and opening it up would make the dealer certification pointless.

Could HE have more features? Sure, that can be debated. Probably the more appropriate way to ask about more access.

[cdepaola]

Its interesting that 70 other suitors looked at Control4 and not a single one even put in a low ball bid, this is somewhat telling. 

SnapAV and Control4 will be an interesting synergy and one I think has to be kept completely separate entities as they each sell to very different segments.  SnapAV is the "cheap" brand while C4 is the luxury brand.  Homeowners in the ultra high end market aren't putting in SnapAV speakers or networking gear. 

Control4 should have just stuck to what it knew and stayed private, instead they though they could grow by going public but not adapting.  To grow they needed to get product prices down or offer a line of products that were cheaper and diy.  This goes against what they want to do, which is a perfectly good choice, BUT, its also a growth limiting factor.

 

[mstafford388]

3 hours ago, C4junkie said:

Here you go ol sport, they were in a post above, but I'll repeat them just in case you missed them...

Do the quick Q/A!

(go on take a try)... they really aren't that difficult! 

Go on... you can do it! ....It's OK! (P.S nobody will call you a "liberal"...)

You can even answer them ... and vote for Trump... that is allowed and is perfectly fine! 

Fact ONE

Several end users around this forum have been telling their dealer friends on this forum for years now why the Dealer only model (in it's existing state) would in the end, be the death knell of the C4 platform. Is this fact true? Y/N 

Fact TWO. 

There is/was nothing the end user community could actually do about it. Control4 would not listen to us directly. That's because the end user is not Control's
"customer". This has always been the confusing marketing misinformation (aka "spin") put out by the glossy pamphlets and marketing. Control4's "customer" has always been the dealerships. Not the end consumer. Therefore the only people capable of bringing the necessary change to the company to change the dealer only model to make it work for all - were the dealers. Do all dealers now understand why end users couldn't do anything about the situation? Y/N

Fact THREE

Dealers (most of them) - have sat on their hands. Comfortable with the "status quo", they have clearly never pressed the company hard enough for change. If they had, we would still have a viable company - growing sales to take on the likes of Amazon, Apple and Google etc al. Do all dealers now understand why their stubborness on this matter will in the end kill the product? Y/N

Fact FOUR.

We don't have sustainable growth of the product and platform in the marketplace. This is now proven by the sell out of you all to SnapAV. And the comments by the above linked post. Will you now acknowledge the continual shut down of composer to "dealer only", instead of opening it up to all who use the product - has thwarted sales and mass market take-up of the product? Y/N  

Fact FIVE.

Change was the only way to ensure a long lasting, growing and robust platform. Do you now finally understand why there has always been the need to open up Composer for all to use? Y/N 

Hey now we have some questions.  

1. So for "years" you've been telling us the dealer only model will die.  I'll give you that as a fact.  other facts...every single one of those years Control4 business has grown at reasonable rates, and rates comparable to other technology companies.  My dealer's revenue is tracking to be up 40-50% this year to the point where we have conversations about sustainable growth and are we growing to quickly.  Just because you say the dealer model is going to kill everything over and over, that doesn't make it a fact. 

2. I've personally been involved in several scenarios where someone from Control4 corporate has engaged with an end user directly and something has changed because of it.  I've seen bugs fixed, drivers edited, features added, etc.  This one is pointless to argue because you don't feel personally heard which I get is frustrating but that doesn't mean Control4 never listens.  

3. How the hell do you know what "most" dealers are doing?  I'd imagine you've interacted with less than .01% of them.   Again just because you say something doesn't make it a fact.  There is a very active community of dealers constantly working with Control4 on testing, suggestions, ideas.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  

4/5. I'm not going down the composer rabbit hole, or the reasons for the acquisition.  It's pointless and I don't have the energy. 

[cdepaola]

2 minutes ago, mstafford388 said:

Hey now we have some questions.  

1. So for "years" you've been telling us the dealer only model will die.  I'll give you that as a fact.  other facts...every single one of those years Control4 business has grown at reasonable rates, and rates comparable to other technology companies.  My dealer's revenue is tracking to be up 40-50% this year to the point where we have conversations about sustainable growth and are we growing to quickly.  Just because you say the dealer model is going to kill everything over and over, that doesn't make it a fact. 

In your business 40-50% growth would scare the s-h-i-t out of me and I would continue as if I had 10% so when the housing market and or stock market takes a down turn I haven't built myself up to be too big to sustain anymore.  I'm not envious of those that choose the residential market and its why my business focuses on municipal and small business.  While they too can have problems they never stop building firehouse, police stations, etc.  Lots of amazing A/V,  automation, opportunities that are just a bit safer.

But congrats on what sounds like an amazing year! 

[mstafford388]

53 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

In your business 40-50% growth would scare the s-h-i-t out of me and I would continue as if I had 10% so when the housing market and or stock market takes a down turn I haven't built myself up to be too big to sustain anymore.  I'm not envious of those that choose the residential market and its why my business focuses on municipal and small business.  While they too can have problems they never stop building firehouse, police stations, etc.  Lots of amazing A/V,  automation, opportunities that are just a bit safer.

But congrats on what sounds like an amazing year! 

Yes the growth is slightly terrifying but at the end of the day it's really hard to say no to revenue.  Luckily it's been more growth in the size of jobs not the amount so it's a bit more controlled. 

[blub]

I'll give it a go.
1. Nope, new to this forum, and I couldn't care less.
2. This is obviously True for good reason.
3. It won't kill the product, so no. It may be exclusive, which gives more value, but it won't die because it is still the best home automation platform available.
4. Sure, I'll agree to that, but as the answer above, it's exclusive and for good reason. Sales might go up, but there will be a huge amount of people that wouldn't know how to configure it. Composer HE exists and is the solution for the homeowner. Same with When/Then.
5.No, lol, and that is silly to think. Composer HE is fine, but there are things in Composer Pro I would not want any customer using and opening it up would make the dealer certification pointless.
Could HE have more features? Sure, that can be debated. Probably the more appropriate way to ask about more access.

If C4 is the best HA system available they wouldn't have had such a hard time to sell the company - so for anyone of those alleged 70 interested parties it obviously wasn't the best choice...

Since I don't have Pro what are the features within Pro which can be hazardous in customer hand?

[blub]

Its interesting that 70 other suitors looked at Control4 and not a single one even put in a low ball bid, this is somewhat telling. 
SnapAV and Control4 will be an interesting synergy and one I think has to be kept completely separate entities as they each sell to very different segments.  SnapAV is the "cheap" brand while C4 is the luxury brand.  Homeowners in the ultra high end market aren't putting in SnapAV speakers or networking gear. 
Control4 should have just stuck to what it knew and stayed private, instead they though they could grow by going public but not adapting.  To grow they needed to get product prices down or offer a line of products that were cheaper and diy.  This goes against what they want to do, which is a perfectly good choice, BUT, its also a growth limiting factor.
 

Control4 went public because the primary investors wanted their money/investment back - they only choice was an IPO at the time

[chopedogg88]

I think you are confusing best product with best company...they are 2 very different things!

[blub]

Hey now we have some questions.  
1. So for "years" you've been telling us the dealer only model will die.  I'll give you that as a fact.  other facts...every single one of those years Control4 business has grown at reasonable rates, and rates comparable to other technology companies.  My dealer's revenue is tracking to be up 40-50% this year to the point where we have conversations about sustainable growth and are we growing to quickly.  Just because you say the dealer model is going to kill everything over and over, that doesn't make it a fact. 
2. I've personally been involved in several scenarios where someone from Control4 corporate has engaged with an end user directly and something has changed because of it.  I've seen bugs fixed, drivers edited, features added, etc.  This one is pointless to argue because you don't feel personally heard which I get is frustrating but that doesn't mean Control4 never listens.  
3. How the hell do you know what "most" dealers are doing?  I'd imagine you've interacted with less than .01% of them.   Again just because you say something doesn't make it a fact.  There is a very active community of dealers constantly working with Control4 on testing, suggestions, ideas.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  
4/5. I'm not going down the composer rabbit hole, or the reasons for the acquisition.  It's pointless and I don't have the energy. 

If ur business has growth that is great but C4s quarterly filing show not the growth you are experiencing

If one writes an email to Control4 they listen and take care of it. But it is not their primary way of support - if that would be the case the knowledge base would be open and they would have an online form or forum to file bug reports for end users - so sorry that's a mood point you made there

[-defunct-]

16 minutes ago, blub said:

If C4 is the best HA system available they wouldn't have had such a hard time to sell the company - so for anyone of those alleged 70 interested parties it obviously wasn't the best choice...

Since I don't have Pro what are the features within Pro which can be hazardous in customer hand?

No idea about selling the company part, but the HA system wouldn't be sellable if it didn't work. No homeowner would want it if it didn't provide something over Crestron, Vantage, URC, or Elan. It's easy to install and configure once learned.

 

Pro allows creation of drivers, registering systems with C4, and gives access to a few wizards and diagnostic tools. It also allows adding devices and making the connections between devices. Basically they could break their whole system and might need training to be able to fix it.

[mstafford388]

9 minutes ago, blub said:

If ur business has growth that is great but C4s quarterly filing show not the growth you are experiencing

If one writes an email to Control4 they listen and take care of it. But it is not their primary way of support - if that would be the case the knowledge base would be open and they would have an online form or forum to file bug reports for end users - so sorry that's a mood point you made there

It's completely unreasonable to expect a company like Control4 to grow at those rates but 12-15% which without checking and doing the math is likely the ballpark that they fall is decent growth.  I was simply making the point that the sky is not falling with the dealer model like some people think.  They are growing.  My company is growing.  We are expecting the housing market to slow down in 18 months(ish) but by no means am I feeling like this is the death of custom integration.  Control4 is not equiped to open the floodgates to end users and even begin to support that.  Regardless of people's feelings toward the matter I just cant see a scenario where that makes sense even if it does restrict future income.    

[msgreenf]

Part of running a business is also knowing the customers you want and who you don't...not all customers are good customers and not all customers are profitable

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

[msgreenf]

Ok wap

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[eggzlot]

24 minutes ago, C4junkie said:

Ah yes the old "consumer is a dumb arse" attitude ... justifies it every time!

(Even in this modern age of Google, the internet and  AI !!!! )

 

Fight the worldwide hdmi conspiracy cartel

fight the good fight my friend

[blub]

Ok wap

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

He's a member since 2010, so I doubt wap had started multiple accounts back then....