C4 vs the rest

[Matt Falce]

Hi, 

I have been a C4 user for about 10 years. I am still running 1.74. I have not upgraded for the simple reason that I have composer pro that I believe if I upgraded I will not be able to gain access again. 

So here I am, I have 6 remotes with 3 still working. I have 30 or so switches and about 5 have or are failing.  My main controller is an HC300.  A media player that I haven't used in years. Two 8 zone amps with about 12 wired zones used. My concord 4 alarm (also aging) connects to C4 for motions and triggers. 

 Ok So here is my question. do I upgraded to the most recent version and equipment or do I scrap it and go to the off the shelf stuff like "smart Things"  or something better. 

Thanks in advance

[-defunct-]

You're correct that upgrading will likely not allow you to have Pro access.

 

Also note upgrading will likely be an entire repurchase since a lot of devices and hardware are not supported in OS3.

 

I don't know what other system you would want though.

Composer HE and When>>Then give quite a bit of freedom to control what your system does.

[Matt Falce]

Thanks for your reply. It seems that there is something called smart things or smart home may be able to mimic how I currently use C4. Granted 10 years ago what is now available off the shelf was even heard of in C4. Also I am aware what C4 can do now is nothing like what it did back then.   My original purchase was around 30k, I assume to replace everything I have today will double that.

[dcovach]

For a small investment you could have a fairly up to date system that feels almost new.

Only your HC300 would need to be replaced with possibly an EA3 controller.  You would get some native audio streaming services included.  There's so much more to list.   I'm not sure which media player you have but everything else in your system can integrate with the new controller.  By the sounds of it, you don't really need composer pro for the type of system that you have.  You can do a lot with Composer Home Edition software. A LOT.  Is your network newer or is it also 10 years old?

 

 

[Drake0508]

I left hubs like Smartthings and Vera and have not looked back. While it can do a lot of things that you are already doing, it’s terribly frustrating to have most of your automations dependent on the cloud. I had so many outages that my wife was ready to throw the things out the window.


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[Amr]

Any Hub-based systems are a total miss and you are on your own, drivers that never updated, outages that never explained etc. C4 is the best among Pro Systems cause it works and you can have a bit of freedom programing automations and scenes not like Crestron, Savant, etc.

[eggzlot]

I mean you are posting on a c4 forums, so I think you'll get some fairly Pro-C4 responses.  If you just wanted to control lights and HVAC I'd almost say go to a hub.  If you want to include audio and video and security (locks, sensors, cameras) and all the other stuff, stick with c4.  do an upgrade, buy Composer HE and you can still do ~90% of what you can do now with Composer Pro and you'll get a better overall experience.

When friends see what I've done with my house they always ask about C4, its not for everyone which is why I mention if you want just simple lights/HVAC control there are cheaper options.  If you want automation vs control and want to do it over a broad spectrum of devices, C4 is a way better solution.

[av4jn]

If you don't have access to CP or be able to get C4 gear at dealer margin price or even lower. I would not recommend anyone owning C4. Of course, I really like the way they marketing their product through FB and others, they use other architecture building/house and add number of their switch/speakers/TVs here and there and they promote their products. Anyway, I have shares investment in entire Nasdaq and would love to see people wasting $ on these product, but IMO it's not worth it.

 

 

[-defunct-]

22 minutes ago, control4diy said:

If you don't have access to CP or be able to get C4 gear at dealer margin price or even lower. I would not recommend anyone owning C4. Of course, I really like the way they marketing their product through FB and others, they use other architecture building/house and add number of their switch/speakers/TVs here and there and they promote their products. Anyway, I have shares investment in entire Nasdaq and would love to see people wasting $ on these product, but IMO it's not worth it.

 

 

Your username pretty much sums it up too.

Majority of people aren't DIY enthusiasts, so keep dreaming.

[av4jn]

5 minutes ago, Dunamivora said:

Your username pretty much sums it up too.

Majority of people aren't DIY enthusiasts, so keep dreaming.

It's all about luck, I started C4 +10 years ago with a few of my buddies/relatives are dealers, in addition I know a few channels that C4 send their product out for testing/promote, and get a very good price from them after.

[dcovach]

14 minutes ago, control4diy said:

It's all about luck, I started C4 +10 years ago with a few of my buddies/relatives are dealers, in addition I know a few channels that C4 send their product out for testing/promote, and get a very good price from them after.

From your experience, what's better or comparable at the c4 price point?  

[av4jn]

5 minutes ago, dcovach said:

From your experience, what's better or comparable at the c4 price point?  

when I said "even lower" dealer margin price, I meant who you know (networking), after a dinner and a few beers with private channels buddies sometimes I can get free C4 gears too. Just so you know, there is no exact or perfect price point in regarding to any products. It's all about your networking and who you know.

[dcovach]

1 hour ago, control4diy said:

If you don't have access to CP or be able to get C4 gear at dealer margin price or even lower. I would not recommend anyone owning C4. Of course, I really like the way they marketing their product through FB and others, they use other architecture building/house and add number of their switch/speakers/TVs here and there and they promote their products. Anyway, I have shares investment in entire Nasdaq and would love to see people wasting $ on these product, but IMO it's not worth it.

 

 

Sorry, I meant to quote this.  I get what you're saying from your reply above this post.  I'm not trying to attack but just wondering what you've seen out there that compares to C4 at the  msrp price point?   I don't get how you consider it a waste of money if it can't be purchased at cost or below cost.  That's why I'm wondering what your opinion is on what else is out there that someone (the OP) could consider that compares to C4.  Even if he had to start over.  I suppose it all depends on the current need/want.

 Myself, I wouldn't advise someone to start over with something new or different if they already have 90% of what they need to move forward.

[Matt Falce]

16 hours ago, dcovach said:

For a small investment you could have a fairly up to date system that feels almost new.

Only your HC300 would need to be replaced with possibly an EA3 controller.  You would get some native audio streaming services included.  There's so much more to list.   I'm not sure which media player you have but everything else in your system can integrate with the new controller.  By the sounds of it, you don't really need composer pro for the type of system that you have.  You can do a lot with Composer Home Edition software. A LOT.  Is your network newer or is it also 10 years old?

 

 

Thank you 

[Matt Falce]

14 hours ago, Drake0508 said:

I left hubs like Smartthings and Vera and have not looked back. While it can do a lot of things that you are already doing, it’s terribly frustrating to have most of your automations dependent on the cloud. I had so many outages that my wife was ready to throw the things out the window.


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Good Point

[Matt Falce]

5 hours ago, eggzlot said:

I mean you are posting on a c4 forums, so I think you'll get some fairly Pro-C4 responses.  If you just wanted to control lights and HVAC I'd almost say go to a hub.  If you want to include audio and video and security (locks, sensors, cameras) and all the other stuff, stick with c4.  do an upgrade, buy Composer HE and you can still do ~90% of what you can do now with Composer Pro and you'll get a better overall experience.

When friends see what I've done with my house they always ask about C4, its not for everyone which is why I mention if you want just simple lights/HVAC control there are cheaper options.  If you want automation vs control and want to do it over a broad spectrum of devices, C4 is a way better solution.

Thanks 

[ekohn00]

20 hours ago, Matt Falce said:

 Ok So here is my question. do I upgraded to the most recent version and equipment or do I scrap it and go to the off the shelf stuff like "smart Things"  or something better. 

so you have 30 switches, 12 used audio zones and an alarm. I'd want to consider C4 just on not forklifting the core of the system. So how much do you really need the PRO version? Are you constantly adding devices/drivers? if not, maybe upgrade and use one of the fine folks here to remotely add/delete stuff and do PRO changes only.

 

[Matt Lowe]

21 hours ago, Matt Falce said:

Hi, 

I have been a C4 user for about 10 years. I am still running 1.74. I have not upgraded for the simple reason that I have composer pro that I believe if I upgraded I will not be able to gain access again. 

So here I am, I have 6 remotes with 3 still working. I have 30 or so switches and about 5 have or are failing.  My main controller is an HC300.  A media player that I haven't used in years. Two 8 zone amps with about 12 wired zones used. My concord 4 alarm (also aging) connects to C4 for motions and triggers. 

 Ok So here is my question. do I upgraded to the most recent version and equipment or do I scrap it and go to the off the shelf stuff like "smart Things"  or something better. 

Thanks in advance

If you have kept your system running on 1.74 all this time, then upgrading to the most current thing should be no problem as you will likely keep the equipment for just as long. you really likely only need to upgrade the main controller and the remotes with a dealer. the alarm you could get  a dsc panel and likely do it your self. As for pro, likely unnecessary you can do just about everything on HE and you can get a remotely dealer to help with the rest. But with the rate it sound like you are swapping equipment I will assume it is a non issue.  I still prefer control4 as the level of integration between all of the devices is still superior than just about everything else on the market.

[Drake0508]

Despite having a Control4 system, I am still a big fan of Savant. There is a fair amount of customization that the customer can do. Having said that, it works with far less products and certainly doesn’t offer the type of freedom that Composer HE does. If you want DIY, stay in that genre. My advice is that once you’ve lived with the DIY solution and figure out exactly what it is you want to control, ditch that setup and invest in a Control4 system. The reliability alone is worth the extra money. I wouldn’t go back. 

[vitali]

1. 1.7.4 - is not zigbee it is Embernet. if you will simply change controller, you can say goodbye to all your lights and etc.

2. to keep hc-300  10 years old - not good idea

3. 1.7.4 - it is so old - new OS - nothing same with it.

what I would do

1. back up your project

2. upgrade you OS to 1.8 and all your Embernet network/devices to Zigbee pro

3. upgrade your system to 2.5.3 ( I think HC-300 doesnt go higher)

4. find somr HC-800 and replace hc-300 with hc-800. our system should work pretty good. 

Otherwise you will need to replace all you light switches and remotes.

I did same stuff 2 times- takes time. but you have no choice. unless you want to replace all your lighting. with something else.

[Matt Falce]

On 9/6/2019 at 6:12 PM, ekohn00 said:

 

I agree, I am pretty much built. I may add a door lock, but who knows what will be available. However more times than not when I need to add something no one is available. 

[Matt Falce]

18 hours ago, vitali said:

1. 1.7.4 - is not zigbee it is Embernet. if you will simply change controller, you can say goodbye to all your lights and etc.

2. to keep hc-300  10 years old - not good idea

3. 1.7.4 - it is so old - new OS - nothing same with it.

what I would do

1. back up your project

2. upgrade you OS to 1.8 and all your Embernet network/devices to Zigbee pro

3. upgrade your system to 2.5.3 ( I think HC-300 doesnt go higher)

4. find somr HC-800 and replace hc-300 with hc-800. our system should work pretty good. 

Otherwise you will need to replace all you light switches and remotes.

I did same stuff 2 times- takes time. but you have no choice. unless you want to replace all your lighting. with something else.

That is what I was afraid of.  Are you saying my system will be dead after 2.5.3?  I know I will lose a few LCD touchscreen and 4 of my first generation remotes. I assumed everything else would work. 

[dcovach]

3 hours ago, Matt Falce said:

That is what I was afraid of.  Are you saying my system will be dead after 2.5.3?  I know I will lose a few LCD touchscreen and 4 of my first generation remotes. I assumed everything else would work. 

Not necessarily. I'm available to work with new clients remotely on occasion.  If you're thinking of moving forward, PM me.

 

 

[Drake0508]

Any Hub-based systems are a total miss and you are on your own, drivers that never updated, outages that never explained etc. C4 is the best among Pro Systems cause it works and you can have a bit of freedom programing automations and scenes not like Crestron, Savant, etc.

 

And to strengthen that statement... another DIY platform is shutting down. This time it’s from the folks at Best Buy.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/6/20853671/best-buy-connect-insignia-smart-plug-wifi-freezer-mobile-app-shutdown-november-6

 

 

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[crazybuppie]

On 9/7/2019 at 7:41 PM, Matt Falce said:

That is what I was afraid of.  Are you saying my system will be dead after 2.5.3?  I know I will lose a few LCD touchscreen and 4 of my first generation remotes. I assumed everything else would work. 

The HC300 cannot be updated past 2.5.3. I agree with the instructions given above...once you get your system to zibgee pro and to 2.5.3, make a backup, remove the 300 and install an EA3. I think you'd have to reidentify all your zigbee devices but that can be done. 

But to echo what most people are saying, composer past 2.0 is licensed only to dealers. HE does a ton these days, so unless you swap your cable box weekly, i am not sure what advantage it would give you once your system is up and running on 3.0.