EverAction Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 15 hours ago, time2jet said: Here is the system. There are only 4 devices currently on. Lost 6 in the SSID change. But right now, that’s not the problem. Have a look (the screenshots overlap) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Why in the world would you think that's not the problem? Did you ever think that since you have two Sonos players un-accounted for possibly in the realm of WiFi, Mesh, Wired setup could be looping your network. Once again your assumptions are getting the better of you. Let's eliminate them from the mix while you're troubleshooting all of this since you can't control them anyways. Keep them unplugged from power until further notice. So what I'm looking at is a Playbar that's using WiFi (as denoted by WM:1) and directly pairing in the surrounds and subs (as denoted by WM:2). You said one Playbar is wired. Is this Master Bedroom the wired Playbar? If it is, it's not setup in wired mode. Please change your Sonos configuration from WiFi to wired. If done successfully, that Master Bedroom Playbar should be denoted as WM:0. EDIT: Sorry just re-read and saw you have 6 (!) missing Sonos players on your network. Unplug power to all of those during troubleshooting. EDIT2: Re-read your old post, you're absolutely sure the Playbar isn't wired up correct? If so just unplug the ethernet wire from the Playbar and keep it in WiFi mode. Unplug power to the 6 missing Sonos players. Give everything time to settle down and observe if you have any major network issues going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 8, 2019 Author Share Posted October 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, EverAction said: Why in the world would you think that's not the problem? Did you ever think that since you have two Sonos players un-accounted for possibly in the realm of WiFi, Mesh, Wired setup could be looping your network. Once again your assumptions are getting the better of you. Let's eliminate them from the mix while you're troubleshooting all of this since you can't control them anyways. Keep them unplugged from power until further notice. So what I'm looking at is a Playbar that's using WiFi (as denoted by WM:1) and directly pairing in the surrounds and subs (as denoted by WM:2). You said one Playbar is wired. Is this Master Bedroom the wired Playbar? If it is, it's not setup in wired mode. Please change your Sonos configuration from WiFi to wired. If done successfully, that Master Bedroom Playbar should be denoted as WM:0. EDIT: Sorry just re-read and saw you have 6 (!) missing Sonos players on your network. Unplug power to all of those during troubleshooting. EDIT2: Re-read your old post, you're absolutely sure the Playbar isn't wired up correct? If so just unplug the ethernet wire from the Playbar and keep it in WiFi mode. Unplug power to the 6 missing Sonos players. Give everything time to settle down and observe if you have any major network issues going forward. Thanks so much! Why in the world would you think that's not the problem? Did you ever think that since you have two Sonos players un-accounted for possibly in the realm of WiFi, Mesh, Wired setup could be looping your network. Once again your assumptions are getting the better of you. Only meaning that the SSID changed and I never re-added the other 6. So what I'm looking at is a Playbar that's using WiFi (as denoted by WM:1) and directly pairing in the surrounds and subs (as denoted by WM:2). You said one Playbar is wired. Is this Master Bedroom the wired Playbar? If it is, it's not setup in wired mode. Please change your Sonos configuration from WiFi to wired. If done successfully, that Master Bedroom Playbar should be denoted as WM:0. Sorry, in a prior post, I indicated that NOTHING was connected via ethernet. There is an ethernet cable connected to the master playbar that is just tucked inside the equipment box, never connected. EDIT: Sorry just re-read and saw you have 6 (!) missing Sonos players on your network. Unplug power to all of those during troubleshooting. Only a playbar that you don't see is plugged in. I will unplug that. The other 5 speakers are unplugged and have been since the switch over several weeks ago. EDIT2: Re-read your old post, you're absolutely sure the Playbar isn't wired up correct? If so just unplug the ethernet wire from the Playbar and keep it in WiFi mode. Unplug power to the 6 missing Sonos players. Give everything time to settle down and observe if you have any major network issues going forward. I will unplug that ethernet cable at the master Playbar If I could interject some info here... This weekend I removed the main switch and used only the Modem>Router>PoE+ Switch>4 WAPs to test and although there was a slight improvement, it was negligible. (I rebooted each device in sequence). Which leads me to believe that there is a chance "loops" are not the issue... Now, this doesn't exclude wireless devices causing issues (Sonos for instance). But I do feel l like the power settings and the channels for the SSID's in the WAPs could be a potential issue. I will screenshot the inSSIDer screen tonight so you can see where the WAPs are channelwise and powerwise and how they are reading. I have a second SX-8P PoE+ switch new in the box. I might try to install that instead of the one on currently on the system. That could eliminate that as an issue. Leading me to believe it could be the modem, router, cabling or WAP's (once the PoE switch is eliminated as a potential). There are 2 WAPs that seem to be broadcasting very good signal and connect to the internet. I moved one of the "good" one's to the cable that has a "bad" one to no avail. What I didn't try, was moving one of the "bad" ones to the good one's cable and location. I have to try that tonight. I know this is a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverAction Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, time2jet said: Thanks so much! Why in the world would you think that's not the problem? Did you ever think that since you have two Sonos players un-accounted for possibly in the realm of WiFi, Mesh, Wired setup could be looping your network. Once again your assumptions are getting the better of you. Only meaning that the SSID changed and I never re-added the other 6. So what I'm looking at is a Playbar that's using WiFi (as denoted by WM:1) and directly pairing in the surrounds and subs (as denoted by WM:2). You said one Playbar is wired. Is this Master Bedroom the wired Playbar? If it is, it's not setup in wired mode. Please change your Sonos configuration from WiFi to wired. If done successfully, that Master Bedroom Playbar should be denoted as WM:0. Sorry, in a prior post, I indicated that NOTHING was connected via ethernet. There is an ethernet cable connected to the master playbar that is just tucked inside the equipment box, never connected. EDIT: Sorry just re-read and saw you have 6 (!) missing Sonos players on your network. Unplug power to all of those during troubleshooting. Only a playbar that you don't see is plugged in. I will unplug that. The other 5 speakers are unplugged and have been since the switch over several weeks ago. EDIT2: Re-read your old post, you're absolutely sure the Playbar isn't wired up correct? If so just unplug the ethernet wire from the Playbar and keep it in WiFi mode. Unplug power to the 6 missing Sonos players. Give everything time to settle down and observe if you have any major network issues going forward. I will unplug that ethernet cable at the master Playbar If I could interject some info here... This weekend I removed the main switch and used only the Modem>Router>PoE+ Switch>4 WAPs to test and although there was a slight improvement, it was negligible. (I rebooted each device in sequence). Which leads me to believe that there is a chance "loops" are not the issue... Now, this doesn't exclude wireless devices causing issues (Sonos for instance). But I do feel l like the power settings and the channels for the SSID's in the WAPs could be a potential issue. I will screenshot the inSSIDer screen tonight so you can see where the WAPs are channelwise and powerwise and how they are reading. I have a second SX-8P PoE+ switch new in the box. I might try to install that instead of the one on currently on the system. That could eliminate that as an issue. Leading me to believe it could be the modem, router, cabling or WAP's (once the PoE switch is eliminated as a potential). There are 2 WAPs that seem to be broadcasting very good signal and connect to the internet. I moved one of the "good" one's to the cable that has a "bad" one to no avail. What I didn't try, was moving one of the "bad" ones to the good one's cable and location. I have to try that tonight. I know this is a lot. Just remember to take 1 step at a time and give it time to normalize before taking another step. If you make too many moves at once you won't know where you're at with this. Time2Jet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 11:15 AM, EverAction said: Just remember to take 1 step at a time and give it time to normalize before taking another step. If you make too many moves at once you won't know where you're at with this. Well... during my one step at a time approach, I refocused to the hardware and setup. I am offering this information because I feel like I might be on to something. After much careful combing of settings, etc (including the original first recommendation to split out the SSID's) and persitence, I finally have 2 of the 4 WX-1 WAP's working. When I say working, I mean that the wireless signal in their general vicinity is strong and the Xfinity Speed Tests of the internet are registering over 300 mbps. The remaining 2 WAPs still aren't registering good wireless signal and if I can get to the internet, the speeds are ridiculously slow 2-15 mbps. So here's what I did to further diagnose. I made sure the WAP settings were all exactly the same. I physically exchanged the WAPs from a working to non working area (flip flopped) and to my surprise... the areas remained the same. The areas where one WAP was working, works just as well with a WAP that wasn't (isn't) working. This shocked me... meaning that it had to be one of two things (I think?), either the cabling is bad to the area that has given me problems... or the port on the PoE switch is bad. I will test the ports tonight by simply flip flopping the cables from a "non-working" to a "working" to see if I can eliminate the switch. I am assuming I can eliminate it. So here is the question that I have at this point at (until further testing tonight). Could a short/cross-talk/bad termination, etc. in the cables to 1 or 2 WAPs have caused utter mayhem on the entire network (both lan and wan)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverAction Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, time2jet said: Could a short/cross-talk/bad termination, etc. in the cables to 1 or 2 WAPs have caused utter mayhem on the entire network (both lan and wan)? There's a lot of variables involved with that question, but the short answer is yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, EverAction said: There's a lot of variables involved with that question, but the short answer is yes. I'm going to run an independent cable to that WAP tonight as well. That should tell the story I believe. I want it to be the reason, because I am out of ideas (other than fixing the Sonos). EverAction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 21 hours ago, time2jet said: I'm going to run an independent cable to that WAP tonight as well. That should tell the story I believe. I want it to be the reason, because I am out of ideas (other than fixing the Sonos). If you have a decent size install invest in some cable testing devices before you run and terminate new wire maybe you just need to re-terminate one end of the current cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Good news!!! I now have a serious network setup that is blazing fast and handing off beautifully... (funny thing it’s the exact same system -2). Bad WAP and NK-1. I got together with my dealer and his network guy today and they spent the better part of the day diagnosing and troubleshooting. Trouble was everything was reading well, so they were totally perplexed. Just to rule out every possibility, they started tearing it down bit by bit. Final thing was to isolated each WAP. Every time they added this particular one back to anywhere on the system it wreaked havoc. I think everyone knows I was on the verge. Not a bad cable, not a loop... bad WAP. Plays nice by itself, hates the others. It’s in a box and things are amazing. Crossing my fingers. Thanks everyone that tried to help... you guys are amazing. Thanks for sticking it out with me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk EverAction and dcovach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 Just a quick update...I am still getting some fairly rich consistent wireless readings throughout the space. The 5GHz seems to be working really well. The 2.4 is “okay”. I am running pretty clear channels, but it’s a little slow... but not unusable like before. It should however be faster. I do have the broadcast strengths set up backwards I suppose, with the 2.4 set a little higher on each WAP, I’ve read to do it both ways... (don’t know the exact broadcast strengths set without logging in, but all three WAPs are the same and the 2.4 is correctly set a little higher). I’m having issues with my TP-Link bulbs not responding well to C4. They are fine from the Kasa app and Alexa. Just takes four attempts to get them to turn off... they seem to toggle versus on or off. I’m hoping this isn’t network related, but I fear it is. These bulbs by design only work at the 2.4 band. Can someone shed some light on STP, Radius and all the little tweaking settings? Perhaps that’s a problem?Thanks! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Setup a separate SSID just for the bulbs. See how they behave. If they work fine on their own, then that can help point to something in your 2.4 network that’s interfering with them. Time2Jet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 Setup a separate SSID just for the bulbs. See how they behave. If they work fine on their own, then that can help point to something in your 2.4 network that’s interfering with them. Great Idea. Can I make it invisible after I’ve added the bulbs? Or do I have to keep it visible? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 Wait... I just started thinking. Wgat about separate VLans? Right now I have a single Vlan only. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 No Time2Jet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 NoNo to which, Mitch. Vlan or the Hidden SSID question? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 No separate vlan Time2Jet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Setup a separate SSID just for the bulbs. See how they behave. If they work fine on their own, then that can help point to something in your 2.4 network that’s interfering with them. I did create another SSID, but haven’t moved the Bulbs over yet. Mostly because I started thinking and further testing. I think I’ve actually isolated it to the bulbs’ response to the SR260’s. (Versus C4 App). I do have zigbee coverage issues and am adding some Keypads for hops. I have an extender that seemed to have solved the general remote issues, but the more I think about it, the TP bulbs, Sonos and Nest TStat and Doorbell are the only 2.4 “wireless” things the C4 system talks to. And frankly all of those are typically slow to respond and “iffy” when they do. The rest of the devices are either Zigbee, Ethernet directly or Ethernet to a bridge (Lutron, Hue) then out via proprietary (clear connect etc) protocols and they all work as they’re supposed to. I guess what I’m asking is could this resolve when I add those hops? Would a Zigbee channel change maybe be an idea? It seems like there needs to be two-way communication for all of this and Zigbee is involved both ways. Against this argument however is the fact that the Hello Doorbell sometimes sends alerts late and I don’t think Zigbee comes into play there at all... but those could be cloys delays not necessarily wireless network delays. Frustrating. I am probably the biggest advocate of a strong solid network in place before any automation can succeed. And here the shoemaker’s son goes barefoot. Ughhhh... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 I did move a single bulb over to the new SSID and it did not resolve it. If I’m not describing this well... when civrrlloing from the SR260 remotes, the bulbs “usually” toggle versus change state to off or on. If it’s on, it toggles off then right back on. It takes 2-4 tries... most of the time... before it holds the desired state. This leads me to think it’s the Zigbee signal. From the remote, it has to go out to the EA-5 via 1 hop (extender) and and then talk to the 2.4 network and then or simultaneously report the state back to the remotes via Zigbee. For control the driver communicates via UDP messaging protocol. Alan explained that to me... but I think he’s assuming a solid working Zigbee network. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 . but I think he’s assuming a solid working Zigbee network. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes. That is always the case. Need solid zigbee for remotes to work reliable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Stood right next to the EA-5. Same results. Zigbee signal strength is apparently not the issue. But considering it works perfectly from the C4 app, I’m thinking Zigbee interference. I’m at Zigbee Channel 25, any recommendations? Want to experiment with ruling that out before wanting to blame the general network again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcovach Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, time2jet said: Stood right next to the EA-5. Same results. Zigbee signal strength is apparently not the issue. But considering it works perfectly from the C4 app, I’m thinking Zigbee interference. I’m at Zigbee Channel 25, any recommendations? Want to experiment with ruling that out before wanting to blame the general network again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk In your scenario I couldn't tell you for sure the strongest zigbee channel that would work best without interfering with the Wi-Fi network. 25 is the weakest but least likely to interfere. I use this in almost all cases and it works well even when stretching the max recommended distances between zigbee devices. As long as they're placed strategically with no major barriers or interferences. Try leaving the network and id the remote again right beside the controller. I think the routing path will change and hopefully removes any hops for the test. You would obviously see a difference if you filled the gaps in the system with more zigbee devices that repeat. E.g. c4 lighting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 16 hours ago, dcovach said: In your scenario I couldn't tell you for sure the strongest zigbee channel that would work best without interfering with the Wi-Fi network. 25 is the weakest but least likely to interfere. I use this in almost all cases and it works well even when stretching the max recommended distances between zigbee devices. As long as they're placed strategically with no major barriers or interferences. Try leaving the network and id the remote again right beside the controller. I think the routing path will change and hopefully removes any hops for the test. You would obviously see a difference if you filled the gaps in the system with more zigbee devices that repeat. E.g. c4 lighting I'll try this when I get home tonight. Thanks Dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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