PSA: Apple TV tvOS 13 killed my remote programming

[EverAction]

2 hours ago, Amr said:

Did I stepped on some one toes? Anyways, for sure slicker interface, better navigation with apps, over all polished experience, etc.  Don’t you still have customers that prefers Apple to Roku? Am not talking about integration now.

Nope that’s a fair point!

[Cyknight]

5 hours ago, Amr said:

better navigation with apps

Do you mean to get to apps/add apps or are do you mean INSIDE the apps?

[Amr]

18 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Do you mean to get to apps/add apps or are do you mean INSIDE the apps?

No sir, I mean the entire navigation with the apps, folders, transitions, Menus, App look and feel the entire TvOS experience is much better and is so polished.  I do have Roku launching quick Apps like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime via MiniApps, my Kids love it but I still prefer to go to ATV and move from there.

[Cyknight]

44 minutes ago, Amr said:

No sir, I mean the entire navigation with the apps, folders, transitions, Menus, App look and feel the entire TvOS experience is much better and is so polished

Fair enough - so it's opinion.

Just to poke the bear a bit - ATV isn't a BMW, Roku vs ATV is more like ... Honda vs Toyota

I can't help but speculate if Apple was FORCED to offer the content elsewhere (ie ownership of bought content lawsuits)...or is planning to move out of hardware.

It feels too unlike apple to allow access to their stuff....but I'll keep myself under the illusion that this is in fact a sign that they've realized cooperation is the better way of doing until proven otherwise.

 

 

[Amr]

Yes, it’s the opinion of many Apple Fan boys like myself

[KWD]

I'm with AMR, the ATV seems much more polished, and has some advantages in a house with iPhones. Also has Atmos support for Netflix which for some reason Roku lacks. 

Definitely see the miniapp integration aspect from the side of an installer. Do it once and it's done. And works. Every time.

Here is hoping Apple will open things up a bit more but I'm guessing there isn't any real incentive since we are .000001% of their customers.  Sure would like Siri on a C4 remote. 

[therockhr]

2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Fair enough - so it's opinion.

Just to poke the bear a bit - ATV isn't a BMW, Roku vs ATV is more like ... Honda vs Toyota

I can't help but speculate if Apple was FORCED to offer the content elsewhere (ie ownership of bought content lawsuits)...or is planning to move out of hardware.

It feels too unlike apple to allow access to their stuff....but I'll keep myself under the illusion that this is in fact a sign that they've realized cooperation is the better way of doing until proven otherwise.

 

 

Apple is a hardware company (traditionally) so I don’t see that changing. This feels like when they made iTunes for windows. Trying to grow AppleTV +

[CTO]

For some reason my remote stopped working again, had to reset EA, matrix and everything finally came back on... man I hate resetting everything.. all zones without receivers blasts audio so I have to go to each zone that doesn’t have a receiver and turn on and off.. so annoying...

[Amr]

12 hours ago, CTO said:

For some reason my remote stopped working again, had to reset EA, matrix and everything finally came back on... man I hate resetting everything.. all zones without receivers blasts audio so I have to go to each zone that doesn’t have a receiver and turn on and off.. so annoying...

I suggest you dig deeper for a root cause to prevent it from happening again, headache but preventive maintenance is a must for a smooth life with home automation ...

[CTO13]

yeah I've gone over and over again with my dealer on this.. any zone using the triad amplifier has to be reset when I rest the Leaf 20x20 matrix..  I dread resetting it unless I'm home so I can load ea zone and hit off individually..  

[Amr]

1 hour ago, CTO13 said:

yeah I've gone over and over again with my dealer on this.. any zone using the triad amplifier has to be reset when I rest the Leaf 20x20 matrix..  I dread resetting it unless I'm home so I can load ea zone and hit off individually..  

Well this just unacceptable, will they ever fix this?

[CTO13]

they told me they can't...  something due to the Leaf..  I've slowly added Marantz to many zones so I only have a few zones on the Triad amp, but anything not on a Marantz has to be reset every time I reset the Matrix

 

[Cyknight]

? I don't see AT ALL why you'd have to reset a triad AMPLIFIER - are you talking about a matrix switch?

If so, the only thin I can think of is that the LEAF is setting it;s audio outputs to 0% volume....which can be taken care of programatically

[CTO]

I don’t have to reset the amplifier. Just when I reset the leaf 20x20 matrix all zones tied to the triad AMPLIFI plays sound.  Loud too.  So then I have to go to each zone hit listen select a device then hit volume then it goes down the turn off and it’s all good until next time I reset the matrix.  If I reset ea5 it seems like I always have to reset the leaf matrix otherwise stuff doesn’t work.  Luckily I don’t have to reset ea5 that often but when I do it’s always a pain 

[Psykopup]

It seems I'm late to this party. My C4 remote took it's time to stop working with my Apple TV. A couple weeks ago, I could reboot, by unplugging/plugging, my ATV so the C4 remote could control it again. For the past 4-5 days, rebooting no longer works. Now my C4 remote won't control ATV at all. (All other functionality on my remote works fine.) Obviously, this isn't the first time an update has broken my system. What really sucks now, I'm past my 1-year mark when my dealer will start charging $100/per visit. So, $100 to fix my system every time there is an update???

So, I'm here asking for advise on whether this is something I can fix myself now... and every future upgrade. I have an EA controller and an ATV 4k. I do not have access to C4 composer. According to my iOS app, the director version is 2.10.6. When I try to connect to my system in the C4 app, it says...  it's unable to connect because I need a 4Sight subscription... and to call my dealer.  I imagine it's because the connection between C4 and ATV is broken. The last time an update broke the connection, my dealer tried using an IR blaster. This is NOT an option I'd like to revert to again because I did not have all the navigation functionality that it did with IP.

Any expert advise on if I can fix this myself and, if so, how?  Thank you.

[Cyknight]

21 hours ago, therockhr said:

Apple is a hardware company (traditionally) so I don’t see that changing.

True, but they've also dropped numerous devices over the years when faced with too much competition (all of their networking for one)

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, CTO said:

 Loud too.  So then I have to go to each zone hit listen select a device then hit volume then it goes down the turn off and it’s all good until next time I reset the matrix.

AH! Well that's poor setup, so you have the LEAF directly connected to the Triad Amp. Not ideal, in no small part for that reason - it doesn't do audio enpoint, which is the root cause of the issue.

[CTO]

How should it be hooked up.  It’s annoying.  And before triad amp I had c4 amp but it kept hissing in some zones so dealer changed to triad. No hissing but the audio blasts after any reset of the leaf.   

[Cyknight]

There should be a normal audio matrix in between

[CTO]

Oh ok 

[EverAction]

On 10/18/2019 at 5:14 PM, Psykopup said:

The last time an update broke the connection, my dealer tried using an IR blaster. This is NOT an option I'd like to revert to again because I did not have all the navigation functionality that it did with IP.

You can totally expect this to keep happening again at $100 a pop since no one can predict what Apple decides to break every time they release an update (which has been happening since the creation of the AppleTV).

It doesn't matter how late to the party you arrive, you could have read everything to catch up. Use the IR driver, that's the recommendation.

[Psykopup]

In case this helps others... here's my experience with all this. I worked with @msgreenf for a few days on this issue. (Super helpful guy by the way.) He informed me that my local dealer left my system in a bit of a mess. Nothing was updated as they did not turn on automatic updates in C4. After cleaning this up for me and getting everything updated, my C4 was still not controlling my ATV. He tried everything he could, I installed and restarted everything I could. Nothing was fixing this issue.

He called Control4 Monday morning and tried to find a solution from them. They basically told him that the IP driver was problematic and they were aware of the issue. He was told to just use IR for now. I sent a very frustrated email to Control4 because this has been the 4th or 5th time I've had an issue with C4 and my ATV, since having it for only 1 year. I received a call from a Control4 rep this morning. After going back and forth with him, and being put on hold so he could talk to his boss, he finally informed me that there was an issue with the IP driver update because Apple released a limited number of API keys for the tvOS 13 update. Apparently, Apple finally released more API keys and now the updated IP driver should work.

I asked the C4 rep how to avoid these constant issues moving forward. He said that IP is a newer, more robust technology, but that IR should be the more stable solution for future updates. As long as it's serving all our needs, and as along as the IR eye doesn't move out of place, IR is the way to go.

[EverAction]

4 minutes ago, Psykopup said:

In case this helps others... here's my experience with all this. I worked with @msgreenf for a few days on this issue. (Super helpful guy by the way.) He informed me that my local dealer left my system in a bit of a mess. Nothing was updated as they did not turn on automatic updates in C4. After cleaning this up for me and getting everything updated, my C4 was still not controlling my ATV. He tried everything he could, I installed and restarted everything I could. Nothing was fixing this issue.

He called Control4 Monday morning and tried to find a solution from them. They basically told him that the IP driver was problematic and they were aware of the issue. He was told to just use IR for now. I sent a very frustrated email to Control4 because this has been the 4th or 5th time I've had an issue with C4 and my ATV, since having it for only 1 year. I received a call from a Control4 rep this morning. After going back and forth with him, and being put on hold so he could talk to his boss, he finally informed me that there was an issue with the IP driver update because Apple released a limited number of API keys for the tvOS 13 update. Apparently, Apple finally released more API keys and now the updated IP driver should work.

I asked the C4 rep how to avoid these constant issues moving forward. He said that IP is a newer, more robust technology, but that IR should be the more stable solution for future updates. As long as it's serving all our needs, and as along as the IR eye doesn't move out of place, IR is the way to go.

Yeah it sucks. IP is definitely more responsive than IR, but Apple is the ones to blame for this fiasco. C4 knew this would be an issue in the future with Apple and their walled garden, and they're still catching heat because of it.

[CTO13]

yeah, I took my Apple TV's off auto update so hopefully this won't happen.  I don't see any advantage of updating c4 since my system works and there's really nothing new that this new OS gave me other than headaches..  Luckily I haven't updated my other locations and its worked for atleast 2 years without updates and problems.  So if I keep it like this it should just work.. LOL..  Fingers crossed

[Psykopup]

Just now, EverAction said:

Yeah it sucks. IP is definitely more responsive than IR, but Apple is the ones to blame for this fiasco. C4 knew this would be an issue in the future with Apple and their walled garden, and they're still catching heat because of it.

Honestly, I'm upset with my local "Smart Home Pro" company that installed my system. I did NOT want an Apple TV. I'm an Android user and I think Apple should have stuck with just making Macs... which I love. I asked my local installer about getting a Roku, Chromecast or Amazon Fire instead. He insisted that Apple TV was the way to go. It has been nothing but problems. Every time I had an issue, I had to contact them. The support was free for 1 year, but now it costs $100 per incident. Then, I learned that they did not turn on automatic updates in my C4 system. It seems to me that they either aren't fully educated on this technology, or they are trying make money where they can.