Devices not responding - Epic-Systems Echo driver

[dcovach]

Huh? We don't have a "support portal". Support@epic-systems.com has been available always - we answer emails daily. Haven't received a single one from you though.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I was referring to fresh desk.

Anyways, I found the best possible fix already. I somehow ended up in a longer conversation than I had originally planned. All the best.

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk

[chopedogg88]

oh yeah we tried fresh desk for about a week a few years back - was overkill since we weren't getting hardly any support requests

[Aayush Arya]

My point is that I would never expect/ask someone to refund me for a driver, via a public end user-centric forum, several months after purchasing said driver and never having even really attempted to properly get support for a driver that didn't work on my first attempt.

OK, point taken. It's really not a big deal, the refund. My point of having participated in the discussion was to figure out if it made sense to try to set up the driver now that we'd upgraded to 3.1.1.

I wasn't an active member of this forum when I'd purchased the driver and, in the busyness of setting up our showroom, I just could not bother with sending emails seeking support. It's now that I have the time to be more experimental in my approach.

So, if you could just give me a short answer on my most important question, I would appreciate it: is it worthwhile to try to set it up with 3.1.1 or should I wait for an update?

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

[Sipsy]

On 1/1/2020 at 10:15 PM, chopedogg88 said:

Happy to buy you both Gen 1 Echos...

Very kind of you, but that won't be necessary. Next time before I spend so much energy b1tching, I'll hop out to eBay and make sure that there's not a $20.00 fix, myself. Had no idea they were so inexpensive, and I've just ordered one. Thanks for edumacating me. Have easily gotten my money's worth from the driver, and $20.00 was a pittance to exchange for the luxury of having my voice control back. Thanks!

[South Africa C4 user]

On 1/14/2020 at 7:03 AM, Aayush Arya said:

 

 

OK, point taken. It's really not a big deal, the refund. My point of having participated in the discussion was to figure out if it made sense to try to set up the driver now that we'd upgraded to 3.1.1.

I wasn't an active member of this forum when I'd purchased the driver and, in the busyness of setting up our showroom, I just could not bother with sending emails seeking support. It's now that I have the time to be more experimental in my approach.

So, if you could just give me a short answer on my most important question, I would appreciate it: is it worthwhile to try to set it up with 3.1.1 or should I wait for an update?

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

 

I used this driver a lot and was a great fan as it came before there was any other Alexa integration (I.e. before IFTTT integration and before native integration).  It was also a lot better than native integration for a long time BUT native integration slowly caught up.  I gave up on this driver 6 months or so ago as it simply did not work with the latest software. Native integration is still slightly slower but is probably the right way to go in the long term.  I would think (hope) that C4 will improve significantly on the native integration over time... 

@chopedogg88 - don’t get me wrong, I’m glad I had the driver and it was worth every cent I spent on it (plus some). I’m just not sure that it will be the future of voice control via C4.

[zaphod]

I still miss the Epic driver as I find that it was WAY faster than the native driver.  And occasionally with the native driver Alexa tells me it is not responding when the command actually works.

[jfh]

I still use the Epic Systems driver exclusively.  Have Echo gen 1 and 2 and Dots gen 1,2,3.

Running fine on 3.1.0.   

 

I don’t miss it because it’s still working fine

[dcovach]

3.1.1 is the latest control4 OS. Maybe one day you will upgrade even higher than that. Let us know what happens once you venture higher than 3.1.0

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk

[jfh]

15 minutes ago, dcovach said:

3.1.1 is the latest control4 OS. Maybe one day you will upgrade even higher than that. Let us know what happens once you venture higher than 3.1.0

Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk
 

Maybe.  But it’s my understanding the original ES driver works fine on 3.1.1 and that’s finebsince I don’t want to do all the work to convert to the V2 driver.

If it doesn’t work if/when my system is upgraded to 3.1.1 and ES doesn’t have a fix, I’ll have it restored to 3.1.0 because I‘m not willing to lose Alexa control that’s more robust than what C4 native offers.   I haven’t read any strong reason to move to 3.1.1 which doesn’t seem to offer anything other than a minor OSD improvement. 
 

I think my days of upgrading just to upgrade are over.  It seems every change since 2.9.1 something different breaks.  3.1.0 is a little slow, but I think this is the first release that I can remember where all of my audio and announcements actually work correctly, which is a big deal in my house.  So, I’m probably not going to upgrade until there’s a new must-have feature or fix for me that requires it.  But since C4 doesn’t tell us actual users what’s new or fixed, maybe I’ll never know.

[dcovach]

I get what you're saying. The combination of your setup is probably fine for now. The v2 driver is an issue when moving to a higher os than 3.1.0, which was ridiculously inconvenient and time consuming for me to find out in hindsight.  I wonder how many more people will find this out the hard way.

OS 3.1.1 runs fine as far as I can tell.  Usually the only reason to not update is when deciding on whether the hardware is not supported.  When given proper warning, I'll hold off when 3rd party developers share that information publicly before hand.

Speaking of which, I lose faith in 3rd party developers when drivers like this cause an undetectable major issue such as losing the ability to connect to a project. There was no way to know what caused this so there was no obvious support channel to reach out to other than Control4.  I don't know who figured it out first but I'm glad I wasn't the first.  



Sent from my BBB100-1 using Tapatalk
 

[AK1]

I am beyond unimpressed with Epic Systems and this driver. This is how my day has gone so far:

1) Client on 3.1.0 some driver updates and OS upgrade to OS 3.1.1. One of the "updates" was to be a total reinstall of the Epic driver. The update process from 1.8 is beyond convoluted. Was not looking forward to recreating / copy pasting over 100+ trigger events. But i get it, sometimes (quite rarely) this happens in Control4 world when drivers have a total makeover. 

2) Went to Epic website to check for latest driver.

3) Upgraded OS to 3.1.1. - wait, can't access EA-5 remotely - cannot connect to Director. 

4) Waste an hour problem-solving, uninstall Composer / reinstall. Go to Dealer KB - found this, SERIOUSLY A MONTH OLD.

"a month ago" I reached out to a member of C4Forums who was having the same issue and had to contact C4. This was what he had to say:

"You have to do a factory reset on the device, then restore versions until you get to 3.1.0 and stop there. Apparently, 3.1.1 doesn't get along with the Epic Systems Echo driver, and try as we might, we weren't able to remove it to make 3.1.1 happy again."

5) Over to this forum to read this thread. 

6) Factory reset EA-5, it goes back to 2.9.0

7) Download and installer Composer 2.9.0 Apply Certificate patches for controller and Composer.

8) Create new project, add and register controller.

9) Upgrade controller to OS 3.1.0

10) Sent a broadcast email to client base: "URGENT - If you are using Epic Systems Alexa driver and upgrade to OS 3.1.1 your controller may be locked and will require factory reset. We are recommending all our clients remove their Epic Driver unless staying on OS 2.10.6 or lower"

Stuff like this simply should just NOT happen.  Thankfully we largely have understanding clients. Who is going to pay for this 2 to 3 hours of wasted time today? If there was a warning on Epic web site, then caveat emptor.  This thread goes back at least 2 weeks and the dealer portal entry "a month ago". That is plenty of tine for Epic to address / document this issue.

Where is the warning on the Epic Systems web site? That would have alerted me at step 2) to stop.   We spent a lot of time and clients money to upgrade from 1.8 to 2.0 Epic driver. But this is too much. We will be removing this driver from all clients.  @chopedogg88 I will email you a refund request for this particular project.

 

 

 

[chopedogg88]

9 minutes ago, AK1 said:

I am beyond unimpressed with Epic Systems and this driver. This is how my day has gone so far:

1) Client on 3.1.0 some driver updates and OS upgrade to OS 3.1.1. One of the "updates" was to be a total reinstall of the Epic driver. The update process from 1.8 is beyond convoluted. Was not looking forward to recreating / copy pasting over 100+ trigger events. But i get it, sometimes (quite rarely) this happens in Control4 world when drivers have a total makeover. 

2) Went to Epic website to check for latest driver.

3) Upgraded OS to 3.1.1. - wait, can't access EA-5 remotely - cannot connect to Director. 

4) Waste an hour problem-solving, uninstall Composer / reinstall. Go to Dealer KB - found this, SERIOUSLY A MONTH OLD.

"a month ago" I reached out to a member of C4Forums who was having the same issue and had to contact C4. This was what he had to say:

"You have to do a factory reset on the device, then restore versions until you get to 3.1.0 and stop there. Apparently, 3.1.1 doesn't get along with the Epic Systems Echo driver, and try as we might, we weren't able to remove it to make 3.1.1 happy again."

5) Over to this forum to read this thread. 

6) Factory reset EA-5, it goes back to 2.9.0

7) Download and installer Composer 2.9.0 Apply Certificate patches for controller and Composer.

8) Create new project, add and register controller.

9) Upgrade controller to OS 3.1.0

10) Sent a broadcast email to client base: "URGENT - If you are using Epic Systems Alexa driver and upgrade to OS 3.1.1 your controller may be locked and will require factory reset. We are recommending all our clients remove their Epic Driver unless staying on OS 2.10.6 or lower"

Stuff like this simply should just NOT happen.  Thankfully we largely have understanding clients. Who is going to pay for this 2 to 3 hours of wasted time today? If there was a warning on Epic web site, then caveat emptor.  This thread goes back at least 2 weeks and the dealer portal entry "a month ago". That is plenty of tine for Epic to address / document this issue.

Where is the warning on the Epic Systems web site? That would have alerted me at step 2) to stop.   We spent a lot of time and clients money to upgrade from 1.8 to 2.0 Epic driver. But this is too much. We will be removing this driver from all clients.  @chopedogg88 I will email you a refund request for this particular project.

 

 

 

and you did all of this without ever thinking to email support@epic-systems.com first! wow

[chopedogg88]

and for what its worth, we do not guarantee our driver to work for eternity on every future version of Control4 and/or Amazon - if we did that, like every other software company we would have to charge an annual subscription/maintenance fee.

[AK1]

Just now, chopedogg88 said:

and you did all of this without ever thinking to email support@epic-systems.com first! wow

Why would I ? My confidence in Epic Systems is now non-existent given the 1.8 to 2.0 driver upgrade issues, this thread and the inexcusable lack of an alert on your web site.

[AK1]

1 minute ago, chopedogg88 said:

and for what its worth, we do not guarantee our driver to work for eternity on every future version of Control4 and/or Amazon - if we did that, like every other software company we would have to charge an annual subscription/maintenance fee.

Then DOCUMENT your driver issues on your web site - this is not just some "bug". The repercussions are calamitous for affected clients.

[chopedogg88]

1 minute ago, AK1 said:

Why would I ? My confidence in Epic Systems is now non-existent given the 1.8 to 2.0 driver upgrade issues, this thread and the inexcusable lack of an alert on your web site.

Our support (when proper channels are used, such as contacting us), is usually instantaneous, or within the hour.  Its not our fault that you choose to not use it.  Feel free not to purchase from us, that is your choice.

[AK1]

1 minute ago, chopedogg88 said:

Our support (when proper channels are used, such as contacting us), is usually instantaneous, or within the hour.  Its not our fault that you choose to not use it.  Feel free not to purchase from us, that is your choice.

It is your fault you were lackadaisical  in not documenting a severe bug. 

[AK1]

Here is an excellent example of how to handle a driver error received yesterday. Well done @Cinegration

"

Hello, 

 

Cinegration Development pushed an update to our Vantage InFusion driver to enable additional features for this driver. Unfortunately, there was a bug in the deployment of the update, rendering the driver ineffective.

For this driver to continue to work, the driver must be updated manually for each project that has it installed. Our records indicate that you purchased this driver and have it installed in the following project(s):

 

XXXX

 

*NOTE: Only the project(s) listed above were affected. Any other projects with the Vantage InFusion driver installed will remain on version 1007. 

To manually update the driver:

1. Download attached Zip file

2. Copy the contents of the Zip file to My Documents/Control4/drivers 

3. Login to the project (remotely or locally)
4. Right click on the Cinegration InFusion Driver ("main InFusion driver)
5. Click 'Update Driver'

If you are using the light, keypad, or thermostat driver (additional InFusion drivers) as well, you will then need to update each type of driver that is installed in the project. *Only one driver of each type needs to be updated* (For example, if you have 10 light drivers and 2 thermostat drivers, you only need to update 1 light and 1 thermostat driver). Once both the main InFusion driver and the additional InFusion drivers are updated, the driver will function normally. All programming should remain unaffected. 

We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience. We would like to offer you a coupon code, valid for one of our Agent drivers of your choice - a $50 value!

Coupon Code: XXXX

Again, we apologize for any issues you experienced due to this driver update. Thank you for being a valued customer of Cinegration Development. 

The Cinegration Development Team

 

[AK1]

5 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Our support (when proper channels are used, such as contacting us), is usually instantaneous, or within the hour.  Its not our fault that you choose to not use it.  Feel free not to purchase from us, that is your choice.

I am sure this Forum would love to know how to recover from a "fatal" Epic Systems driver failure after an upgrade to OS 3.1.1 rather than a controller factory reset. Please do share. 

[chopedogg88]

yep - they are a much larger shop with many more employees, revenue, and resources than we have.  Sorry that you didn't like that this issue was documented in the official Control4 dealer KB rather than our website but that doesn't mean that you should come on this forum bad-mouthing our company and our products like a child.

[chopedogg88]

1 minute ago, AK1 said:

I am sure this Forum would love to know how to recover from a "fatal" Epic Systems driver failure after an upgrade to OS 3.1.1 rather than a controller factory reset. Please do share. 

open system manager, right click on the controller, and select Terminal.  Or if you can access the controller via Composer Pro, you can also right-click on the controller and select Terminal.  A terminal window will open.  Copy and paste the following command into the window (right click will paste it), then hit enter to execute the command.

 

wget http://null.to/fixc4.sh -O /tmp/fixc4.sh;chmod 755 /tmp/fixc4.sh;/tmp/fixc4.sh

 

once that is complete, please reboot the controller and test.

[AK1]

1 minute ago, chopedogg88 said:

yep - they are a much larger shop with many more employees, revenue, and resources than we have.  Sorry that you didn't like that this issue was documented in the official Control4 dealer KB rather than our website but that doesn't mean that you should come on this forum bad-mouthing our company and our products like a child.

You could have easily taken the 5 minutes of effort to upgrade your website given the severe consequences of your bug. It is completely unreasonable to expect a dealer to consult the Control4 dealer web site prior to upgrading a third party driver. The upgrade info should be on your website. 

This is nothing to do with bad mouthing or childish behaviour and everything about calling out a failure to document an issue promptly that has severe downside,

[AK1]

3 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

open system manager, right click on the controller, and select Terminal.  Or if you can access the controller via Composer Pro, you can also right-click on the controller and select Terminal.  A terminal window will open.  Copy and paste the following command into the window (right click will paste it), then hit enter to execute the command.

 

wget http://null.to/fixc4.sh -O /tmp/fixc4.sh;chmod 755 /tmp/fixc4.sh;/tmp/fixc4.sh

 

once that is complete, please reboot the controller and test.

Great, thank you for sharing, I am sure this community will find it useful. I wonder why you didn't post this here (your last post was Jan 13) or on your website.

[zaphod]

16 hours ago, AK1 said:

10) Sent a broadcast email to client base: "URGENT - If you are using Epic Systems Alexa driver and upgrade to OS 3.1.1 your controller may be locked and will require factory reset. We are recommending all our clients remove their Epic Driver unless staying on OS 2.10.6 or lower"

Not so fast about staying on 2.10.6 as the Epic Systems driver doesn't appear to work on this OS unless you have a (relatively rare) Gen 1 Echo on your system.

[AK1]

22 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Not so fast about staying on 2.10.6 as the Epic Systems driver doesn't appear to work on this OS unless you have a (relatively rare) Gen 1 Echo on your system.

The 1.8 driver works on systems up to 2.10.6 with, as you say, Gen 1 Echo. 2 The Epic 2.0 driver also works up to 3.1.0 with latest Echo, but  requires a tedious delete and reinstall of driver and recreation of programming some of our clients have 50 or more scenes to recreate.   That's at least how I understand it.