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c4Iona

AppleTV -- A giant mess! (opinion post)

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Popular or unpopular as my statement may be, 13.x and Control4 is a mess.  

The new driver does not work consistently.  Beta or gold version, it does not matter.  It should not matter. 

I was happy with the old IP driver.  It worked just fine.  Now the newest driver works with the c4 ios app as a remote but I cannot get the actual C4 remote to work.  I have several instances of control 4.  Some on 3 and some on 2.10.  I had to revert to the IR driver on 2.10 to be able to use a 13.x AppleTV as the newest driver does not run on HC gear and requires EA gear and the old IP driver does not work with IOS 13.x.  

I have the newest driver in 3.1x and the bridge has screwed up the Home app on my iPhone.  All I can now see id apple items and control4 items.  I no longer see any of my Hue lights or smart plugs.  

Sorry, but It's just a mess.  I hope C4 and Apple recognize what a mess this is and is working to put out a better integration in the future.

 

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I have IR drivers out in 2.10.x and 3.x and they work great. Unfortunately a lot of the unofficial IP drivers are out there. I stopped using it a few years ago when I heard it was unofficial after the sonos nuke happened

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OG AppleTV driver was made by EV, as were Sonos drivers. Good for EV making some $$$$ but bad for everyone else. See Sonic post above. IR is easy. It’s 6 buttons, and I like my roku better

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50 minutes ago, knowitall said:

 I like my roku better

So much better...

FYI the old IP driver was updated to allow IR control, within a week of release, to allow a relatively easy move.

It's a mess true, but look to the right agent that instigated the changes required.

 

AFAIK the IP driver wasn't EV though, that was the iTunes driver (that also allowed IP control over ATV) - it was never marketed as a driver for ATV I believe.

53 minutes ago, knowitall said:

IR is easy. It’s 6 buttons,

Actually, ATV remote is 6-buttons, the IR drivers actually have more control options that the original remote

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4 hours ago, c4Iona said:

I have the newest driver in 3.1x and the bridge has screwed up the Home app on my iPhone.  All I can now see id apple items and control4 items.  I no longer see any of my Hue lights or smart plugs.

I sincerely doubt you losing HUE etc has anything to do with the bridge driver. The structure shouldn't even ALLOW the driver to influence your Home app directly to begin with.

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Agree, Roku is the way to go...but tell that to people who are Apple households.  And I do wish that Roku would spend a little time & money and sexy things up a bit.  Apple TV definitely has the edge there, in my opinion.

IR is great, if you can get an IR to the Apple box easily...seems too often I don't have that option and IP saves the day.  Today was a perfect example...2 cat6 were run to the TV (by someone else), one needed for network, the other for video distribution.  too costly to throw an EA1 there just for IR...even a Z2IO is pricey for that...and requires another power outlet behind the TV.

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as a really involved end user, I would have to agree, but I am going to place the blame on C4 rather than apple.  apple updates, innovates.. all the time. sometimes these standards change in the interest of privacy.. that is a good thing.

However, as a manufacturer of control solutions, C4 as a business should realize that there is a HUGE installed base of apple TV, and with the intro of apple TV plus and the integration of streaming services with apple, this number will only grow. just as they have put the effort in to integrate Alexa and amazon, they should be putting equal effort in to bring apple tv users on board.

When I had my C4 system installed, I had multiple boxes to provide content: apple tv, roku (used mainly for amazon), Dune box, for stuff that I had stored on a local server, Grace Player for Pandora and Sirius, and finally a mac mini used for itunes streaming.

now I am in the process of consolidating. I have gotten rid of the Dune because infuse provided the same functionality on the apple TV (dont see a roku version).. grace is gone cause C4 now streams pandora.. Roku is mostly gone, because appletv now has a amazon app. also, with roku, the box needs frequent restarts because the newer versions of the box are not fully compatible with my SNAP matrix.

Apple is not a closed wall, not for many years, developers can write apps for these boxes and for phones, and they can be controlled with gaming remote that duplicate the function of the apple remote.  I cannot believe that my 40 dollar aftermarket steel gaming remote controls my apple TV, where my 40k worth of control4 gear cannot, without resorting to IR, which is slow, or upgrading to a new controller, which does not seem that different from the old one.  

Ideally they would put in the resources to either 1) allow native control of apple TV AND stream itunes or 2) make the whole system fully integrate with homekit. And BTW to veriatas for their awesome homekit solution.

I am in process of obtaining an ea5 for testing to see how this will work with the new driver, as I find the new IR really unusable on my system.  It does not seem to have the shortcuts that the old IP driver did (home.. please home),and there is always a delay, small, but noticeable enough to be annoying.  and yes, I now have a HC box devoted entirely to providing IR connections to the flashers for my 2 apple TV boxes.

Hopefully this will get sorted soon.. apple tv is becoming more valuable to me than ever before, and as my household slowly cuts the directv cord, streaming replacement content ON APPLE TV will become more and more important.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Cyknight said:

 

AFAIK the IP driver wasn't EV though

In the documentation for the first gen ATV IP driver, if you look at the screen shots where you pair the driver to the remote, the Apple TV in the pic is linked to Simon’s ipad. It’s possible the driver came out after C4 acquired EV, but Simon is the EV dude. 

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2 hours ago, shawkyns said:

as a really involved end user, I would have to agree, but I am going to place the blame on C4 rather than apple.  apple updates, innovates.. all the time. sometimes these standards change in the interest of privacy.. that is a good thing.

However, as a manufacturer of control solutions, C4 as a business should realize that there is a HUGE installed base of apple TV, and with the intro of apple TV plus and the integration of streaming services with apple, this number will only grow. just as they have put the effort in to integrate Alexa and amazon, they should be putting equal effort in to bring apple tv users on board.

When I had my C4 system installed, I had multiple boxes to provide content: apple tv, roku (used mainly for amazon), Dune box, for stuff that I had stored on a local server, Grace Player for Pandora and Sirius, and finally a mac mini used for itunes streaming.

now I am in the process of consolidating. I have gotten rid of the Dune because infuse provided the same functionality on the apple TV (dont see a roku version).. grace is gone cause C4 now streams pandora.. Roku is mostly gone, because appletv now has a amazon app. also, with roku, the box needs frequent restarts because the newer versions of the box are not fully compatible with my SNAP matrix.

Apple is not a closed wall, not for many years, developers can write apps for these boxes and for phones, and they can be controlled with gaming remote that duplicate the function of the apple remote.  I cannot believe that my 40 dollar aftermarket steel gaming remote controls my apple TV, where my 40k worth of control4 gear cannot, without resorting to IR, which is slow, or upgrading to a new controller, which does not seem that different from the old one.  

Ideally they would put in the resources to either 1) allow native control of apple TV AND stream itunes or 2) make the whole system fully integrate with homekit. And BTW to veriatas for their awesome homekit solution.

I am in process of obtaining an ea5 for testing to see how this will work with the new driver, as I find the new IR really unusable on my system.  It does not seem to have the shortcuts that the old IP driver did (home.. please home),and there is always a delay, small, but noticeable enough to be annoying.  and yes, I now have a HC box devoted entirely to providing IR connections to the flashers for my 2 apple TV boxes.

Hopefully this will get sorted soon.. apple tv is becoming more valuable to me than ever before, and as my household slowly cuts the directv cord, streaming replacement content ON APPLE TV will become more and more important.

 

 

 

 

Amazon is way more open with their api.  Compare what works with Alexa vs what works with HomeKit or Siri.  C4 is far from perfect and I’m an Apple user but I’ll blame Apple here 

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2 hours ago, msgreenf said:

You give apple way too much credit. They are the ones that break things and own the API. Control4 can only leverage apis that apple makes available. You can blame control4 but that doesn't mean you are right.

Sometimes the API is only as good as the feedback through the development cycle. It's hard to place blame...a lot of times the problem is simply a developer calling the API in an unexpected way causing random problems. Somethings it's the API.   Hard to say who's at fault not being part of the development team.

That said, I run 4 appleTVs at home, have the latest IP drivers and haven't had any problems with the latest apple SW releases. (fingers crossed I didn't curse myself). It have had a few remove disconnect then connect notices on screen.  HomeKit has been slowly developing, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the behind the scene development cycles caused problems.

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4 hours ago, shawkyns said:

, C4 as a business should realize that there is a HUGE installed base of apple TV, and with the intro of apple TV plus and the integration of streaming services with apple, this number will only grow. just as they have put the effort in to integrate Alexa and amazon, they should be putting equal effort in to bring apple tv users on board.

As long as APPLE is the one controlling the API limits, and restricts the how and what of integration, you're simply dead wrong.

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5 hours ago, shawkyns said:

as a really involved end user, I would have to agree, but I am going to place the blame on C4 rather than apple.  apple updates, innovates.. all the time. sometimes these standards change in the interest of privacy.. that is a good thing.

However, as a manufacturer of control solutions, C4 as a business should realize that there is a HUGE installed base of apple TV, and with the intro of apple TV plus and the integration of streaming services with apple, this number will only grow. just as they have put the effort in to integrate Alexa and amazon, they should be putting equal effort in to bring apple tv users on board.

When I had my C4 system installed, I had multiple boxes to provide content: apple tv, roku (used mainly for amazon), Dune box, for stuff that I had stored on a local server, Grace Player for Pandora and Sirius, and finally a mac mini used for itunes streaming.

now I am in the process of consolidating. I have gotten rid of the Dune because infuse provided the same functionality on the apple TV (dont see a roku version).. grace is gone cause C4 now streams pandora.. Roku is mostly gone, because appletv now has a amazon app. also, with roku, the box needs frequent restarts because the newer versions of the box are not fully compatible with my SNAP matrix.

Apple is not a closed wall, not for many years, developers can write apps for these boxes and for phones, and they can be controlled with gaming remote that duplicate the function of the apple remote.  I cannot believe that my 40 dollar aftermarket steel gaming remote controls my apple TV, where my 40k worth of control4 gear cannot, without resorting to IR, which is slow, or upgrading to a new controller, which does not seem that different from the old one.  

Ideally they would put in the resources to either 1) allow native control of apple TV AND stream itunes or 2) make the whole system fully integrate with homekit. And BTW to veriatas for their awesome homekit solution.

I am in process of obtaining an ea5 for testing to see how this will work with the new driver, as I find the new IR really unusable on my system.  It does not seem to have the shortcuts that the old IP driver did (home.. please home),and there is always a delay, small, but noticeable enough to be annoying.  and yes, I now have a HC box devoted entirely to providing IR connections to the flashers for my 2 apple TV boxes.

Hopefully this will get sorted soon.. apple tv is becoming more valuable to me than ever before, and as my household slowly cuts the directv cord, streaming replacement content ON APPLE TV will become more and more important.

 

 

 

 

This is a very misguided, and uninformed take.

"Apple is not a closed wall"

Stopped reading there. I'm an Apple fanboy as well, but here's the reality of the situation. It's Apple's hardware, it's Apple's API. At any point they could have branched it off and allowed method of control both ways (legacy IP and new IP), thus not breaking integration for thousands of users. They chose the nuclear option as they often do. They are in fact a closed wall. That is their biggest selling point because a closed wall equals better security (in most cases). That's what you are buying in to. That's why it just works. They care about their ecosystem over anything the third party may have been doing up to that point.

Just because they let developers in the door, they DO NOT give them the keys. Ask any developer who codes for Android or iOS. There is a HUGE difference.

But keep blaming the 40k worth of Control4 equipment that's still working.. Well except for the control of the AppleTV due to an update pushed by Apple. That was warned by Control4 many times throughout the year that it will break because Apple can't get their act together for CI (which also includes Crestron and Savant)

I get it, you're upset. But your anger is misguided and uninformed.

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4 hours ago, knowitall said:

In the documentation for the first gen ATV IP driver, if you look at the screen shots where you pair the driver to the remote, the Apple TV in the pic is linked to Simon’s ipad. It’s possible the driver came out after C4 acquired EV, but Simon is the EV dude. 

The current version of IP control for 4th gen AppleTV's would be the third type of IP control integrators have had to deal with across AppleTV's life span since it's inception:

1. The unsupported EV driver (eventually killed by an AppleTV software update on all hardware)

2. The semi-supported Apple Remote driver created by C4 (eventually killed by a combination of the hardware version of Apple TV and software update)

3. The supported Apple bridge driver -- the current driver only supported by the latest and greatest hardware, which will probably be replaced again with a newer version (software or hardware) that will render all previous ones incompatible to necessitate another IP driver.

Just stick with IR for these things.

 

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7 hours ago, EverAction said:

That is their biggest selling point because a closed wall equals better security (in most cases)

And quality control.

IT's a choice they have made time and time again, for better or for worse.

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7 hours ago, EverAction said:

the Apple TV in the pic is linked to Simon’s ipad. It’s possible the driver came out after C4 acquired EV, but Simon is the EV dude. 

And subsequently acquired by Control4, making numerous drivers and some other software stuff, but that doesn't mean it was made by EV let alone sold.

It's a bit of a moot point regardless.

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On 10/8/2019 at 6:25 PM, c4Iona said:

 Now the newest driver works with the c4 ios app as a remote but I cannot get the actual C4 remote to work. 

 

 

Only issue I have is the SR260 stopped working with ATV while the iOS app still works fine. Weird. 

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35 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

What driver, what tv is, control4 os and control4 hardware and tv hardware

EA-5 with 3.1. Gen 4 ATV on tvOS 13 with the Gen 4 driver version 26. 

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