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eggzlot

Latest and Greatest on Water Flow/monitoring

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I currently have water sensors tied into my DSC Alarm and I have a Water Cop (water main on/off actuator) tied into my controller with relays.  Should water get detected, my water cop turns off the water.  Easy.

I purchased https://www.streamlabswater.com/ because it was cheap and easy to install, but it also had a less sensitive monitor for diagnosing potential leaks.  Of course I had a water filter system with a slow leak (into a waste line into our sump pump) so no damage except our water bill did double in a month.  We resolved the issue, but I am looking for something that is more sensitive in monitoring flow/leaks.  To get that, I believe the pipe would have to be cut open and something installed in line.  The original streamlabs device that I have, that sits on the pipe, can measure a leak down to 0.25 gpm.  They have a newer device that is also an auto turn off and leak detector in one, and that gets down to 0.1 gpm.  They have an API, but no one has a driver for Control4 as far as I know.

What is the latest and greatest that also works with C4?  I saw @Cinegration has something for Flo by Moen but the API changed and they should have a release Q1 2020.  Anyone else know of any devices?  Flume says they can detect down to 0.01 - 0.07 gpm depending on the size of the pipe.  I also see there is a product called Phyn.

I'd prefer to say as non cloud based as possible just for quicker interaction if there is an issue, but I am open to ideas and suggestions.  I need a plumber to come out for a few odds and ends, so if I can procure the hardware in time maybe I'll make an upgrade.

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We're almost complete with the new version of the flo driver and should have it out in the next two weeks.  The flo is nice because they offer really great water analytics, usage and water damage insurance plan.  They do a nightly pressure test and can let you know if there is a small leak.  It is cloud based however but I can say that our family has been very happy with the flo as it's caught us overfilling the hot tub twice now lol!

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6 minutes ago, Cinegration said:

We're almost complete with the new version of the flo driver and should have it out in the next two weeks.  The flo is nice because they offer really great water analytics, usage and water damage insurance plan.  They do a nightly pressure test and can let you know if there is a small leak.  It is cloud based however but I can say that our family has been very happy with the flo as it's caught us overfilling the hot tub twice now lol!

thanks - do you know the gpm that Flo can detect?  I could not find it on their website and they do not have a very obvious contact page.  And its $5/month for the service right?

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Have you looked at Flologic?  They have a new module that makes it a hybrid cloud/on-prem device.  At least I think that is how it works, I haven't added the module yet.  Impressive it will work on a system I installed years ago.

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44 minutes ago, turls said:

Have you looked at Flologic?  They have a new module that makes it a hybrid cloud/on-prem device.  At least I think that is how it works, I haven't added the module yet.  Impressive it will work on a system I installed years ago.

flologic appears to be 2-4x the cost of Flo, Bouy, Phyn, Streamlabs, etc.  Wondering why?  Specs wise it looks on par with the others.

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2 hours ago, eggzlot said:

thanks - do you know the gpm that Flo can detect?  I could not find it on their website and they do not have a very obvious contact page.  And its $5/month for the service right?

I don’t know how sensitive it is in terms of gpm but I I can say that it is very sensitive.  I have this installed at both my home and holiday home and have been very impressed so far.  It picks up leaks that are just a few drips within a minute (can be a problem as w shave various auto fillers for pools and jacuzzis etc.).  
 

My only frustration is the current lack of a driver...

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2 hours ago, Cinegration said:

We're almost complete with the new version of the flo driver and should have it out in the next two weeks.  The flo is nice because they offer really great water analytics, usage and water damage insurance plan.  They do a nightly pressure test and can let you know if there is a small leak.  It is cloud based however but I can say that our family has been very happy with the flo as it's caught us overfilling the hot tub twice now lol!

Ecstatic to hear that this is only 2 weeks away as I am eagerly awaiting this!

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On 1/14/2020 at 1:50 PM, South Africa C4 user said:

Ecstatic to hear that this is only 2 weeks away as I am eagerly awaiting this!

I think it is odd that Moen promotes the Control4 functionality on their main page for this but then left the driver writers high and dry when they changed the API.  Why does that happen in this day and age?

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On 1/14/2020 at 1:14 PM, eggzlot said:

flologic appears to be 2-4x the cost of Flo, Bouy, Phyn, Streamlabs, etc.  Wondering why?  Specs wise it looks on par with the others.

No idea, but I'd like to know also.  It sounds like Flo has monthly recurring costs (which doesn't prevent you from getting nuked by an API change obviously?)  I'd rather not invest $300 in the add-on module if I can buy a whole different system at a comparable cost. 

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36 minutes ago, turls said:

I think it is odd that Moen promotes the Control4 functionality on their main page for this but then left the driver writers high and dry when they changed the API.  Why does that happen in this day and age?

Yeah... a bit weird! I certainly hope the driver really is only a week away now as it is not just the driver writers that are high and dry but also the end user. 
That said, the new Flo app is much better than the old one! And the fact that it now caters for multiple residences is a big plus!

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On 1/14/2020 at 7:13 PM, Cinegration said:

We're almost complete with the new version of the flo driver and should have it out in the next two weeks.  The flo is nice because they offer really great water analytics, usage and water damage insurance plan.  They do a nightly pressure test and can let you know if there is a small leak.  It is cloud based however but I can say that our family has been very happy with the flo as it's caught us overfilling the hot tub twice now lol!

@Cinegration - any update on when the new version will be available?

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7 hours ago, South Africa C4 user said:

@Cinegration - any update on when the new version will be available?

We are waiting for flo to finish their oauth. Once this is done we can finish our side.  Though they would get this done quicker.  Once it’s done we’ll release the driver. 
 

thanks!

 

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11 minutes ago, Cinegration said:

We are waiting for flo to finish their oauth. Once this is done we can finish our side.  Though they would get this done quicker.  Once it’s done we’ll release the driver. 
 

thanks!

 

This Flow is a Moen product? So any chance this driver will work with my U by Moen shower?

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2 minutes ago, c4toys said:

This Flow is a Moen product? So any chance this driver will work with my U by Moen shower?

No :(   Both brands are owned by Moen but they are two different divisions.  We are looking into this heavily but no timeframe or manufacture commitment yet. 

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What are the best smart water main shut off valves that everyone is using?

we are currently building a new home and would like the plumber to install one .

 

thanks in advance 

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23 minutes ago, antneed said:

What are the best smart water main shut off valves that everyone is using?

we are currently building a new home and would like the plumber to install one .

 

thanks in advance 

I would have recommended Flo by Moen... it really is a great piece of hardware... but the driver has been out of commission for 3 or 4 months and I am beginning to doubt that it will return soon 😪

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We have clients adopting Leaksmart. On the plus side it has a certified Control4 driver, it works even when cloud services are disrupted (it caught a laundry leak at my home and shut off water supply immediately even though cloud services happened to be offline). So if you want real time intervention to stop leaks immediately, I would go Leaksmart.

We looked at Flo, and it does have nice analytics but it's nowhere near as real time or as accurate Leaksmart or other products that use actual sensors in key "wet" locations vs being smart about water flow to your home.

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I need some guidance on LeakSmart. Their site has multiple products that seem to do the same thing. As a Control4 user what LeakSmart products Would i require? Note I already have water sensors tied in with my alarm panel. Can i tie them in with the shut off valve via Control4? Will this eliminate the need for the LeakSmart hub and sensors?

 

Thank you

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Actually Control4 integration doesn't add  that much value to Leaksmart, just a nice to have feature.

If you have leak sensors already in your alarm system, you should get alerted but no water shut off. To achieve water shut off, you need one of their water shut off devices attached to your water supply, their hub and their sensors for all your "wet" areas. I wouldn't attempt to tie them to your alarm via Control4 - you want absolute reliability in the event of water ingress.

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Can the Shut of valve be used independently? Without their hubs and sensors?

AND I see three valves

1. With Flow

2. Shut off Valve

3. Snap

Are all three shut off valves or you could get all three to work in one system

 

Then there is the matter of sensors

Okay this what I’m understanding.

 

Since I already have sensors = I do not need the Hub or the LeakSmart sensors. I see them more for alerts and locating the leak as oppose to actually shutting off the water. Is that assumption correct.

I do have other houses that I plan to install a shutoff valve that does not have water sensors.

One, I’m assuming that the hub and sensors are nice to have for alerts and notification but not necessarily a necessary component of shutting off the water. Again verification appreciated for clarification.

Thirdly, If I do choose to use their sensors as oppose to the water sensors contact via the alarm panel. How are they? I like water sensors that are wired to the panel for two reasons one, no batteries to change two they easier to place with their foot print smaller than the sensor pucks these systems ussualy sell.

 

Cheers 

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Yes, there are different types of shut off valves depending on how you want to install the, water supply diameter. Ask your plumber if it's not making sense. I assume only have one water supply line to your house so you wold only need one.

The hub and sensors are critical for alerts, notifications and telling the shut-off valve to close. How else do you propose to turn off your water supply in the event of a leak?

For Leaksmart to work you must use their sensors. As I said above, for reliability reasons I would not attempt to get this to work via Control4.

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