rf9000 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Guys, About to start a large rough in wiring project. My guys are going to pull the wires and the my dealer will do final installation and programming. That is the plan thus far. So, I'm going to visit with my dealer of course, but I need any and all advice on rough in wiring. Sorry for the long post but please read. If you reply, please let me know what you are suggesting along with wire size, etc. We are also really looking for some unique things to incorporate that you all of done with occupancy sensors, lighting, etc.lastly, if you would suggest more equipment, please let me know. For the home, here is what I have: -C4 CONTROL and WIRELESS: Equipment: EA5, EA1s (3), WALL Touchscreens (4), Access points (6) in the home, garage, and outdoors, multiple network switches with at least 50 ports of POE (only need 5 watts per POE port) Touchscreens I will run one Cat6 to each location. Controllers will be located in control room where all this wiring will terminate -AUDIO. Equipment: Speakers, subwoofers, Triad 24 audio switch, Triad 8 audio switch, (3) Triad 8 zone amplifiers, Subwoofer amplifiers, voltage amplifier for landscape zones 32 zones of audio. 24 of these zones will be regular stereo zones located in the house/garage. 2 zones will be for front landscape speakers and rear landscape speakers that will be voltage runs (about 7 speakers on each zone). The remaining six zones will be subwoofer zones. These subwoofers zones will be programmed to come with certain stereo zones. For example, we have two subwoofers in the kitchen so when kitchen stereo zone is selected we want the kitchen subwoofer zone to come on too playing the same music. The other subwoofer zones are the same kind of zones in the house and also we have several outdoor subwoofers that will come on with the landscape zones. For wire, my plan is to tun 16 gauge wire to all in house stereo zones. To run 14 guage to all in house subwoofer zones, outdoor subwoofer zones, outdoor landscape zones. -HVAC. Equipment: (6) C4 THERMs I will have three furnaces and three Air Conditioners and two garage heaters. There will be four HVAC zones in the house. All of this equipment, minus the garage heaters and THERMs, will be located in an "under the house" utility room. My plan was to place C4 thermostats in this room, four of them for the four house zones (the two for each garage heater will be in the garage). For wire, I was going to run 18/5 from the furnaces to the thermostats. -ALEXA. Equipment: 14 Echo 3s. I have dummy ceiling speakers with mounts inside for the Echos so that they will be hidden in the ceiling. There will be an electrical outlet inside the ceiling at each location for power. I was going to run two Cat6 wires to each location and use those Cat6 to 3.5mm adapters for each Echo -DOOR STATION Equipment: One C4 DS2 I was planning to run one Cat6 wire to the door location -LIGHTING: Equipment: multiple APD dimmers, Switches, KP Dimmers, Keypads, etc. These will of course be all 120V wired and then programmed -SECURITY and CAMERAS: Equipment: 8 flush mount door sensors I haven't decided on what to do here yet. Would really like some recommendations. Was thing either DSC or Paradox. Paradox's equipment looks nicer and a little modern, like it wasn't designed in the 80s like most security equipment. All alarm and security will be hardwired. Was going to run 22/4 to any security touchscreens and 22/2 to any motions or door sensors. Cameras I would run one Cat6 but don't know what kind of POE cameras to get. Looking for recommendations in this area. Really want some nice clear cameras (4k) that operate smoothly within C4. Also, do the PTZ cameras work well? On my previous system the cameras had such delay and had to navigate through a couple menus to get them to come up on screen so just never used them. Too much of a pain. Also, don't know if I want to jump into DVR for the cameras, but if I do I want something that is set and forget. Automatically records and then writes over itself. -BLINDS: Equipment: None I'm pretty sure that I'm going with a brand that has POE motors. So basically would have to run one Cat6 to each blind location -VIDEO: Equipment: Samsung Smart TVs (12) I have decided to skip the video distribution dinosaur. At our home now we mainly watch, Netflix, HBONow, and we even canceled our regular cable service and now have YouTube TV. So really just App programs through our Samsung TVs. We also want to maybe use 1-2 of these TVs as source for the C4 Audio system. So for example, when we are watching a football game, we can have it played throughout the house. I have heard of people having problems with this though with lip syncing, etc. so I want to get your feedback on that and what I should do for wiring. Is it just a RCA audio out cable from TV home ran back to the control room? -SPRINKLERS: Equipment: None Just want to incorporate my sprinkler system into C4. I do not know what to run for wire their to the controller for the sprinklers or what equipment to buy that works best -GARAGE: Equipment: None I want to integrate my garage doors. I will have five garage doors, all will have Liftmaster 8500 jackshaft openers on them. I would like to be notified when the doors are open have a certain time of the day, etc. Would also like the capability to remotely open and close the garage doors. -POOL and FIRE: Equipment: None Not sure what to do here. Our pool will consists of an automatic cover, some deck spray jets, and some underwater lighting. Where I live we can't get to crazy with our pools. The equipment will be Pentair for the pool. I know that Pentair make Intellicontrol systems to ingrate with C4, but don't know if its really worth it. I think code will not allow the automatic cover to be automated, so really would just be controlling the lights. Was thinking of using a regular C4 switch for this? As far as fire features, there will be an outdoor patio regular gas fireplace that has a remote control, was thinking to use a regular C4 switch with this. Also thinking of having two electronic ignition fire bowls. These are the type that can be turned on with a remote, so was thinking I would have regular C4 light switches tied into these to turn these on and off too? IDEAS: Above I have listed the basic system of what I'm thinking. Probably forgot something. I would really appreciate and welcome any and all ideas that you guys may have for some things to do and prepare for that are unique and work well in your experience. I think occupancy sensors are cool and can do some cool things with them but just don't know here to use these. Also, anything you can suggest for when guests arrive, when wife comes home early in the morning from her workouts, when kids get older, some things they might like, etc. Again, sorry for the long post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Quickly replying from my phone but wanted to chime in Garage doors- I would run a cat to each wall button location as well as the motors. What network gear are you proposing to use? Tv locations I suggest versaboxes for a clean look, as well as digital audio baluns to haul the audio back to the head end especially if you are looking to go Samsung. Also you will need controllers at a few/all tv locations based on budget and preference to have zigbee/osd since you aren't going video distribution. 2 Cat6 to the sprinkler controller head end Landscape lighting? Generator? Shielded cat6/fiber/flex conduit to tv locations? More of a finish equipment discussion but battery backups for the racks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, sonic30101 said: Quickly replying from my phone but wanted to chime in Garage doors- I would run a cat to each wall button location as well as the motors. What network gear are you proposing to use? Tv locations I suggest versaboxes for a clean look, as well as digital audio baluns to haul the audio back to the head end especially if you are looking to go Samsung. Also you will need controllers at a few/all tv locations based on budget and preference to have zigbee/osd since you aren't going video distribution. 2 Cat6 to the sprinkler controller head end Landscape lighting? Generator? Shielded cat6/fiber/flex conduit to tv locations? More of a finish equipment discussion but battery backups for the racks Thanks for quick reply. On the: Garage Doors: I will run one Cat6 to the motor and one Cat6 to the wall button location, but do I run any to the rails themselves so that system can detect when open or close, or will the Liftmaster MyQ systems automatically do this, hence the reason we are running the Cat to the motor? Networking gear: Not sure yet. Would just like some good suggestions on brand and model numbers to run my whole system, with the POE capabilities to run blinds and all other equipment. Will have about 30 motorized blinds. Do I need managed or unmanaged switches? TV Locations: What wiring do I need for digital audio baluns? I assume using those for just the TVs that I want to add as sources to the audio matrix? Also, please explain what you mean by preference to have zigbee/osd since I'm not doing video distribution? Landscape Lighting: Yes, we will add control of this, forgot. I have heavy duty landscape transformers already that will be located near the control room. Are those as simple as just leaving the transformers always on and using a regular C4 switch to control the outlet they plug in to for an on/off type of function? No Generator TV locations will all get RG6 quad shield. There is crawlspace under the entire home which we did for the several reasons but one being the entire main level we will have access to. We will be dropping hard pipe PVC from each TV and AV location down through the wall and open into the crawlspace below. Will always be able to drop cables Battery Backups: What do you recommend here with brands and models? I have never looked into this before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, rf9000 said: Thanks for quick reply. On the: Garage Doors: I will run one Cat6 to the motor and one Cat6 to the wall button location, but do I run any to the rails themselves so that system can detect when open or close, or will the Liftmaster MyQ systems automatically do this, hence the reason we are running the Cat to the motor? Networking gear: Not sure yet. Would just like some good suggestions on brand and model numbers to run my whole system, with the POE capabilities to run blinds and all other equipment. Will have about 30 motorized blinds. Do I need managed or unmanaged switches? TV Locations: What wiring do I need for digital audio baluns? I assume using those for just the TVs that I want to add as sources to the audio matrix? Also, please explain what you mean by preference to have zigbee/osd since I'm not doing video distribution? Landscape Lighting: Yes, we will add control of this, forgot. I have heavy duty landscape transformers already that will be located near the control room. Are those as simple as just leaving the transformers always on and using a regular C4 switch to control the outlet they plug in to for an on/off type of function? No Generator TV locations will all get RG6 quad shield. There is crawlspace under the entire home which we did for the several reasons but one being the entire main level we will have access to. We will be dropping hard pipe PVC from each TV and AV location down through the wall and open into the crawlspace below. Will always be able to drop cables Battery Backups: What do you recommend here with brands and models? I have never looked into this before for MyQ you can either get the driver (which works perfectly but can be broken by any API changes since its not "official") or you can wire up sensors to the door, break open an extra remote and solder in a relay to press the button open/closed. For sprinklers, there are a few drivers that work with Rachio and no additional wiring is needed. Networking gear - C4 recommends unmanaged - but you said you need PoE switches so that may limit your options especially for larger switches. If you are a very network savvy that is one thing, but if not, get the network hardware recommended by your dealer. If they are setting it up, it should be something they know works and how to work it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 For garage to know open/closed you can use your security door sensors. Then use MyQ to actually open and close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cart Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 MyQ does show feedback but some of my customers have noticed issues with delayed feedback and no feedback at all when opening it from another source not C4. I would recommend a zigbee contact sensor on the bottom (some do bottom and top so you can know if its half open) or a garage tilt sensor. poseidonsystems 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 What is the general practice for wire size for speakers? Do you run 14 or 16 AWG to ceiling speakers? For outdoor buried speaker wire, do you run 14 or 16 AWG? What about for indoor ceiling subwoofers and the outdoor buried subwoofers? 12, 14, or 16 AWG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, rf9000 said: What is the general practice for wire size for speakers? Do you run 14 or 16 AWG to ceiling speakers? For outdoor buried speaker wire, do you run 14 or 16 AWG? What about for indoor ceiling subwoofers and the outdoor buried subwoofers? 12, 14, or 16 AWG? 12 AWG or 14 AWG depending on length of the runs, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, eggzlot said: 12 AWG or 14 AWG depending on length of the runs, etc Do you really think for in celling speakers and landscape speakers that I need OFC wire (Oxygen Free)? And only would need to be CL2 and not CL3 for the interior wire I'm guessing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, rf9000 said: Do you really think for in celling speakers and landscape speakers that I need OFC wire (Oxygen Free)? And only would need to be CL2 and not CL3 for the interior wire I'm guessing I didn't get too fancy. I am using Monoprice 12AWG but I had also used some 14AWG in the past. Given these are in ceiling speakers for background music it is really not noticable. These are not "critical" listening areas. I doubt you'll hear a difference. Just make sure if they are going in wall they are rated as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, eggzlot said: I didn't get too fancy. I am using Monoprice 12AWG but I had also used some 14AWG in the past. Given these are in ceiling speakers for background music it is really not noticable. These are not "critical" listening areas. I doubt you'll hear a difference. Just make sure if they are going in wall they are rated as such. Thanks. Got another question. So I will roughly have 7 landscape speakers in the front yard and 7 landscape speakers in the back yard. I was using two zones for these as these speakers are optional voltage speakers. They are Crestron and below are the specs. What would you use for wire to interconnect these speakers. Think of using a Crown CDI amplifier Features & Performance Woofer 6.5 inch (165 mm) polypropylene w/rubber surround & steel basket Tweeter 0.8 inch (20 mm) treated cloth dome, coaxially mounted Crossover Frequency 2.5 kHz Impedance 8 Ohms nominal with transformer set to "8Ω" Transformer Taps 3.75W or 15W at 70V; 7.5W at 100V Frequency Response 100 Hz to 20 kHz (±3 dB) Frequency Range 80 Hz to 20 kHz (-10 dB) Power Handling 75 Watts program (8 Ohms) Sensitivity 85 dB @ 1W/1m Coverage 105° conical (nominal) Connections Input (1) 3 feet (1 m) attached direct burial cable containing (2) 16 AWG (1.31 mm²) conductors, unterminated; Includes two waterproof wire nuts; requires a suitable electrical junction box (not included) Controls Transformer Tap (1) Recessed screwdriver-adjustable rotary switch on rear; Used to select 70/100V tap or 8 Ohms (bypass) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, rf9000 said: Thanks. Got another question. So I will roughly have 7 landscape speakers in the front yard and 7 landscape speakers in the back yard. I was using two zones for these as these speakers are optional voltage speakers. They are Crestron and below are the specs. What would you use for wire to interconnect these speakers. Think of using a Crown CDI amplifier Features & Performance Woofer 6.5 inch (165 mm) polypropylene w/rubber surround & steel basket Tweeter 0.8 inch (20 mm) treated cloth dome, coaxially mounted Crossover Frequency 2.5 kHz Impedance 8 Ohms nominal with transformer set to "8Ω" Transformer Taps 3.75W or 15W at 70V; 7.5W at 100V Frequency Response 100 Hz to 20 kHz (±3 dB) Frequency Range 80 Hz to 20 kHz (-10 dB) Power Handling 75 Watts program (8 Ohms) Sensitivity 85 dB @ 1W/1m Coverage 105° conical (nominal) Connections Input (1) 3 feet (1 m) attached direct burial cable containing (2) 16 AWG (1.31 mm²) conductors, unterminated; Includes two waterproof wire nuts; requires a suitable electrical junction box (not included) Controls Transformer Tap (1) Recessed screwdriver-adjustable rotary switch on rear; Used to select 70/100V tap or 8 Ohms (bypass) These are specs for the Crown amp, looks like the CDI 1000 model would be plenty for these if say I have seven of them on one run. At 70Vrms, that amp puts out 500w x 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokead Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 MyQ does show feedback but some of my customers have noticed issues with delayed feedback and no feedback at all when opening it from another source not C4. I would recommend a zigbee contact sensor on the bottom (some do bottom and top so you can know if its half open) or a garage tilt sensor.That’s what I use my security sensor for. If it’s not closed, I get a text and it shows in my security sensors Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poseidonsystems Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 18 hours ago, Cart said: MyQ does show feedback but some of my customers have noticed issues with delayed feedback and no feedback at all when opening it from another source not C4. I would recommend a zigbee contact sensor on the bottom (some do bottom and top so you can know if its half open) or a garage tilt sensor. I would definitely wire to the garage door rails or at the close position The Myq driver keeps getting updated and you're better off just wiring this straight to the EA5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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