Roku versus ATV

[Time2Jet]

I want to be able to watch content that contains a Dolby Atmos tracks in my Media Room.  I have a Roku Ultra and frankly, it offers barely anything Atmos (def not Netflix).  ATV is far superior (Atmos offering-wise), as is almost every other streamer.  Roku also has had significant EDID issues for most of us that matrix and extend, particularly via Denon (even the flagship Denon X8500).  And Roku has known (very frustrating)audio-sync issues with common setups. 

Roku is inexpensive, sexy and offers probably more apps than anything else out there. Roku Ultra integrates fantastically.  ATV seems to always be broken (I don't have one, so I'm not familiar).

Can someone tell me the state of ATV today with currently available drivers, current Apple OS and C4 OS3.11?  What is the ATV mini app situation?  Have or not?  I have to weigh my options.  I'm very frustrated with Roku, as awesome as it can be.  Don't get me wrong, its amazing, but not in my environment.

 

[msgreenf]

there are no apple TV mini apps - yes it does have better audio options but it doesn't have mini apps

[Time2Jet]

39 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

there are no apple TV mini apps - yes it does have better audio options but it doesn't have mini apps

Mitch - Whats the current state of the driver?

 

[msgreenf]

Just what I said. It works fine for navigation but no direct app launching

[Matt Lowe]

Look at a shield TV its a much more powerful option and has been rock solid for me with the IRUSB.  @alanchow Has a great suite of drivers too fully integrate plex and kodi too!

[Time2Jet]

21 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Just what I said. It works fine for navigation but no direct app launching

Why so many posts about broken ATV?  

[Time2Jet]

7 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said:

Look at a shield TV its a much more powerful option and has been rock solid for me with the IRUSB.  @alanchow Has a great suite of drivers too fully integrate plex and kodi too!

mini drivers Matt?

[msgreenf]

mini drivers Matt?

Yes

[msgreenf]

Why so many posts about broken ATV?  

Not sure. But there are a lot of different integrations depending on Apple TV version and Control4 hardware and version

[Matt Lowe]

3 minutes ago, time2jet said:

mini drivers Matt?

more than just mini drivers. I use the plex driver myself. I can browse my entire plex library from control4 navigator pick a movies and have it launch right to it. or pick a movie in plex and have it launch as well.

[Time2Jet]

more than just mini drivers. I use the plex driver myself. I can browse my entire plex library from control4 navigator pick a movies and have it launch right to it. or pick a movie in plex and have it launch as well.

I'm embarrassed to admit, I don't know much about Plex.  Based on what you posted, it appears to be an aggregator type interface? I always assumed it was more for people that had large collections on a NAS etc.  I used to do Mede8ers & Dunes years ago when I was a ripper, but I shyed away 5-6 years ago for a Kaleidescape system, but that got insanely expensive for as little time I had.

 

[Matt Lowe]

7 minutes ago, time2jet said:

I'm embarrassed to admit, I don't know much about Plex.  Based on what yu posted, it appears to be an aggregator type interface? I always assumed it was more for people that had large collections on a NAS etc.  I used to do Mede8ers & Dunes years ago when I was a ripper, but I shyed away 5-6 years ago for a Kaleidescape system, but that got insanely expensive for as little time I had.

you are spot on. its a wanna be kaleidescape.

[ekohn00]

14 hours ago, Matt Lowe said:

you are spot on. its a wanna be kaleidescape.

I moved from KScape to Plex....KScape costs got out of control, and moving form DVD->BLURAY->4K is a fork lift upgrade each time.  I'd rather buy a couple of Porsches.....

That said, Plex is a great server, worth doing a little research....   And if you're doing 4K, I'd recommend infuse as your client. We run Plex on a Synology NAS. then have Infuse on our AppleTVs...  great solution for streaming Movies!!!  The only downside vs Kscape is having to RIP the movies on your own.

[Time2Jet]

Now you’ve gotten me more curious. I assume to see the streaming (versus local) benefit of Plex you’d have to first install a Shield? I launch the Plex app from Roku and it’s just so unappealing. I was hoping it allowed a search that shows me options as to where to pull from. I’m also looking at Infuse, but again... not sure I see it’s relevance to my needs. I dumped my entire media collection because steaming became too cheap and the quality was nearing hard media, if not exceeding.

I’m trying to get the best possible audio and video formats. Roku isn’t the answer. ATV has no mini apps, XBox is physically clunky and I hate wasting the gaming aspects of it by having it sit on my rack.

So it might come down to a Shield. Is there anywhere I can see screenshots?


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[msgreenf]

Plex app won't really show you much if you don't have a Plex backend running

[ekohn00]

13 hours ago, time2jet said:

Now you’ve gotten me more curious. I assume to see the streaming (versus local) benefit of Plex you’d have to first install a Shield? I launch the Plex app from Roku and it’s just so unappealing. I was hoping it allowed a search that shows me options as to where to pull from. I’m also looking at Infuse, but again... not sure I see it’s relevance to my needs. I dumped my entire media collection because steaming became too cheap and the quality was nearing hard media, if not exceeding.

I’m trying to get the best possible audio and video formats. Roku isn’t the answer. ATV has no mini apps, XBox is physically clunky and I hate wasting the gaming aspects of it by having it sit on my rack.

So it might come down to a Shield. Is there anywhere I can see screenshots?


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sounds a bit confusing....  but if you dumped your entire media collection and just want to stream, solutions like Plex and infuse are not for you. These are used with media servers.

 

[KWD]

If you have local media you can install Plex server on any PC(Windows, Mac Linux) and check out the Plex interface on any PC(Windows, Mac, Linux, including the one the server is on)

If you only want to stream and don't have any local media then as mentioned Plex isn't for you. 

Now you mentioned Atmos. You are not getting Dolby True HD Atmos (lossless) with any of the streaming services, it is DD+. It will be Atmos but compressed and not at the same quality as the BD. If that matters then you might want to look into setting up a local library. To go deeper into the weeds, a Windows PC and Shield are the ONLY devices (minus dedicated BD players and boxes like Kalied$cope) that will let you bitstream Dolby True HD. 

Do you have a theater room with a projector?

[Time2Jet]

1 hour ago, KWD said:

If you have local media you can install Plex server on any PC(Windows, Mac Linux) and check out the Plex interface on any PC(Windows, Mac, Linux, including the one the server is on)

If you only want to stream and don't have any local media then as mentioned Plex isn't for you. 

Now you mentioned Atmos. You are not getting Dolby True HD Atmos (lossless) with any of the streaming services, it is DD+. It will be Atmos but compressed and not at the same quality as the BD. If that matters then you might want to look into setting up a local library. To go deeper into the weeds, a Windows PC and Shield are the ONLY devices (minus dedicated BD players and boxes like Kalied$cope) that will let you bitstream Dolby True HD. 

Do you have a theater room with a projector?

I ditched my entire NAS collection about 5 years ago when it just seemed so much less work to rent or stream.  I started with Dune and Mede8ers, then to Kailedescape, but the expense was getting out of control, so I sold my system to a client. 

No, I don't have a projector, but I have a media room with a Samsung 75Q900R display and a 7.2.4 setup driven by a Denon X8500.  It's a nice setup, albeit the acoustics could use some tweaking.  Anything Atmos that I have played via BD has been really impressive.

So, ATV Netflix for instance isn't true Atmos?  From what I've researched, Netflix can play an Atmos track with ATV 4K, Xbox and Shield.  I have Roku Ultra's now and I they won't stream Atmos via Netflix (there's a matrix out there showing what streaming services have Atmos on which streamers).  I want my cake and to eat it too... I want Atmos, HDR and Mini Apps.  That's a tall order.

[BraydonH]

I could be wrong about this but I did some googling and im pretty sure this will work for what you want.

If you got a new 2020 Sony TV with eARC im pretty sure it would have all the things you asked for. Atmos, HDR, and Mini Apps. I mean replacing your TV probably isn't cheap but you said you wanted your cake and eat it too.

[South Africa C4 user]

I love my Apple TV and have found the new official C4 driver rock solid (a slight pain to set up the first time).

No Mini Apps but not a big miss as the ATV UI is pretty good.

If you want NAS functionality, Infuse (as mentioned above) is great on the Apple TV. I am still waiting for the day we get an Infuse Driver for C4... that would be Utopia for me!

[KWD]

2 hours ago, time2jet said:

I ditched my entire NAS collection about 5 years ago when it just seemed so much less work to rent or stream.  I started with Dune and Mede8ers, then to Kailedescape, but the expense was getting out of control, so I sold my system to a client. 

No, I don't have a projector, but I have a media room with a Samsung 75Q900R display and a 7.2.4 setup driven by a Denon X8500.  It's a nice setup, albeit the acoustics could use some tweaking.  Anything Atmos that I have played via BD has been really impressive.

So, ATV Netflix for instance isn't true Atmos?  From what I've researched, Netflix can play an Atmos track with ATV 4K, Xbox and Shield.  I have Roku Ultra's now and I they won't stream Atmos via Netflix (there's a matrix out there showing what streaming services have Atmos on which streamers).  I want my cake and to eat it too... I want Atmos, HDR and Mini Apps.  That's a tall order.

No streaming service offers lossless Atmos. It's all going to be compressed DD+, which may not matter depending on your ears and equipment.

If you want uncompressed  TrueHD Atmos is either going to be from a UHD BD or a rip from that BD. It's also has to be played back on a device that can bitstream the audio track. Shield is currently the only one that can besides a Windows PC from a rip. 

The only one that will do what you want is the 2019 Shield and give you the option to go Plex with a local library of TrueHD movies. 

Only reason I asked about the projector is because the one limitation currently with the Shield is that it can't tonemap HDR from UHD to HD. If you have all HDR UHD displays you are golden.  

[ILoveC4]

Apple does support direct app launching via the Apple Shortcuts app. Someone could reverse engineer this and provide mini apps. I’d try, but it’s enough outside my comfortable skill set that it would take more time than I’ve got at the moment. 

[ekohn00]

19 hours ago, South Africa C4 user said:

I love my Apple TV and have found the new official C4 driver rock solid (a slight pain to set up the first time).

No Mini Apps but not a big miss as the ATV UI is pretty good.

If you want NAS functionality, Infuse (as mentioned above) is great on the Apple TV. I am still waiting for the day we get an Infuse Driver for C4... that would be Utopia for me!

Doing the same with one exception....I love Plex on the NAS. It can't be beat for metadata management. Personally I think the infuse interface has a lot to be desired (I like Plex WAY WAY more) but infuse handles 4K far better. 

Since I'm on a AppleTv and I find the driver solid lately (w/ latest TV OS), not sure I really care about drivers or mini apps.... I don't mind hitting a few extra arrow keys. 

Not sure what a infuse driver would buy me??

[zaphod]

On 2/16/2020 at 5:06 PM, time2jet said:

I'm embarrassed to admit, I don't know much about Plex.  Based on what you posted, it appears to be an aggregator type interface? I always assumed it was more for people that had large collections on a NAS etc.  I used to do Mede8ers & Dunes years ago when I was a ripper, but I shyed away 5-6 years ago for a Kaleidescape system, but that got insanely expensive for as little time I had.

 

Plex is media management software that was forked from XBMC, not unlike Kodi, and a bunch of other things that have come and gone over the years.  Plex is best as a front end for local media files, like ripped DVDs or other video files, or archived TV shows.  Increasingly Plex is providing its own streaming content and pushing you to that conent.  They appear to make money from the via ads. 

[Time2Jet]

The coming TiVo Stream 4K, albeit short on apps, is interesting. Waiting to see the specs. Looks like an aggregator type interface for content. No idea what it will he capable of beyond Dolby Vision, which doesn’t really help this Samsung guy.


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