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SMART HOME PRO TIPS: Easy ceiling fan integration

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Well, thanks to this forum and all of you helping out I think I decided to go with bond and leave my RF fan modules (and 1 IR where I’ll put the bridge that’s centrally locates to all of the fans I want to control) in the fans. This way I can use the remotes to switch the fan direction, or the Bond app, if my dealer isn’t good with experience buttons (they have not installed a bond bridge yet - ugh!). I may reach out to someone for remote help to set this up after we get the system up and running and work out the bugs with our installer.

So if I go this route, should I just get a mechanical switch for the ‘dummy’ light switch that is being bypassed to the RF/IR modules for the fan lights and then get a keypad dimmer instead of what I was going to do - a dimmer switch for hardwiring the lights and a fan controller for the fan control? This would seem to give me more options for programming if I’m just going to use the Bond setup. Can a keypad dimmer be installed where the fan toggle switch is now instead of a fan controller (ie will it handle the fan load)?
 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, msgreenf said:
37 minutes ago, Pounce said:
I don't see the pro version on Amazon. Got a link?

Sorry. I was referring to the regular bond not the pro. Idk where to get the pro

Ah. Thanks for trying.

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1 hour ago, msgreenf said:

You don't want to use any Control4 switch w the fan if you are using the bond.

Ok, that’s interesting. Now that you say that, I guess it’s like Hue where the power has to stay on. Hmmm.

So neither the fan speed controller nor a keypad dimmer would work with Bond then?

Could I use a configurable keypad on either the existing fan switch or the ‘Dummy’ light switch or is that the same issue?

How would you operate the fan and light from the entry light gang via bond if you can’t use C4 switches at all?

I was going to put in a keypad dimmer in the same gang so maybe I could use a few of those buttons for fan control but that limits what I planned to do with the room config.

How do people normally set this up then? I may be out of theories so any ideas would be appreciated.
 

Thought I had this figured out but not so fast I guess. . . 
 

Appreciate the help!

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you want the light/fan to have constant power if you are going to use the bond to control it.

You can then use any control4 interface/buttons/keypads/remotes/osd to control it

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12 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

you want the light/fan to have constant power if you are going to use the bond to control it.

You can then use any control4 interface/buttons/keypads/remotes/osd to control it

Right, I get that, thank you! What I’m trying to figure out is how to get some sort of keypad on one of the loads to control the fan speed and fan lights without having to add another gang into the mix for a configurable keypad (seems like the only option I can think of but not a good one as some of the faceplates would end up with an ugly 5 gang situation).

Again, I’m going to have a keypad dimmer in each room for a different load and control but I already have the button layout planned for those and would rather not have to piggyback on that specific keypad for fan speed/light control Is there any way to wire another keypad on either of the fan light or speed switches? 
 

I think I have a workaround in one room where I can put a second keypad dimmer on a light load and use that for the Bond control in addition to that specific load but the other three rooms are where I would have the issues.

Sorry, not purposefully trying to be dense here, just trying to understand. Appreciate your patience and help!

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2 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

in theory you could use a keypad with a load and never expose the load to a button and always have it on. but its an expensive way to keep a fan powered on

I believe that’s how the current lighting switch for the fan is setup. The power has to go to the RF module in the fan for the lights but there are currently separate switches there for the lights and the fan speed/power. If I flip the ‘light’ switch, it doesn’t do anything. I still have full fan and fan light control whether that switch is on or off so it must be wired so it’s bypassing the current switch right? Is that normal? If so, couldn’t I just install a configurable keypad On that switch with power still going to the light feed on the fan’s RFmodule? or would I se a keypad dimmer? Either one set up so the power is not controlled by any key presses but just on all the time, which is how I’m assuming it is set up now, just with a toggle switch instead of a keypad. Can either keypad do that?

I’m less worried about cost as adding another gang anywhere is going to be expensive as well.

Thanks again!
 

 

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8 hours ago, Pounce said:

Hey, thanks. It wasn't obvious from the site it wasn't released.

I had the same thought. Wonder if they will ever add garage doors. Would make life easier than soldering a remote. 

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20 hours ago, msgreenf said:

in theory you could use a keypad with a load and never expose the load to a button and always have it on. but its an expensive way to keep a fan powered on

Well, this has all been extremely helpful and confusing at the same time.  I believe the confusion for me is the difference between the electrical wiring needs and the programming.  I get that anything can be programmed however needed, I'm just confused about the electric/wiring needs at each spot and would prefer to have a separate keypad wired that could handle the fan speed and fan light so I wouldn't have to use the main keypad in that room

 I have a plan for what makes sense but wanted to make sure this makes sense and see if anyone can help with a few more questions below:

1. MBR -  Room with IR controlled Fan - Use Bond bridge in that room so the IR hits the fan.  Put in 2 switches (one for the light and one for the fan).  The light switch is currently tied directly into the fan's receive so the current toggle switch does nothing.  Since this switch is doing nothing, I'm assuming I can just put a C4 mechanical switch on that 'load' correct?  For the fan control, I would put a C4 switch (no fan controller or keypad) and have it set so that the load is not controlled by the switch so it stays on all the time.  Then we would use a keypad on another switch on that gang and/or the SR260 for fan and light control via the Bond bridge. This will also leave me access to remotely change the fan direction (either in C4 or the bond app) and save a ladder climb.  So for this rooom, does this configuration make sense or am I missing something?

2. FR - Room with RF control - I have 2, 2 gangs in that room - currently one has a fan on/off toggle and a 'dummy' switch for the lights that is currently bypassed to the remote module so it doesn't do anythin. .  I can put a C4 mechanical switch in for the lights (dummy, bypassed toggle switch currently) and then a C4 switch on the fan load. Program the fan switch to not turn off via the switch (i.e. don't expose the load to the button) so it's always on.  On the other gang I have 2 switches - one for hi hats and one for table lamps.  If I put in 1 keypad dimmer on each of these loads, I could control the fan via the Bond bridge since the fan control switch would be set to always on.  This fan is on a 20+ foot ceiling so manually reversing the speed is a chore - again, this would save ladder climbs if I used the Bond app to reverse or set up an experience button.

3. Office - Room with no remote - Confirmed AC motor in fan so a fan controller would work on that load and a dimmer for the light switch. These wouldn't have to always be on for a remote receiver so the keypad dimmer on a separate switch in that gang could control those switch loads and the fan light/speed control with programming correct (ie a scene to turn on the light, TV and fan at med speed so I wouldn't have to hit multiple switches when I enter the room - just the keypad dimmer switch with programming)?

4. BR - 2nd room with RF control - 3 gang - Mechanical switch for the existing 'dummy' bypassed light switch, C4 switch for the fan not exposed to the load so that is always on and then on the third switch I would put a keypad dimmer and use that for fan control via the Bond bridge. This isn't optimal as I don't want to have to use up keypad buttons for fan control but it doesn't look like I have any other option per the comments above. Optimally, I would like to replace the 'dummy' switch with another keypad - either a dimmer or configurable keypad  that I could use to control the fan but it sounds like that isn't possible since that wiring is 'live' to the fan receiver correct? This one has me stumped.

For folks with experience, is this a normal setup that works?  Any ideas on the questions above?

Thanks again everyone, you've all been super helpful and patient!

 

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Have you checked the Bond fcc search for your remotes to see if they are already supported? You can do that on their website.

I'd replace that IR fan. There are literally over 100 fans at Home Depot that support bond or even come with a Bond hub. Instead of buying a separate hub, maybe just buy a fan with the hub. Also, you can get a universal remote/receiver set for like $50 to upgrade fans so that might be an option.

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28 minutes ago, Pounce said:

Have you checked the Bond fcc search for your remotes to see if they are already supported? You can do that on their website.

I'd replace that IR fan. There are literally over 100 fans at Home Depot that support bond or even come with a Bond hub. Instead of buying a separate hub, maybe just buy a fan with the hub. Also, you can get a uniuversal remote/receiver set for like $50 to upgrade fans so that might be an option.

Good thought but these were pretty expensive, decorator ‘approved’ fans so not likely my better half would approve.

I think I’ll be ok with what we’ve got if I can just figure out a couple of these damn switches!!😄

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10 hours ago, Neo1738 said:

I had the same thought. Wonder if they will ever add garage doors. Would make life easier than soldering a remote. 

Generic devices were added in for garage doors.  The reason why they couldn’t call it garage doors in specific was due to laws prohibiting them from controlling garage doors without visual feedback.

Our driver will allow you to control these generic devices for open / close / on / off control.

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2 hours ago, Jakelay said:

Good thought but these were pretty expensive, decorator ‘approved’ fans so not likely my better half would approve.

I think I’ll be ok with what we’ve got if I can just figure out a couple of these damn switches!!😄

Do you know if you can fit an RF receiver in the fan to replace the IR?

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43 minutes ago, Pounce said:

Do you know if you can fit an RF receiver in the fan to replace the IR?

For reference this is a Smart By Bond controller which can be retrofit into standard ceiling fans to make it smart.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Universal-Smart-Wi-Fi-4-Speed-Ceiling-Fan-Remote-Works-with-Google-Assistant-SmartThings-and-Alexa-99434/311264804

allows 4 fan speeeds, dimmable light and is compatible with most major brand downrod style ceiling fans - Hampton Bay, Home Decorators collection, hunter and more

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2 hours ago, Pounce said:

Do you know if you can fit an RF receiver in the fan to replace the IR?

Is there a pressing reason to choose RF over IR if the fan and module are already in place? Just curious if the Bond bridge can operate via IR or we could run a control emitter somewhere.  Again, just curious since it’s come up a few times.  Maybe I’m missing something?

Also, any thoughts on the switch ‘designs’ I listed above? Really trying to nail,this down as my install is scheduled for next week.

Thanks again - love this forum!!

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2 hours ago, Jakelay said:

Is there a pressing reason to choose RF over IR if the fan and module are already in place? Just curious if the Bond bridge can operate via IR or we could run a control emitter somewhere.  Again, just curious since it’s come up a few times.  Maybe I’m missing something?

Also, any thoughts on the switch ‘designs’ I listed above? Really trying to nail,this down as my install is scheduled for next week.

Thanks again - love this forum!!

Pressing reason? Like a button? ;)

RF doesn't have a line of sight issue and one Bond hub can live somewhere out of sight and serve most if not all of the location. With the right RF receiver you get two way communication. Alan pointed this out. So, if you use the remote (that is RF) to turn on the fan to speed 3 then the Bond hub knows its on speed 3 and then with the integration Control3 knows its on speed 3.

Have you looked at the Bond product and its features?

Do you know the make and model of the fan you have that is IR controlled?

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3 hours ago, Pounce said:

So, if you use the remote (that is RF) to turn on the fan to speed 3 then the Bond hub knows its on speed 3 and then with the integration Control3 knows its on speed 3.

This is not true.

Bond's RF transmission is only one-way.  The only exception to this is smart by bond fans where we get true bi-directional control.

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7 hours ago, Pounce said:

Pressing reason? Like a button? ;)

RF doesn't have a line of sight issue and one Bond hub can live somewhere out of sight and serve most if not all of the location. With the right RF receiver you get two way communication. Alan pointed this out. So, if you use the remote (that is RF) to turn on the fan to speed 3 then the Bond hub knows its on speed 3 and then with the integration Control3 knows its on speed 3.

Have you looked at the Bond product and its features?

Do you know the make and model of the fan you have that is IR controlled?

I see what you did there with the button!😂

So from Alan’s post it looks like the Bond receiver unit ‘add one for the fans doesnt’t give two way communication either - only if the unit is built in to the fan so this option is out. And I got a hard no on the new fan idea from the boss so it looks like I’ve got to go with plan A - Bond bridge in the room with the IR fan. I’m also not super concerned about 2 way communication since we are in the northeast so we really only have the fans on when we’re in the rooms and being able to make sure all fans around the house are off at night with an ‘all off’/goodnight command and a keypad LED color change for speed are probably all we need (navigator as well) and those should be doable with programming on commands or button presses.  If something gets out of whack for some reason, we can always just turn them off and then back on while in a room. Likely won’t happen if programmed correctly. I don’t see us using the other fan remotes or Bond app for anything other than programming and direction reverse once a year.

With all of that said, I’m really trying to figure out if the switch configuration I listed above would work. I called all of the manufacturers of the fans where I was considering using a fan controller and all motors are AC so that would work for the room where we would want a fan speed controller so that’s good.

In the other rooms, I was considering a configurable keypad where the ‘dummy’ light switch for the fans are located. I believe those current switches just have power going the switch and then to the ceiling for light control but it’s capped off since the RF receiver modules only need one load for power and control and that comes from the other current switch that exists.

Would there be an issue installing a configurable keypad on that capped off light switch and using that for fan control and then putting a regular C4 switch where the current fan switch is located? The keypad would command the Bond bridge and we’d have to either keep the fan switch on at all times, program it to not bind to power/control the load or just program the switch to turn on when we send a fan command via the system or keypad?

Just trying to see if the configurable keypad would get us what we need. I.e. can we just disconnect the wire on that switch that is currently capped off to the ceiling and use the power going to that switch to power the KC and use that for the bond control? (Or could we just install a keypad dimmer with the same concept on that dummy switch but if the RF receiver or bond bridge ever stops functioning we could wire the lights from that dimmer)?

Thanks again!

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7 hours ago, alanchow said:

This is not true.

Bond's RF transmission is only one-way.  The only exception to this is smart by bond fans where we get true bi-directional control.

I was speaking of the potential with bond supported rf. I understand how that might not have been clear.

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3 hours ago, Jakelay said:

Bond bridge in the room with the IR fan.

Have you gone to the Bond site and read about the product? Those two items can be in the same room together, but they speak different languages.

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Figured out what I'm going to do (finally!).

I'm going to attempt to do everything that I listed above.  If I can't get the Bond to work, I'm just going to go with fan speed controllers and give up the reversing function.  I really wanted to keep the remote modules in place (save on rewiring and keeping all functions available via remote since I have NO reverse switch on two of the fans themselves - only the remotes) but none of my remotes are listed in their database and I did a chat with someone online and they couldn't find the exact models either.  I'm getting my Bond bridge delivered on Thursday and I'll try to see if I can manually program in the remote functions and see if the IR works in the room where I need it.  If not, the installer is going to bring a few extra fan speed controllers and dimmers so we can use those. Nice of him to be willing to do that since I know it's an expense for a little bit.  We'll just get color change kits ordered  if we have to go that route.

For anyone who encounters the same type of two switch setup for your fans, I was able to find out that I can put a configurable keypad (not a keypad dimmer) on the 'dummy' light switch that is currently not connected to anything/capped in the ceiling.  I will use a switch for the fan (I know, it can be turned off but I'm having them program the switch to be turned on before sending a fan or light signal in case it gets turned off by accident).

Optimally, if I can get Bond to work with my fans and the configurable keypad to work with Bond I think I'll be set.  We'll find out later this week when I start playing with the Bond and then next week when my installer comes out.

Thanks again to everyone for you help and suggestions!

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3 hours ago, Jakelay said:

Figured out what I'm going to do (finally!).

 

Nice.

Do you know the actual model and make of the fans? Curious if these are actually DC fans.

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