Roon

[elee532]

On 5/29/2020 at 11:24 AM, Amr said:

Enjoy it, it’s is a beautiful piece, so are u on a lifetime subscription as well?

Just doing annual for now.

[elee532]

On 5/28/2020 at 8:51 PM, elee532 said:

Here's a bit more on my setup... my C4 controller (EA1) and Roon Nucleus are both connected to my Denon AVR. If I connect the EA1 directly to my TV (actually an Epson projector) and keep the Nucleus connected to the Denon, then I do get the experience that I am seeking.

So that leads me to two questions...

1. Is there any downside to having the EA1 connected to my TV instead of my AVR?
2. How big of a project is it to reprogram my system if I change the EA1 connection like this?

Thanks!

Anyone have insight on these two questions?

[Amr]

6 hours ago, elee532 said:

Anyone have insight on these two questions?

I just need to know what you want to achieve, if you are connecting EA1 to the TV you will loose 1 HDMI port in the TV, that's it, it cloud be faster than the AVR switching, depends on your AVR, I have mine connected to the AVR and switched when I press the Red C4 button on the remote.  How big, its nothing actually its a drag and drop probably less than 10 mins work!

[KillerFrog95]

OK - So I'm looking for some help on potentially setting up Roon with Control4.  We recently remodeled our house adding a whole home audio system with C4 for all zones.  We have a modest music collection on CD that I need to digitize (again) with new audio formats - either ALAC (family all has iPhones) or FLAC to incorporate into the system. I am also a TIDAL subscriber.  My wife wants the ability to search our music collection on C4 and play from our CDs, and doesn't really care for the C4 or Tidal interface.  I think Roon may be the answer to our issues, but I want to hear from the C4 experts if this is the best way to add an end users own music collection to their audio system.  My questions are:

1.  Is the Roon Nucleus the only way to get full C4 integration with Roon? Do you still need a media player/streaming device to connect to the EA-5, or does the Nucleus connect to the EA-5 as a direct source via USB?

2.  Does the Roon app on the iPhone then work well with C4 to play music across all zones? (Patio, Living Room, MB, etc.) Or do you continue to use the C4 app / On-screen Interface to play music, add zones to the current session, etc.?

2. Since we are all Apple exclusively, I've considered buying a cheap PC laptop to use as a ROON server, music database, and as a C4 interface as well to program lighting scenes and other integrations with C4 as this cannot be done easily on a Mac it seems. It would be strictly dedicated to this purpose.  (I've done some basic lighting controls with some functions with the web-based utility, but I think there is much greater utility with the PC version from what I understand.) Would that work if we added a media streamer to the EA-5?

3.  I have a Synology NAS as well I can use for music source once all CDs are imported to possible above laptop. That will take some work however and possibly redoing the whole NAS setup, which I am not sure about.  Last resort.

4.  Alternatively, can go with Bluesound Vault 2i or something similar (NAD M50.2, Naim Core) in the rack with the EA-5 and eliminate the Roon Nucleus, but I am not sure that offers the integration we need?

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. My C4 dealer has never really worked with any of this, nor is very familiar with Roon integration.  I want to try and have the components and music importation lined up before setting up their process.  I'm looking for ease of use more than anything.  Just importing the CDs is going to be a major project, so I really don't want to go down a path of setting up/building my own RaspPi or anything like that.  I'm leaning towards the Nucleus with maybe an internal HDD, connected to the C4 EA-5 in the main rack (if that works) and using the above mentioned PC Laptop to import and transfer all music files to the Nucleus internal HDD as well as serve as a backup. I think that will be the easiest setup in the long run??? If a media streamer is needed in addition to the nucleus, maybe the NAD CI-580 or just a Bluesound Node2i as a starting point? Again, thanks in advance for any help.

[elee532]

1. Nucleus is the only option if you want to use the Roon C4 driver. The Nucleus can be both your core and endpoint... so no additional media streamer would be necessary.

2. There is no connection between the C4 app and the Roon app.  With the Roon C4 driver installed, you can play your Roon library from within the C4 app. You lose the rich metadata of the Roon app though. Another option is to use the C4 app to fire up your system, choose the right inputs, control volume and then switch to the Roon app for music control.  I think there are some screenshots of the driver in the Roon forum. If you cant find them, I'm happy to take some screenshots of my system with the Roon driver. 

4. Bluesound does offer a C4 driver. Have no experience with it, never even seen what it looks like. I have been curious though since I do own a few Bluesound speakers. 

 

[elee532]

Here's a video someone made of the Roon driver interface in C4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=gTn0Cjo8kBk&feature=youtu.be

[elee532]

More screenshots:

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Control4

[Don Cohen]

6 hours ago, elee532 said:

More screenshots:

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Control4

A couple of questions on the C4 Roon Interface (this is mostly with reference to playing Podcasts, but would also apply to music):

1. Can you fast forward or reverse within anything that you're listening?  I don't see button controls, just the ones to skip to the next song.  But it looks like there's a progress bar that might hopefully enable you to move forward or backward within what is being played?
2. Does it "remember" the point at which you were listening when you then stopped?  I'll often listen to long podcasts, and when using Roon (non-Nucleus, so the Roon interface), if I pause, it will let me go directly back to where I left off.

If I listen to my own downloaded media with the C4 digital media interface, it doesn't seem to be possible to either fast forward/reverse, or remember position, and no progress bar either.

Thanks.

[Time2Jet]

Again Full Disclosure:  I am a Roon Dealer, end-user and enthusiast.  The most recent update (today I think) to the Control4 driver and integration really brings the product to an absolute luxury to have on your system.  I am awaiting @DLite's take on the update, since he's a power user.  But I am very pleased.  I think the best way to decide is to get members who are Roon subscribers to lend their feelings about and experience with the platform.  To hear it from me may be tainted with dealer bias.

Again, if anyone trials and decides to move forward, a Nucleus or Nucleus+ is required for C4 integration and they aren't inexpensive, but even the folks that have one without having a Control4 home wouldn't have it any other way... very powerful dedicated core.  So I am offering a discount on the Nucleus or Nucleus+.

Trial with a laptop or desktop at https://roonlabs.com/r/RQeEz3CN30ulNwifCuTtNg and PM me once you have.  Again, if you end up moving forward, I will discount the cost of a Nucleus to our forum members.

[elee532]

Quote

6 hours ago, time2jet said:

The most recent update (today I think) to the Control4 driver and integration really brings the product to an absolute luxury to have on your system.

 

@time2jet, can you say more about this driver update? What did it add that that you are so impressed by?

[Time2Jet]

@time2jet, can you say more about this driver update? What did it add that that you are so impressed by?

@time2jet, can you say more about this driver update? What did it add that that you are so impressed by?

More than anything, I feel they listened to us users that are also Control4 homes that have integrated. That’s not always the case with device or platform mfrs.

Just out of Beta, latest updates:

Fixed: Volume choppy volume control on Control4 OS3

Fixed: Playback commands when multiple zones are grouped

Added: HDMI binding to audio/video zone driver output

Whole point is, outside of Control4, the Roon experience is incomparable. I’m an audiophile and I not only find the need to hear the best possible sound from a track, but I also want to know everything about a track, album, record or artist. I also like to know about the songwriter. I get all of this with Roon. It’s like a diving into a music rabbit hole. This is why I stress a trial. The whole idea is that a user finds Roon irresistible and happens to also be a Control4 home. No one is going out and buying a Control4 system as a result of Roon, nor the opposite (albeit I do believe it is a literal soft matrix solution for blended audio systems). For people who fall in love with Roon AND have a Control4 home, it’s important to know that the Roon engineers work hard to give us (a very small minority of their client base) the best possible dual experience and continue to work to improve C4 integration.

I think the key is to trial it. You’re a Roon end user [mention]elee532 [/mention] , right? You’ve integrated, correct? You can share your Roon experience and then your C4/Roon integration experience. Please be as critical as possible. Share the good and bad. I love it, but that’s me. I have a fairly direct line to Roon tech... what can we do to make your experience better?


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[msgreenf]

A few months ago you were complaining the driver has had broken features for over a year but today they listen to users. Doesn't add up...

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[Time2Jet]

A few months ago you were complaining the driver has had broken features for over a year but today they listen to users. Doesn't add up...

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Well, I loved the product, but if you recall my needs were “grouping” and blending Sonos with other audio. So I brought the issues to their attention and they went to work. Voila. Not sure why it took so long, but they’ve reassured me of their commitment to all Roon subs. There was a beta fairly quickly after I called the NSM, say 45-60 days? This Covid thing has my times off. It’s like we’re in a warp.


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[Köhler Medientechnik]

I´m running  a Roon-server on a Windows VM on my NAS, using my Trinnov Altitude as a Roon endpoint. 

(Together with Tidal as a streaming service). I really like Roon because of the additional information time2jet has mentioned above. 

 

[elee532]

On 8/25/2020 at 11:03 PM, time2jet said:

Added: HDMI binding to audio/video zone driver output

 

 

What does this mean, if anything, in terms of feature/function to an end user?

[Time2Jet]

6 hours ago, elee532 said:

What does this mean, if anything, in terms of feature/function to an end user?

I haven't been home to update, I'll let you know.  I know in the previous versions there was no way to bind the hdmi.  It likely will be "audio" only passing.

[elee532]

Thanks.

What I was hoping for when I purchased the Nucleus and Roon C4 driver was to be able to browse and play my Roon library using my C4 SR260 remote. I realized too late that this wasn't possible though since my EA1 was connected to my Denon receiver via HDMI and my Nucleus was connected to the Denon via HDMI. So, once I launch the C4 Roon driver, I lose the C4 on screen display. 

The only workaround I've come up with is to run the EA1 direct to my TV. That's more work than I've had time to try, plus the cost of having to re-program my system. 

[DLite]

@time2jet, I beta-tested the driver for a few weeks in July, and I'm still using it almost every day.  Quick summary:  multi-zone playback works pretty well, even though it is not bulletproof.  Moreover, as long as you avoid grouping zones in the Roon app -- and do it only through C4 -- it's quite stable indeed.  

As you noted, the new driver is especially useful for those of us on Sonos.  I can finally access my full library, Tidal, and Qobuz, entirely from a T3 touch screen.  For that convenience, I'm willing to live with a few minor bugs, and I'm hoping they'll iron these remaining issues out in a future release.

Finally, the HDMI binding did work for me, although I only tested it once.  (I don't use the HDMI binding, because my Nucleus is connected via USB to a DAC.)

 

 

[Time2Jet]

@time2jet, I beta-tested the driver for a few weeks in July, and I'm still using it almost every day.  Quick summary:  multi-zone playback works pretty well, even though it is not bulletproof.  Moreover, as long as you avoid grouping zones in the Roon app -- and do it only through C4 -- it's quite stable indeed.  
As you noted, the new driver is especially useful for those of us on Sonos.  I can finally access my full library, Tidal, and Qobuz, entirely from a T3 touch screen.  For that convenience, I'm willing to live with a few minor bugs, and I'm hoping they'll iron these remaining issues out in a future release.
Finally, the HDMI binding did work for me, although I only tested it once.  (I don't use the HDMI binding, because my Nucleus is connected via USB to a DAC.)
 
 

I’m having an issue that I can’t put my finger on. If I start a Roon stream in the C4 app or Neeo, it plays perfectly and I can add any Sonos zone, but two things: if I then move to a video, the audio doesn’t focus away from Roon even though the source is showing as TIVo for instance. Could be a binding or the Sonos driver actually. I’m still playing around with it. And lastly, if I join a Sonos Zone, then remove it, it will stop playing everywhere until I hit play again, but if I end the stream, a previously grouped, then ungrouped, zone will start playing where I left off. Could be something in the Sonos driver. Regardless, it’s been fun listening. Sound is incredible. My whole family loves it.

The HDMI is multichannel audio only, and is perfect. I have it connected to a Denon. I can join that room with any other. The sound through Roon versus Tidal alone or Sonos is much much better with Roon.

I need to work through these few issues and it’s literally a game changer for me with a Sonos and blended system.


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[DLite]

2 hours ago, time2jet said:

I’m having an issue that I can’t put my finger on. If I start a Roon stream in the C4 app or Neeo, it plays perfectly and I can add any Sonos zone, but two things: if I then move to a video, the audio doesn’t focus away from Roon even though the source is showing as TIVo for instance. Could be a binding or the Sonos driver actually. I’m still playing around with it. And lastly, if I join a Sonos Zone, then remove it, it will stop playing everywhere until I hit play again, but if I end the stream, a previously grouped, then ungrouped, zone will start playing where I left off. Could be something in the Sonos driver. Regardless, it’s been fun listening. Sound is incredible. My whole family loves it.

The HDMI is multichannel audio only, and is perfect. I have it connected to a Denon. I can join that room with any other. The sound through Roon versus Tidal alone or Sonos is much much better with Roon.

I need to work through these few issues and it’s literally a game changer for me with a Sonos and blended system.


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Yes, the issue you note about joining and removing Sonos zones seems to be a bug in the driver. I noticed that same behavior during my beta test, and I reported it back. Hopefully they will fix it in the next version.

I can't reproduce the behavior you note when you move to a video.  For lack of a better idea, you might try rebooting your controller.  I did have a couple of situation where the Roon driver seemed to stop behaving correctly, but a reboot fixed it.

[elee532]

Wondering again about what the driver update with the addition of HDMI binding means. My Nucleus has always been connected to my Denon receiver via HDMI. So, what, if any, would be the benefit of updating the driver and using the HDMI binding option? In fact, if HDMI binding wasn't previously an option, how did my Nucleus even work since it was connected via HDMI?

One of the reasons I'm wondering if I should have my dealer install the update is that sometimes my Nucleus gets "stuck" in 2.0 channel mode. I have to use the Roon app to disable and re-enable the 5.1 setting option to get 5.1 again. Wondering if this new driver with HDMI binding might fix this.

Sorry if this is a dumb question. I'm just an end user who doesn't really understand the backend technology of C4.

Thanks!

[Time2Jet]

Wondering again about what the driver update with the addition of HDMI binding means. My Nucleus has always been connected to my Denon receiver via HDMI. So, what, if any, would be the benefit of updating the driver and using the HDMI binding option? In fact, if HDMI binding wasn't previously an option, how did my Nucleus even work since it was connected via HDMI?
One of the reasons I'm wondering if I should have my dealer install the update is that sometimes my Nucleus gets "stuck" in 2.0 channel mode. I have to use the Roon app to disable and re-enable the 5.1 setting option to get 5.1 again. Wondering if this new driver with HDMI binding might fix this.
Sorry if this is a dumb question. I'm just an end user who doesn't really understand the backend technology of C4.
Thanks!

Few things to check. Do you have the HDMI setup in the Roon desktop app? Otherwise, your just really streaming your Roon audio to the Denon zone via the network. This might/could be the issue. I don’t have any dropbacks etc. with my HDMI zone. Make sure it’s out of HDMI 1 (A?) on your Nucleus. The second HDMI out is currently a factory service port. It won’t work if it’s not active in the Roon app.

I’m sure you’ve got us setup correctly, but checking the simple stuff first is best. Also check your Nucleus firmware on the Roon app.


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[elee532]

Confirmed connection via HDMI. Version 1.7 build 555 is installed.

[Time2Jet]

3 minutes ago, elee532 said:

Confirmed connection via HDMI. Version 1.7 build 555 is installed.

There is an updated 1.7 build (610).

[elee532]

Installing now. Sounds like no point installing the updated C4 driver to get HDMI binding option?