Should Director have IP Reservation?

[Don Cohen]

My system was put in by the Dealer that I'm now working for, about a year ago.  From the very beginning the Director had a particular IP address.

I just logged into Composer Pro to check a couple of things, and discovered a different IP address for the Controller.  Everything seems to be functioning normally, I can access it with Composer Pro, through the Control4 App on my Phone, access the cameras via the Luma App, etc.  So there's no problem.

I checked in the Router, and there is no IP reservation for the Director, and there is no other device currently assigned the IP formerly used for the Director.

Is "Best Practice" here to have an IP Reservation for the Director (an EA-3 in my case), and this was just an oversight when the system was initially set up?  Or is there a reason it shouldn't be reserved?  Or does it make no difference?

Thanks!

[ekohn00]

9 minutes ago, Don Cohen said:

My system was put in by the Dealer that I'm now working for, about a year ago.  From the very beginning the Director had a particular IP address.

I just logged into Composer Pro to check a couple of things, and discovered a different IP address for the Controller.  Everything seems to be functioning normally, I can access it with Composer Pro, through the Control4 App on my Phone, access the cameras via the Luma App, etc.  So there's no problem.

I checked in the Router, and there is no IP reservation for the Director, and there is no other device currently assigned the IP formerly used for the Director.

Is "Best Practice" here to have an IP Reservation for the Director (an EA-3 in my case), and this was just an oversight when the system was initially set up?  Or is there a reason it shouldn't be reserved?  Or does it make no difference?

Thanks!

Best practice would be a static address for fixed server type devices.  Personally would do that for all of my C4 equipment.  

[Don Cohen]

6 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

Best practice would be a static address for fixed server type devices.  Personally would do that for all of my C4 equipment.  

Thanks.  That's what I figured, but being relatively new to this, wanted to make sure.

[Amr]

Yes, all devices actually should have reserved IP on the DHCP server or if you can manually enter the IP it’s the best practice, only guest network should be left for no reservation.

[Don Cohen]

Thanks - I went in and changed all Control4 devices to IP Reservation.  Most of the other controlled devices already were; it's surprising they hadn't done this with the EA-1 and EA-3, but as I said it might have been an innocent oversight.  But I'm good to go now.

[ekohn00]

18 hours ago, Amr said:

Yes, all devices actually should have reserved IP on the DNS server or if you can manually enter the IP it’s the best practice, only guest network should be left for no reservation.

You don't reserve IP addresses on a DNS server, think you probably made a simple typo....DHCP server dishes out the address.

[ekohn00]

18 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Thanks - I went in and changed all Control4 devices to IP Reservation.  Most of the other controlled devices already were; it's surprising they hadn't done this with the EA-1 and EA-3, but as I said it might have been an innocent oversight.  But I'm good to go now.

Can't tell from the details listed, but it's also possible they didn't reserver the address but just gave a static out. Especially since you said the "Director had a particular IP address"

Basic difference....  the DHCP server works on address ranges. You can force them to give specific MAC address (device) a specific IP address, this is a reservation. The device still does a DHCP request.

Might be a lot easier to just have a range on the DCHP for daily use, and then another range out side the server that is used by devices (static addresses). ie 192.168.1.to 192.168.1.50 could be static, and 192.168.1.51 to 192.168.1.100 could be used by the DHCP server for dynamic requests.

[Don Cohen]

1 hour ago, ekohn00 said:

Can't tell from the details listed, but it's also possible they didn't reserver the address but just gave a static out. Especially since you said the "Director had a particular IP address"

Basic difference....  the DHCP server works on address ranges. You can force them to give specific MAC address (device) a specific IP address, this is a reservation. The device still does a DHCP request.

Might be a lot easier to just have a range on the DCHP for daily use, and then another range out side the server that is used by devices (static addresses). ie 192.168.1.to 192.168.1.50 could be static, and 192.168.1.51 to 192.168.1.100 could be used by the DHCP server for dynamic requests.

Understood (I think).

What got my attention is that the IP for the director was always shown as xxx.xxx.xxx.149 but recently changed to xxx.xxx.xxx.173.  If I'm understanding you correctly, a particular IP can be forced through either IP Reservation on the Router (DHCP server) or Static IP (on the device itself?), but since the Director IP did in fact change, then neither of these had been done?

[Cyknight]

Correct, neither would be in place - it's advisable to at least set the main controller on reservation or static, it tends to make the app connect a bit faster, and if not done and a phone/app hasn't connected in a long time it can cause the app to be unable to connect (rare, must be a very extended time).

 

Is it REQUIRED - no, but a small thing to do to avoid potential delays.

[Amr]

4 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

You don't reserve IP addresses on a DNS server, think you probably made a simple typo....DHCP server dishes out the address.

Yep corrected

[Amr]

2 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Understood (I think).

What got my attention is that the IP for the director was always shown as xxx.xxx.xxx.149 but recently changed to xxx.xxx.xxx.173.  If I'm understanding you correctly, a particular IP can be forced through either IP Reservation on the Router (DHCP server) or Static IP (on the device itself?), but since the Director IP did in fact change, then neither of these had been done?

You can specify manual IP assignment for all C4 gears, it’s much better, you make a reservation for gear that doesn’t allow the feature e.g. Roku, Echo’s, lamps, etc

[JSTRONG]

I prefer reservations so the devices can be organized, sorted and tracked in the router. 
 

[lippavisual]

Your controller running director should be set statically.  I’d also advise any other C4 equipment to be static as well.

This way if your network crashes, router dies, whatever, your system will still chug along happily and keep working.

There have been many complaints about systems slowing to a crawl or just stop working when ISP services go down.  Mostly do to using ISP provided gear or keeping equipment on DHCP and router craps out.

Doing the above solves the problem.

 

 

[JSTRONG]

Just to clarify. If your network crashes and your router and switches are down, you will lose Everything communicating over your network regardless if you have static or dhcp

[Cyknight]

28 minutes ago, JSTRONG said:

Just to clarify. If your network crashes and your router and switches are down, you will lose Everything communicating over your network regardless if you have static or dhcp

Not ENTIRELY true. A router unable to hand out IP addresses, or switches not passing through IP requests (possibly due to internal DHCP server being on) will NOT take your system down if all devices are on a 'true' static IP

 

Quote

I prefer reservations so the devices can be organized, sorted and tracked in the router. 

A number of the better routers are able to see static IPs as well, that said reservation allows doing it remotely as well.

 

There's no true right or wrong answer for either method, they both have their advantages.

A lot of people find reservations easier to do, though to me that isn't a 'reason' but an excuse

Within an average C4 system, both are equal overall as far as function is concerned

[zaphod]

3 hours ago, JSTRONG said:

I prefer reservations so the devices can be organized, sorted and tracked in the router. 
 

I completely agree with this.  It is WAY easier to be able to do all of this on a router on your PC at a desk rather than going to every device and try to remember how to set a static IP on Rokus, Xboxes, etc.

[JSTRONG]

Cy. Surely you agree that if a ea5 is connected to the same crashed or offline network switch as the triad matrix audio and the lutron repeater and the tv and the video matrix that none of that communication  can occur between them?

 

[BraydonH]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:32 AM, ekohn00 said:

Best practice would be a static address for fixed server type devices.  Personally would do that for all of my C4 equipment.  

I actually think static IPs can cause alot of issues over time as gear gets swapped out and routers change.

DHCP reservation all the way in my opinion. I have basically never used a static IP in my life. DHCP reservations are much easier and very good from my experience.

Also make sure your controllers DNS is manually set to 8.8.8.8 for best performance.

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, JSTRONG said:

Cy. Surely you agree that if a ea5 is connected to the same crashed or offline network switch as the triad matrix audio and the lutron repeater and the tv and the video matrix that none of that communication  can occur between them?

 

No I don't - it depends on what is failing on the switch. If it's completely shot or powered off - sure.

BUT IF ALL THE DEVICES ARE ON THE SAME SWITCH AND THE ROUTER GOES DOWN all those true static IP devices will happily continue to work indefinitely.

If a LAN loop causes the switch to go 'down' - static devices continue to work, albeit delayed in the loop, reserved often will not, or will fail once the lease time is up at least.

[msgreenf]

IMHO DHCP res + static. No downside.

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, BraydonH said:

I actually think static IPs can cause alot of issues over time as gear gets swapped out and routers change.

DHCP reservation all the way in my opinion. I have basically never used a static IP in my life. DHCP reservations are much easier and very good from my experience.

Also make sure your controllers DNS is manually set to 8.8.8.8 for best performance.

Oh? Tell that to several of my clients that decided to 'upgrade' their internet speed during this time, causing two routers on the same network as they were guided by ISPs and their internet went bonkers...but could continue to control their ( panelized) lights.

 

Quote

Also make sure your controllers DNS is manually set to 8.8.8.8 for best performance.

I'm sorry, you do all your reservations in the router, but can't be bothered to set the router to simply forward 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.4.4 as the DNS instead of using proxy?

 

Like I already said, there's pros and cons to both options, in the end either one is fine. I'm NOT telling you that you should do one or the other - just that one is not BETTER than the other (of course both beat just leaving it on 'plain' dhcp)

[Cyknight]

2 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

IMHO DHCP res + static. No downside.

Arguable point - except that you're doing double the work.

[Cyknight]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:21 AM, Don Cohen said:

Is "Best Practice" here to have an IP Reservation for the Director (an EA-3 in my case), and this was just an oversight when the system was initially set up?  Or is there a reason it shouldn't be reserved?  Or does it make no difference?

 

Just to get back to OP - there is no official 'best practice' to make the controller static/reserved as stated by C4 at this point AFAIK. That said, doing one or the other is commonly considered the 'better' way over leaving it to get different addresses over time (though a lot of routers these days will automatically 'soft reserve' and IP to a device provided it's online when the router starts up).

There certainly is no reason NOT to reserve it and/or set it to a static IP (well, assuming you can do so without making errors/typos).

 

To me the biggest argument for doing reservations, and using routers that let you do this without having to find/copy mac addresses etc (Pakedge, Araknis and several others) is that it's DUMMY proof over static settings and/or manually typing in reservations. Fact is that a lot of C4 dealers/programmers out there (not on here) are NOT 'network literate' at all....so the EASY way (provided there are no downsides, in this case there aren't any major ones) is the ADVISABLE way.

[msgreenf]

Arguable point - except that you're doing double the work.

Don't do it for everything. But critical gear

[JSTRONG]

1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

No I don't - it depends on what is failing on the switch. If it's completely shot or powered off - sure.

BUT IF ALL THE DEVICES ARE ON THE SAME SWITCH AND THE ROUTER GOES DOWN all those true static IP devices will happily continue to work indefinitely.

If a LAN loop causes the switch to go 'down' - static devices continue to work, albeit delayed in the loop, reserved often will not, or will fail once the lease time is up at least.

Ok I think we agree. I was responding to an offline switch. A crashed network (per the other message), in my opinion is one that is down and not online or functional any longer.