Uh-Wise Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I'm finishing up a new install. There's a long hallway and we have 2 switches wired to be turned on on 3 points of the hallway. Point A has the 2 switches. Point B (middle) has 2 Auxiliary Keypads. Point C (end) has another 2 Auxiliary Keypads. We have done 4-way before, but this time, something weird happens. When I connect the switches from point A to point B's auxiliary keypads, everything works fine. The MOMENT the (completely disconnected) traveler wire from point B to point C TOUCHES the yellow connection (where first traveller connects to the KA) the switch turns on. If I press any bottom button, the load turns off until I let go. Then it turns back on. This happens independently of which KA we connect. Point A to B has about 15m. Point A to C has about 10m. The wires were pulled out and new ones pulled in. Behavior continues. Everything is 120V. Hot, neutral, and ground present in all wallboxes. Any insight is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Uh-Wise said: Everything is 120V. Hot, neutral, and ground present in all wallboxes. So is it wired with 14/2 or 14/3? line/load in the same box or are you having to carry line to load? possible another switch you didn’t take out ? (5-way) And why does this hallway need two different 4-way switches? Seems nuisance to me to have to turn on two switches when I wanna walk down a hall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh-Wise Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 12 hours ago, knowitall said: So is it wired with 14/2 or 14/3? line/load in the same box or are you having to carry line to load? possible another switch you didn’t take out ? (5-way) And why does this hallway need two different 4-way switches? Seems nuisance to me to have to turn on two switches when I wanna walk down a hall... Electrician made a mess with wiring and codes aren't enforced. Each box has their own individual L/N/G. I don't know the exact path the individual wires take. We asked for the actual loads to be in box A, but originally got wired to box C. They relocated them to box A, but they do travel from C to A. Point A is well within the Zigbee radius. There's no ZAP beyond point C and the hallway's geometry is too much of a jump to be reliable. No other switches. If I connect the switches in box A, they work. If I add KAs in box B, they work. When I try to connect KAs in box C, they won't turn off. One is the actual hallway's indirect lighting and the other is a garden behind glass walls that goes aaaall the way along the hallway. Depending on the "vibe" he wants a button for each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Uh-Wise said: codes aren't enforced. Welp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Can you draw out what wires are present in each box? And how they’re connected to each switch? You also never answered the question about it being 14/2 or 14/3. I’m not an electrician, but it sounds to me like you’re introducing power at two different spots on the circuit. What part of the world are you in? Why wouldn’t you call the electrician back? You said the wires were replaced - why not replace them the right way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh-Wise Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 14 hours ago, knowitall said: Welp I mean, the electrician isn't cooperating, I'm trying to figure out the problem to fix it. Maybe it's induced voltage. Maybe it's floating grounds or whatever. Just looking for possible reasons to fix it. I'm not gonna cross my arms and not do anything because sparky won't admit something is wrong with his work, and it would help immensely if I could diagnose it to tell them what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh-Wise Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 All wires are individual. 12AWG. Travellers 14AWG. All going through Poliflex ducts in concrete. Box 1: Has its own Line, Neutral and Ground. Receives load wires for both loads A and B even though the actual load wires are in Box 3. Travellers 1 and 2 start here connected to Yellow on the switches.. Box 2: Has its own Line (not used), Neutral, and Ground. Load wires for both loads A and B pass through here. Travelers 1 and 2 connected to their KA's. They work fine. As soon as the last segment of T1 and T2 TOUCH the connection on the first KA (Box 2 Yellow) the load turns on. Even if it's disconnected in Box 3. Box 3: Has its own Line (not used), Neutral, and Ground. Load wires for both loads A and B arrive here and are connected to their respective (real) loads. I believe the lamp's neutral also connect in parallel here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 switches need to be connected to the load. You don’t know what you’re doing and neither does the electrician. Stop before you hurt yourself or someone else. where on earth are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Solution: since you have power at each box put switches/dimmers in the box and let them control lights. Get 4 config KP’s put the two button on and bind them in composer. That’ll beef up your zigbee too. you’re welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 4:32 PM, Uh-Wise said: . I don't know the exact path the individual wires take. On 7/12/2020 at 10:38 PM, Uh-Wise said: The wires were pulled out and new ones pulled in. Behavior continues. Uhh that contradicts itself. If new ones were pulled, how can you not know the path of the wires? My guess? Those neutrals in the three boxes are NOT jumpered but going to the panel, messing it up there. My solution? Put the switches at the 3rd box, aux in the others, use the power feed in box 3 for power and use the 4 conductors to pass through the 'yellow' AND the neutral back to the AUX. Better solution? Get rid of two of the two gang boxes, replace them with singles and but in ONE keypad in each locations with as many buttons as desired. Depends on ability to do so of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh-Wise Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 9 hours ago, Cyknight said: Uhh that contradicts itself. If new ones were pulled, how can you not know the path of the wires? My guess? Those neutrals in the three boxes are NOT jumpered but going to the panel, messing it up there. My solution? Put the switches at the 3rd box, aux in the others, use the power feed in box 3 for power and use the 4 conductors to pass through the 'yellow' AND the neutral back to the AUX. Better solution? Get rid of two of the two gang boxes, replace them with singles and but in ONE keypad in each locations with as many buttons as desired. Depends on ability to do so of course. Contradiction: "Hey, the second I touch this wire, even unplugged, it activates the switch. Something is wrong with it." Electrician offered to replace them and they did. I didn't witness the changing of the wires. We didn't pull them. I don''t have the exact route the wires take, if they share a section of the way with other wires, or if they coincide in a junction box. Also, I don't how or where the neutral comes from. I have the exact same suspicion you presented. This post was to get insight from others who may have had experience with KA issues and may be able to diagnose by ear so we can fix it (grounding something, ferrite, jumping stuff...) 3rd Box is too far from the last Zigbee node. Even the 2nd Box is a bit too far, and there are 2 concrete walls between box 1 and 2, and 3 walls between 2 and 3. (The hallway branches into smaller ones). I wanted to use keypads but the client was/is penny-pinching and insisted he just wanted 2 buttons for the 2 important points of the hallway. The original design had a secondary controller for media and as a ZAP in a room close by. I understand all y'alls frustrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I still suspect your problem is that the aux are not running on the same neutral - so unless you can pull a neutral through all the boxes.... So unless you can get that done, the answer is 'Mr/Mrs client we CANNOT do this under the budget available due to wiring issues so we have to go THIS way' May not be the answer they like (or you for that matter) and yes we understand that - but sometimes you do just have to bite the bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.