RGBW Lighting - DMX

[Autosean]

Hi Guys

I need some advice in regards to connecting light strips up to C4. I've invested in a mean well 600 W power supply https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DEDB2U2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_7LZmFb3DBS8TB. along with a 32 channel DMX controller. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075FHJM35/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_LNZmFbP2QTHSB. I would like to use the Domaudeo Advanced DMX drivers https://www.blackwiredesigns.com/store/advanced-dmx-for-control4/ but I need to confirm if the engineering solution engine is required or recommended?

 

The initial deployment will be 2 lengths of 3M 50/50 in series and one 3M. I do plan to expand in the future, but in the short term like to understand if I can deploy the solution without the engineering solution engine.

 

If not recommendations would be great.

 

Thanks

 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

 

[Pounce]

@jackstone ^^

[Köhler Medientechnik]

4 hours ago, Autosean said:

but I need to confirm if the engineering solution engine is required or recommended?

 

For that setup, you need to add a DMX Gateway.
The 32 channel controller is just a dumb device translating DMX commands it receives to different voltage levels on it´s outputs to drive the stripes connected to it. So you need a device that sends the DMX commands to the 32 channel controller. This device could be the Engeneering solution device. I´m using this device for myself, but not in a C4-setup, so i can´t comment on the question if it´s a good solution with using C4.

 

[Autosean]

So I can't use the EA3 to generate the signals via RS232? I hava a XLR to 3.5mm Cable?



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[Köhler Medientechnik]

33 minutes ago, Autosean said:

So I can't use the EA3 to generate the signals via RS232?

I´m still new to Control4, but i´d be very surprised if the EA3 could generate DMX signals on it´s RS232. (if i´m wrong, please one of the experts step in)
Usually, the control unit communicates via RS232 or LAN (depending on the gateway) with the DMX gateway and the gateway generates the corresponding DMX signals and sends it to the connected DMX devices.

The Domaudeo you linked above says in it´s description:
"The Domaudeo Low Voltage/LED Control DMX Driver provides an affordable solution for low-voltage LED or RGB(W) integration with Control4 using the Engineering Solutions DMX RS232 engine. "

The Engenieering Solutions DMX RS232 engine is a DMX gateway. So you need that piece of hardware in addition.

[lippavisual]

In order to use those drivers, you need the ES box.  C4 sends 232 commands to this box, then the box sends DMX data to the lights.

Fantastic drivers and hardware.  Ive been running it in my own home for about 5 years now and keep adding more and more LV lighting.

[Autosean]

23 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

In order to use those drivers, you need the ES box.  C4 sends 232 commands to this box, then the box sends DMX data to the lights.

Fantastic drivers and hardware.  Ive been running it in my own home for about 5 years now and keep adding more and more LV lighting.

Thanks lippavisual..    I'm from the Boston area too.  What are your thoughts on the Shelly with  Domaudeo Shelly driver?

[lippavisual]

Never used it, so no opinion.  Well, other than it looks to be used for smaller projects and really isn't an all-in-one solution.

The projects I work on, between customers and my own home, are much larger spectrum.  So I use the products that make this a little more manageable like lighting panels (or similar like structured wiring panels), dumb 30 channel decoders (link: https://www.holidaycoro.com/30-Channel-DMX-Controller-for-RGB-Lights-12v-DC-p/43.htm) and Meanwell power supplies and of course the DMX Engine.  This way, I hook up a light right to the decoder using 18/4 or similar cable and it controls and powers the lights in one.

[zaphod]

It sounds like your needs are fairly simple for now.  The Shelly or other Wifi options (Flux aka MagicHome) paired with the correct drivers are cheaper and easier to implement than DMX but won't be as scalable.  My understanding is that DMX was developed for theatrical lighting so it can handle a lot more complex lighting.  But the simpler options may be more suitable for a typical residence.  I have four different zones of RGB light strips in my kitchen under cabinets or toe plates and I use the Flux Wifi controllers with a bit of a hacked together driver to control.  Eventually I will buy the driver for these controllers.

These are the Flux/Magic Home controllers:  https://www.amazon.ca/Controller-Remote-Lights-Android-Support/dp/B07TKJB2Z7/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=wifi+light+strip+controller&qid=1597255558&sr=8-6.  They are pretty cheap if you want to buy a controller to play around with and control with your phone for now.

[Autosean]

Thanks All, much appreciated..

 

[Pounce]

5 hours ago, zaphod said:

It sounds like your needs are fairly simple for now.  The Shelly or other Wifi options (Flux aka MagicHome) paired with the correct drivers are cheaper and easier to implement than DMX but won't be as scalable.  My understanding is that DMX was developed for theatrical lighting so it can handle a lot more complex lighting.  But the simpler options may be more suitable for a typical residence.  I have four different zones of RGB light strips in my kitchen under cabinets or toe plates and I use the Flux Wifi controllers with a bit of a hacked together driver to control.  Eventually I will buy the driver for these controllers.

These are the Flux/Magic Home controllers:  https://www.amazon.ca/Controller-Remote-Lights-Android-Support/dp/B07TKJB2Z7/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=wifi+light+strip+controller&qid=1597255558&sr=8-6.  They are pretty cheap if you want to buy a controller to play around with and control with your phone for now.

I think the one you linked is only RGB and not RGBW (if that's a concern)

[zaphod]

2 hours ago, Pounce said:

I think the one you linked is only RGB and not RGBW (if that's a concern)

True, there are also RGBW versions available.

[Autosean]

Thank you all for the support and expertise. I think I'm going to bail on DMX for now and head towards Shelly. I like the idea of the other Shelly offerings and will give them a shot.

You all know how it is, I look at all the great features different avenues can provide but in reality only use a few.

Thanks again.

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[zaphod]

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.

[Dr Noisewater]

I am currently using the Domaudeos Dmx driver along with the engineering solutions box. I used RGBWW strips so that I could have a warm white and also a separate 6000k white all above 90 +/- CRI.  With the DMX control, you can really dial it in.  I did all the wiring and installation and learned a ton along the way. Each zone gets a Dmx decoder, Meanwell 24v power supply, and a run of 18/6 out to the strips. Sometimes you have to run a few separate 18/6 runs to eliminate voltage drop if your going out a ways.  All of it works awesome in C4. I have seperate color sliders for each zone/room now. If you have any questions I would be more then happy to help where I can. 

 

[Wayne]

Any advise from people with LED strip lighting or DMX would be appreciated

I busy with the lighting of new build as we speak and trying to decide on LED strip lighting or DMX in certain areas with C4 integration but dont know enough about DMX or even the differences between this for a large residential house.

Any tips, advice or even reading material suggestions appreciated

[lippavisual]

16 hours ago, Dr Noisewater said:

I am currently using the Domaudeos Dmx driver along with the engineering solutions box. I used RGBWW strips so that I could have a warm white and also a separate 6000k white all above 90 +/- CRI.  With the DMX control, you can really dial it in.  I did all the wiring and installation and learned a ton along the way. Each zone gets a Dmx decoder, Meanwell 24v power supply, and a run of 18/6 out to the strips. Sometimes you have to run a few separate 18/6 runs to eliminate voltage drop if your going out a ways.  All of it works awesome in C4. I have seperate color sliders for each zone/room now. If you have any questions I would be more then happy to help where I can. 

 

Glad you got this working the way you wanted. 

[lippavisual]

DMX is really simple.  But I’d suggest to do some light reading, especially involving residential based installations.  A lot of the info you will find will be for stage/performance lighting.

Basically, the DMX engine can run all of the lighting in the home, if using low voltage fixtures, dumb led strips/bars, etc.

Ive converted half of my home to all low voltage lighting.  Use 24V for your main lighting features and then 12v for niche/accent lighting.

[zaphod]

@Dr Noisewater - Can you provide a link to the strips that you used?

[Cyknight]

Not sure I agree DMX is 'simple'.

It's all 'logical' once you have the information, but there's a fair bit of information.

That said it starts at the wiring.

Biggest advice, run a wire for each LED strip you're running, don't string them together at the location (two shelves in a closet isn't an issue, but looping too many through can be).

Long strips should be broken up in parts if possible, and if that can't be done, ensure you have at lease a wire to either end of the strip.

 

The 'hardest' part is managing the wattage/load across transformers, decoders and LED strips as each has their limits in their own way, but by doing the suggest wiring above, at least you'll have everything in place to manage at all.

From there, you/your electrician/your dealer may need to dig into the literature some more.

Couple of key notes:

-One engine generally allows 512 addresses, but that doesn't equate to 512 fixtures or strips or even loads. RGB loads take up 3 addresses, RGBW 4 etc, and at the same time multiple decoders can be on the same address, so it's just not as simple as saying "I have 12 decoders, so I only use 12 addresses - or even 12x4 addresses".

-To complicate it more there are multi 'zone' decoders that are built to allow connecting multiple RGB(W) strips to a single decoder. These take up more addresses but require less space in the physical sense. Which is nice, but can mess with transformer management.

-Transformers are always rate at max wattage - you should not exceed 80% of the stated wattage in calculating the wattage need.

-Take your time figuring out what encoders (types of encoders) and transformer(s) you'll need. You may need several decoders (and transformers) to control and power a single 'light' simply to ensure you do not exceed the transformer rating, the max lenght LED strips will work with (they can start fading towards the end, and especially in RGB this can be noticeable as different colors fade differently, so while orange is clearly a pumpkin orange at the start, it can look more yellow towards the end).

[zaphod]

I have only worked with 12V RGB(WW) strips.  I would think that 24V strips would have less dimming over a longer strip, is that true?  The thought being that 12V requires twice the current for the same power.

[Köhler Medientechnik]

2 minutes ago, zaphod said:

I have only worked with 12V RGB(WW) strips.  I would think that 24V strips would have less dimming over a longer strip, is that true?  The thought being that 12V requires twice the current for the same power.

Yep. I always use 24V stripes. 12V/5V only for special applications (pixel stripes).

[zaphod]

I tried a big job several years ago where I ran RGB strips along my perimeter pool fencing - this was probably about 40M in total.  This didn't work out so well as the joins between segments, and I cut 5m strips into small pieces, didn't last due to corrosion from moisture, etc.  The second issue is that the strips have become extremely yellow and bubbled due to UV exposure.  I used the cheaper generic 12V strips, so I don't know if high quality strips would have fared better.

Other strips that I have that are along the side of my deck and along my pool cabana did much better but these were placed perpendicular to the ground, facing up.  The ones on the pool fence were placed on the top of the fence facing up so they get full exposure to the harsh Canadian weather.

[Cyknight]

12 minutes ago, zaphod said:

I have only worked with 12V RGB(WW) strips.  I would think that 24V strips would have less dimming over a longer strip, is that true?  The thought being that 12V requires twice the current for the same power.

Yes - ah see it was already answered

[Cyknight]

1 minute ago, zaphod said:

I tried a big job several years ago where I ran RGB strips along my perimeter pool fencing - this was probably about 40M in total.  This didn't work out so well as the joins between segments, and I cut 5m strips into small pieces, didn't last due to corrosion from moisture, etc.  The second issue is that the strips have become extremely yellow and bubbled due to UV exposure.  I used the cheaper generic 12V strips, so I don't know if high quality strips would have fared better.

Other strips that I have that are along the side of my deck and along my pool cabana did much better but these were placed perpendicular to the ground, facing up.  The ones on the pool fence were placed on the top of the fence facing up so they get full exposure to the harsh Canadian weather.

Silicone encased strips I'm guessing? Or actual extrusions?

The LEDs themselves arent usually affected by UV lighting, but the silicone certainly can be, so can the plastic of a dispersion extrusion.

Better quality product will generally have a higher grade silicon that doesn't yellow as fast, but it's best for that sort of application to use an extrusion that is water tight instaead of silicone strips, and have either replaceable diffusers, or better yet plexi glass or even better actual glass ones.

Watertight extrusion with replaceable diffuser is the lower cost option by far, just make sure you buy replacements on install, as you can't be sure the same size is available 5 years later (some of the better brands have had them that long and more though)