Luxul Network Woes

[Dr Noisewater]

My intentions with this post is to let others know about the annoying and costly experiences I/we have had using an all Luxul Network along with Control4. 

   Caveat: I did search the forum and Reddit before this post but I could not reach a conclusive opinion. 

 

I will lead with my questions first, then explain why below.

 

1. What brand of Networking Equipment would provide a more reliable system? Control4 defaults to Pakedge and Araknis. I want fast wifi and reliability above cost. I don't want to throw a dart at the wall and hope for the best. 

2. What brand uses the latest and the greatest tech providing the fastest Access point speeds?

3. What brands do you all relay on?

 

Background:

About 2 years ago I began working with my original dealer to map out the C4 installation and components for the new home. When networking equipment was discussed, I was told to go with Luxul brand Equipment. So we ordered the following pieces,

(1) - Epic 5 Router - ABR5000

(1) - Managed Switch - AMS-4424p - 24 port POE

(1) - Managed Switch - AMS-2624p - 24 port POE

(1) - Dumb Switch - AGS- 1024 - 24 port

(1) - Access Point Controller - XWC-1000

(5) - Access Points - XAP-1510 

 

Problem 1 - I am having to reboot the Ea5 controller at least 2 times a week. Mostly because the Ios app doesn't connect or it takes a few minutes to finally log in. Other times Ill press some of the icons in Navigator and they wont respond. Its to the point that the fun is being removed from the system. 

Problem 2 - One of the 3 Touch panels has been freezing up and/or losing its Ip address at random. We have restored it to its original state and re-imaged it. Control4 tech support added extended logging to see whats happening at the time of failure. The first report came back yesterday with the following information. (Keep in mind, the other 2 TS have no issues at all.)

         "The whole log shows director being spammed with communication to/from the cameras. Starting at 14:57 is when we start to see the TS check in and then a minute later it is unable to check in. I recommend       isolating the IP cameras on their own Vlans to limit the amount of multicast traffic being sent out to your LAN."

Problem 3 - Wifi speeds are always low (in my opinion.) With a 1 gig cable modem, no matter where I am in relation to the AP's,  I see 50-60mbps on the 2ghz network. If I do a reboot of the modem and network equip I will get around 80-90mbps for the first few minutes, then it degrades. 

Problem 4 - I have plenty of weird quarks that happen from time to time, almost weekly at this point. This morning my motion sensor picked up the pedestrian gate swinging open in the wind. Turns out the magnetic lock unlocked without warning. It shows up in Navigator with the unlock symbol just like you entered the code and unlocked it. I dont know if its really a network issue or not but I wouldnt be surprised. Ill find out later on this one.  

 

 

[South Africa C4 user]

I don’t think Luxul is the problem.  There are people on this forum who love Luxul and others who hate Luxul but you will find the same love / hate relationship for all decent brands.  I have Luxul at my holiday home and it has been rock solid.

A good dealer should be able to troubleshoot and isolate your issues fairly easily!

[msgreenf]

How big is the house? Was the AP layout properly done via site surveys?

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Köhler Medientechnik]

Why do you think it´s a general problem with the brand?  If there are issues with a network, replacing the equipment with another brand would be very, very low in the list.

Networking is not trivial to setup and a lot of components need to work with each other.
There are lots of things that can cause issues: misconfigured switches, misconfigured endpoints, badly behaving endpoints, for wifi often (mostly) the endpoint is the problem, not the AP, cable issues, etc.

You said "i began working with my original dealer" - has that changed? Who did setup the network?

[C4 User]

I will start with I am no expert and nothing I say should be read to disagree with the advice above, as I generally agree with all of it. The part of I do not know and therefore may not agree with in the above is the maximum speed you should expect with your network, mainly your firewall and WAP throughputs. Keeping in mind your firewall throughput needs to be able to manage packet inspection at the 1gig throughput (and most do not) and your WAP’s need to be able to feed all devices at the device rated speed (and I will not say most, but I will say all do not).

If I was you, I would confirm your firewall can handle the throughput speed you are looking for keeping in mind you are looking for the secure (or packet inspection level) throughput.

I would then confirm your WAPs are current generation and able to communicate with each wireless device (at the device rated speed) without defaulting to the lowest device speed. This is critical because many IoT devices are 2.4 with slow communication throughputs and older generation WAPs will pull your entire network down. The more advanced WAPs also allow you to select between (Default 2.4 or Default 5 or Prefer 2.4 or Prefer 5) while using the same SSID. Many on this forum will tell you to use different SSID. I say get a robust wireless network and let it manage which protocols the devices choose as there may be spots throughout your house were a 5g capable device can benefit from 5g and other spots where it is best on 2.4.

In terms of brands, I use SonicWall. And when I have a network issue I do not call my C4 dealer, I call the SonicWall certified tech and they tell me exactly what is not right on my network and they are almost always able to address the issues by adding protocol level rules to the firewall. Over the years I found that certain C4 drivers caused issues and was able to show my dealer exactly what was happening at the network level, or rogue devices were flooding my network we either fixed the issue or removed the device, ect. Some devices that caused issues and needed fine tuning were Sonos, Hue Bridge, my office IP phone, LIFX. None of these devices took my network down, but they caused weird issues the slowed the network or required reboots and such. I honestly have not had any significant network issues for a few years, but 10 years ago they were frequent and I was alway able to give my C4 dealer a report that showed the culprit device and protocol that was causing the network problem which allowed us to easily address any issue.

Irregardless of brand, I would simply make sure my network firewall has the ability to fully analyze and fine tune my network. If it does, you should be able to get service from a brand certified engineer to quickly identify and fix any issue you have. 

[C4CA]

I have luxul with 1gig speed along with 5 of there WAPs current speed is 700-800 mbs on 5g.

That being said I did have a similar issue months ago and had to disable the communication agent do a reboot and all has been fine. It was very frustrating and went back and forth with tech support for over a week. I think there might be an article about this on dealer forum. 

[Dr Noisewater]

This morning I disconnected all the network equipment and devices. I used a Cat7 cable from my Laptop and into port 1 of the Epic 5 router, that was all. Speedtest.net and Atlanticbroadband.com (ISP) showed 109mbps down and 41mbps up on average. I rebooted everything but it didnt make much of a difference, same speeds essentially. For fun, I hooked up an old Netgear N600 router which is about 7 years old. This router was old tech and very limited for a 1 gig modem but it pulled 410mbps consistently, I was shocked. Next, I did a factory reset on the Epic 5 Router,  ran the speed tests again, nothing improved. Still hovering around 110-130mbps. I would assume something is up with the router, maybe its cooked, I dont know.

 

 

@msgreenf - The home is 4300ft - I did not have a site survey when placing the Access Points.  I can see the value in that not but only after I get the basics corrected. 

@Köhler Medientechnik  - Points taken, I had the first dealer do the layout and my subs installed according to their plans while building the home. 

@C4 User  - Thanks for your info. I am going to look into Sonicwall to see if they have a residential solution. Regardless, having someone with the ability to analyze the network when bug hunting seems like a much better process then what I am doing. 

@C4CA  - What Luxul equipment are you running? Do you use the Epic 5 router and the 1510 access points? Were you working with Luxul tech support to solve your issue? 

[msgreenf]

I would contact Luxel support - this is not normal.  But with that said, clearly if you can't get better speed wired - you aren't going to get better speed wireless.  you are headed in the right direction - get the router flying - then see what happens with the wifi

[C4CA]

Yes I have the epic 5 and both 1510 and 1610.

 

u contacted Control4 tech support there aware it’s an ongoing issue with luxul and communication agent.

[C4 User]

2 hours ago, Dr Noisewater said:

This morning I disconnected all the network equipment and devices. I used a Cat7 cable from my Laptop and into port 1 of the Epic 5 router, that was all. Speedtest.net and Atlanticbroadband.com (ISP) showed 109mbps down and 41mbps up on average. I rebooted everything but it didnt make much of a difference, same speeds essentially. For fun, I hooked up an old Netgear N600 router which is about 7 years old. This router was old tech and very limited for a 1 gig modem but it pulled 410mbps consistently, I was shocked. Next, I did a factory reset on the Epic 5 Router,  ran the speed tests again, nothing improved. Still hovering around 110-130mbps. I would assume something is up with the router, maybe its cooked, I dont know.

 

 

@msgreenf - The home is 4300ft - I did not have a site survey when placing the Access Points.  I can see the value in that not but only after I get the basics corrected. 

@Köhler Medientechnik  - Points taken, I had the first dealer do the layout and my subs installed according to their plans while building the home. 

@C4 User  - Thanks for your info. I am going to look into Sonicwall to see if they have a residential solution. Regardless, having someone with the ability to analyze the network when bug hunting seems like a much better process then what I am doing. 

@C4CA  - What Luxul equipment are you running? Do you use the Epic 5 router and the 1510 access points? Were you working with Luxul tech support to solve your issue? 

@Dr Noisewater if you decide to go with the SonicWall, for the past 5 years of so I had the TZ500 - its a little slow at full security monitoring (packet monitoring). I just upgraded to the new TX670 - which has a throughput of close to 1gig at full security monitoring and content filtering. Good luck! 

[lippavisual]

The firewall is blocking throughput out to the internet.  Look at the firewall rules.

Luxul is what it is.  I wouldn’t/don’t install it, but surely there is something to be fixed with it.

[Ak350]

Hello guys, I am new to the forum. I recently had new network placed with epic 5 luxul router and 4 access points (2x 1610 and 2x 1510). I also have gbit internet. Wired, I am maxing speed near 980. Wifi speeds have been slow between 400-500 on 5g band if I'm standing next to the 1610. The 1510 maxes at 280 on 5g band. When searching my problem, this thread appeared and it seems some of you had similar issues. I saw the solution maybe some communication agent. If someone can please help, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Cyknight]

Ehm.

I'm thinking you need to google REAL LIFE WIFI speeds.

So yeah, the normal range of ACTUAL WiFi speeds on 5Ghz AC is between 100-200 on most consumer products. Most better WiFi APs or routers (some consumer as well, mainly commercial grade) may show 400-600 in close non obstructed proximity with a handful of them going close to 700 in ideal setups. Overall on 5Ghz AC with good signal you can expect 150-400 from better equipment.

I'd say you're not doing too bad at all.

[Ak350]

Reply above said they get around 700.

[tekki70]

ok so we sell  mainly araknis, full setups, but we played around with luxul we tried the 5000 router, managed and unmanged switches, 1000 controller and 1510 waps. i can say that i do like the waps with the controller and overall liked the gear after getting it setup properly, however i did have some troubles with it and had to reach out to a more network savvy friend colleague .i had a quite a few problems with luxul routers not opening ports, and tech support sucked at helping, which caused us to stop selling luxul, we still use the waps setup because the handoff is better than araknis.

here is the issue with a lot of DEALERS, luxul has quite a few settings that most dealers don't know about, or how to set them up properly, most dealers are av guys trying to do networks and the luxul components are just not plug and play. or drop it and go. Luxul does require some more network knowledge then other brands but it is solid gear.

my suggestion is find yourself a real networking guy to help you setup your system, do a site survey and move your waps to the proper locations needed for your home. 

[Ak350]

I appreciate it.

[Cyknight]

16 hours ago, Ak350 said:

Reply above said they get around 700.

One reply, sure. Exceptions always exist -  I still say that if you're getting 400-500 on wifi on devices consistently, you're well beyond being 'good'.

[Ski7B]

I have a customer/restaurant that I set up with Luxul Epic5, a 1000 wireless controller, a 1010 8port POE switch and 4 - 1610 APs. There is also a dumb 48 port switch in the rack. The restaurant uses the network for its point of sale which is Square. There are 4 iPads and a couple if wired printers. There are also a lot of of other usual suspect devices on the network. I had to replace one of the APs because it had a firmware issue, it was creating weird "ghost" ssids and causing all kinds of havoc.  The problem now is that some of the iPads continue to drop the network causing a lot of grief. The building is very open and the coverage is very good. This all seemed to start happening after the latest iOS update. There are also a couple of Nest cams that were added recently.  I have the same router and APs at home and never have any issues, ever. Any ideas?  Thanks for your input.

[lippavisual]

Nest cameras constantly stream to the outside world.  Huge bandwidth hogs.  Get your sales hat on and wire up some quality cameras with local storage. 

[Ski7B]

6 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

Nest cameras constantly stream to the outside world.  Huge bandwidth hogs.  Get your sales hat on and wire up some quality cameras with local storage. 

I get that. I have 4 Nest cams at home. Both at home and at this restaurant there is fiber 1 Gig internet. No problems at home with pretty much the same network.

[lippavisual]

To be blunt, I’d never run Luxul in a customer environment.  Sorry can’t help at all with their stuff, but that’s where I’d be looking. 

[c4Iona]

Just my general thoughts.

I put all of my clients on a 10.0.10.0/24.  If they have a VERY large home, I may go with a /23 and have a DHCP range with 254 addresses.

1 is the gateway.  2-9 are switches 10-19 are AP's.  20-29 are storage appliances. 30-59 are other devices like C4, Apple TV's, TV's etc...  60-79 are for cameras.

I am big on static IP's.  I really don't like to do reservations for gear that should not change.  I also try and set things up using either Google or Cisco for DNS.  

All of that said, I am a Ubiquiti reseller.  I use a USG Pro 4 or UDM Pro for the router.  I never use the USG.  For switches I use the Pro 48 POE or Pro 24 Poe.  I always put a separate switch in the AV rack and connect it to the 48 Port via a 10 gig SFP using fiber.  I also connect back to the router from the 48 with 10 gb fiber.  Over kill?  Maybe, but the 75 bucks that costs is worth not having  bottlenecks or over subscription that can occur.

I have a contract with hostifi for the clients that have the USG Pro's.  I don't use the cloud key unless a client specifically asks for it.

I have been using the AC-Pro Ap's but am starting to look at the U6 Lite's and the Nano HD's as the AC-Pro's get older.  I also use a lot in in wall AP's.  They are great fro homes that have no land line but where cat5/6 was used for telephone jacks and not daisy chained.

I know Ubiquiti is on the NO NO list but I have not had any issues. (Knock on Wood)

 

 

[mindedc1]

On 2/23/2021 at 9:29 AM, Ski7B said:

I have a customer/restaurant that I set up with Luxul Epic5, a 1000 wireless controller, a 1010 8port POE switch and 4 - 1610 APs. There is also a dumb 48 port switch in the rack. The restaurant uses the network for its point of sale which is Square. There are 4 iPads and a couple if wired printers. There are also a lot of of other usual suspect devices on the network. I had to replace one of the APs because it had a firmware issue, it was creating weird "ghost" ssids and causing all kinds of havoc.  The problem now is that some of the iPads continue to drop the network causing a lot of grief. The building is very open and the coverage is very good. This all seemed to start happening after the latest iOS update. There are also a couple of Nest cams that were added recently.  I have the same router and APs at home and never have any issues, ever. Any ideas?  Thanks for your input.

Wireless survey needed. Get someone with an Ekahau Sidekick who knows how to use it. Probably 2.4ghz is too strong and the iPads are not roaming to 5ghz properly. There could also be co-channel interference or some bad implementation of 802.11k/r... hard to get right.

 I'm not a fan of the prosumer stuff when real enterprise grade gear can be had at the same price, but APs shouldn't drop. Sounds like an RF/config issue...