Turned any fan into a Bond fan with true-2 way feedback

[msgreenf]

The Bond Bridge is great since it can broadcast RF and control the fan, but the downside is that you don't have 2 way integration.  BUT you can!  You can install this module, replacing your existing fan control module.  https://www.homedepot.com/p/Universal-Smart-Wi-Fi-4-Speed-Ceiling-Fan-Remote-Works-with-Google-Assistant-SmartThings-and-Alexa-99434/311264804

Each one of these are their own bond bridge and can control a fan + light.  I moved to 1 in my master bedroom and I plan to add 3 more!  They are great.  True-2 way feedback so if you use the bond app, control4 or bond remote it doesn't matter.  

 

 

[Pounce]

Yea, @alanchow linked to it in his diver thread a ways back

 

[Elvis]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:12 PM, msgreenf said:

The Bond Bridge is great since it can broadcast RF and control the fan, but the downside is that you don't have 2 way integration.  BUT you can!  You can install this module, replacing your existing fan control module.  https://www.homedepot.com/p/Universal-Smart-Wi-Fi-4-Speed-Ceiling-Fan-Remote-Works-with-Google-Assistant-SmartThings-and-Alexa-99434/311264804

Each one of these are their own bond bridge and can control a fan + light.  I moved to 1 in my master bedroom and I plan to add 3 more!  They are great.  True-2 way feedback so if you use the bond app, control4 or bond remote it doesn't matter.  

This looks awesome Mitch. I can't watch the video right now but the implication is that no fan modification is required. Is that right? For $60, seems no brainer.

I wonder if you can tie one of these to two identical fans that are in close proximity?

[msgreenf]

no, a fan modification is required.  You have to wire the new controller into the fan and remove the existing fan controller.

No, this is a single device solution only.  But you can have many in bond - no limitations (i am aware of on #), I have 4

[Pounce]

22 minutes ago, Elvis said:

This looks awesome Mitch. I can't watch the video right now but the implication is that no fan modification is required. Is that right? For $60, seems no brainer.

I wonder if you can tie one of these to two identical fans that are in close proximity?

No fan modification. Just replace the current controller or add this one. I have these and they are cool, but there are some minor annoying aspects that you may or may not find annoying. The wifi flipper/dongle/paddle/eyesore needs to be placed outside of the fan housing where the fan meets the ceiling. Don't use the instructions in the silly video. They show sticking it to the ceiling way outside of the fan housing for the junction box. I mean you can do that, but that sure looks terrible. The dongle is meant to snuggle up under the edge of the housing with only half of it sticking out. They include a couple of thick spacer bushings you are meant to install between the junction box/ceiling and the fan craddle to make space for the dongle between the ceiling and the trim of the fan. So the annoying part of this design is that there will be some form of a gap between the ceiling and the fan trim ring. You can get creative and modify your fan trim and not use the bushings etc OR you can play with wifi without the flipper exposed.

If you do not use the hub with the fan controller you are using the cloud to control the fan with the app or you are using the remote. I believe the cloud and app don't really have a restriction on number of devices.

The app isn't terrible, but it's not the greatest. They could improve on the widgets.

I do not think you can connect a controller to more than one fan.

 

I think they are worth the $60 bucks and 5 minutes it takes to install. You also get some opportunities to control them using API's.

[msgreenf]

i think the only bad part of the system is the included remotes don't stay in sync.  If you turn off the fan with API - the remote doesnt now and if you press the speed button it will jump vs going on gracefully.

[Elvis]

13 minutes ago, Pounce said:

No fan modification. Just replace the current controller or add this one. I have these and they are cool, but there are some minor annoying aspects that you may or may not find annoying. The wifi flipper/dongle/paddle/eyesore needs to be placed outside of the fan housing where the fan meets the ceiling. Don't use the instructions in the silly video. They show sticking it to the ceiling way outside of the fan housing for the junction box. I mean you can do that, but that sure looks terrible. The dongle is meant to snuggle up under the edge of the housing with only half of it sticking out. They include a couple of thick spacer bushings you are meant to install between the junction box/ceiling and the fan craddle to make space for the dongle between the ceiling and the trim of the fan. So the annoying part of this design is that there will be some form of a gap between the ceiling and the fan trim ring. You can get creative and modify your fan trim and not use the bushings etc OR you can play with wifi without the flipper exposed.

If you do not use the hub with the fan controller you are using the cloud to control the fan with the app or you are using the remote. I believe the cloud and app don't really have a restriction on number of devices.

The app isn't terrible, but it's not the greatest. They could improve on the widgets.

I do not think you can connect a controller to more than one fan.

 

I think they are worth the $60 bucks and 5 minutes it takes to install. You also get some opportunities to control them using API's.

Just re-enforced my poor choice of using Minka fans, for multiple reasons.

[msgreenf]

19 minutes ago, Pounce said:

The app isn't terrible, but it's not the greatest. They could improve on the widgets.

 

I agree - app isn't great but the goal is to only use it for setup and not use it beyond that!  So they API is really what matters

[Pounce]

19 minutes ago, Elvis said:

Just re-enforced my poor choice of using Minka fans, for multiple reasons.

How so? I'm curious.

[Elvis]

12 minutes ago, Pounce said:

How so? I'm curious.

1. Their fans have a decent CFM rating, but don't produce adequate wind speed. Typical of long, thin blade fans. A smaller diameter fan with same CFM equals faster wind speed.

2. Remote control only. I have wall mounted control instead of a walk-around remote. The wall mount is basically an A/C powered remote that fits in a single gang box. In both cases, the remotes have very poor feedback and are soft plastic touch buttons. Poorly labeled. 

3. Had one at previous house wired through an integrated switch. Turning on the switch sent power to the fan and it would turn on in the last state. However, it took long enough that someone flipping the switch would think "Oh, wrong switch" and turn it back off. It was like it had to boot up. Of course, this caused problems when someone went outside and tried to turn it on with the remote -- had to make sure the inside switch was on first. Or if someone previously turned the fan off with the remote, powering it on at the switch did nothing.

4. Value. I think it is very poor value. 10 year old fans at the old house put out more of breeze and were fully integrated by replacing the light switch with a smart switch and fan with a fan speed controller. Buying a Minka with an integrated Bond controller doesn't improve the physical performance of the fan, or the physical remote.

 

[msgreenf]

2. the hardware referenced here would fix #2

[Pounce]

6 minutes ago, Elvis said:

1. Their fans have a decent CFM rating, but don't produce adequate wind speed. Typical of long, thin blade fans. A smaller diameter fan with same CFM equals faster wind speed.

2. Remote control only. I have wall mounted control instead of a walk-around remote. The wall mount is basically an A/C powered remote that fits in a single gang box. In both cases, the remotes have very poor feedback and are soft plastic touch buttons. Poorly labeled. 

3. Had one at previous house wired through an integrated switch. Turning on the switch sent power to the fan and it would turn on in the last state. However, it took long enough that someone flipping the switch would think "Oh, wrong switch" and turn it back off. It was like it had to boot up. Of course, this caused problems when someone went outside and tried to turn it on with the remote -- had to make sure the inside switch was on first. Or if someone previously turned the fan off with the remote, powering it on at the switch did nothing.

4. Value. I think it is very poor value. 10 year old fans at the old house put out more of breeze and were fully integrated by replacing the light switch with a smart switch and fan with a fan speed controller. Buying a Minka with an integrated Bond controller doesn't improve the physical performance of the fan, or the physical remote.

 

Gotcha. Minka has a pretty wide range of fan types. I have some and like them. For sure if you want or need air velocity for the feel you want to pick the right fan. I mostly use fans to turn over the air in large spaces and don't want to feel the breeze. Just air mixing. I like keeping some of them in winter mode to ensure seating in the middle of the room isn't a wind tunnel.

Like you I have fans that suffer from memory and switch delay. It's annoying. In fact I just got something I'm calling a Fandelier. Big multi crystal chandelier with a small internal fan. I love the fixture, but its DC and it has the worst of the worst controller. It beep when you give it power. It beeps when you change any control. It doesn't remember its fan setting. I have yet to find a replacement for the controller. I have changed the lighting to be controlled by a second circuit because it didn't dim 300w of lighting. The fan is terrible, but this thing is in a big dome vault in our master and we just needed it to move the air once in a while. Wish I could get a Bond controller for DC motors.

The other Bond controllers I've hard wired on where there used to be a switch. Now its remote or app/hub/api or breaker . Solves the switch problem.

The bond remotes are learning remotes. I *think* you can use other remotes if you don't like the one that comes with the fan. It's an OK remote. The mount is improved over what is shown in the product pictures.

Depending on Minka fan you can retrofit it with the universal bond controller. I haven't personally seen a Minka with DC, but it's possible. That would be a problem.

[Elvis]

Yep, I picked the wrong fan for the job (outdoor porch, high ceiling) before moving from Kerrville. Then I listened to my electrician and made the same mistake again. He did me right on the lighting and boat lifts, but I should've trusted my own experience. It doesn't matter how well integrated the fan is, or how nice it looks, if it doesn't perform.

These two fans would be great inside for the reasons you mention.

[Pounce]

3 minutes ago, Elvis said:

Yep, I picked the wrong fan for the job (outdoor porch, high ceiling) before moving from Kerrville. Then I listened to my electrician and made the same mistake again. He did me right on the lighting and boat lifts, but I should've trusted my own experience. It doesn't matter how well integrated the fan is, or how nice it looks, if it doesn't perform.

These two fans would be great inside for the reasons you mention.

You can also wire these controllers remotely to the fan. They don't actually have to be mounted above the fan. In the case of an outdoor fan you could mount them inside or in another enclosure.

Yes, outdoors you want the breeze for sure. Big blades and dropped from the ceiling. I have some cheap hunter outdoor fans that move a lot of air. I like them because their blades haven't drooped in the humidity even after years. I hate to admit it, but I think I leave them on 24/7. Keeps the bugs away.

[jreinardy]

I'm about to have ceiling boxes installed in 4 bedrooms so I can finally get fans.  It appears to me that with this solution, I would not need to have wall switches wired, the power could go straight to the fans and always be on.  Is that correct?  My initial thought was to use C4 fan controllers, but this appears to be a cheaper solution.  Can anybody compare the 2 solutions? 

 

Thanks,

Jim

[msgreenf]

I'm about to have ceiling boxes installed in 4 bedrooms so I can finally get fans.  It appears to me that with this solution, I would not need to have wall switches wired, the power could go straight to the fans and always be on.  Is that correct?  My initial thought was to use C4 fan controllers, but this appears to be a cheaper solution.  Can anybody compare the 2 solutions? 
 
Thanks,
Jim

Correct. Always hot works. That's what I am doing.

You are correct that depending on # of fans this may be cheaper. But also keep in mind you have to buy the bond driver.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[Elvis]

(See Mitch's remarks below. Works on RF.) I would give this careful consideration. Always hot means you're counting on C4 to work, the Bond IO driver to work, the Bond device/hardware to work, and the WIFI to be working. And Mitch is is an expert in all of this, meaning when something goes wrong he fixes it himself (I would assume, anyway).

But wiring hot eliminates the cost of retrofitting wall switches. Pulling wire 4 times to 4 wall switches could easily make this an easy decision, at least cost-wise.

Edit: And with RF control as a backup, this is probably a good choice. I'm assuming you have a dedicated light switch to turn the lights on, not necessarily the fan light. Having to hunt around for the remote to turn on the fan light could be frustrating.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Elvis
Mitch's response.

[msgreenf]

I don't agree with your asessment.  You are not relying on C4 to always work or Wifi.  The module also has an RF remote...no different then most fans and relying on an RF remote.

 

And also all i did was not wire the fans differently i just wired them hot at the wall and put a blank over it

[Pounce]

21 minutes ago, Elvis said:

I would give this careful consideration. Always hot means you're counting on C4 to work, the Bond IO driver to work, the Bond device/hardware to work, and the WIFI to be working. And Mitch is is an expert in all of this, meaning when something goes wrong he fixes it himself (I would assume, anyway).

But wiring hot eliminates the cost of retrofitting wall switches. Pulling wire 4 times to 4 wall switches could easily make this an easy decision, at least cost-wise.

 

I think I'd make it clear to wire the junction box for the fan "normally". Meaning run two circuits from the wall location. An electrician would do this out of habbit/code anyway so don't ask them to do it any different.

For sure if you wire hot you want the controller to work. If it doesn't it also would not work when you toggle the power using a switch. If you need to toggle power when you wire the box hot you can always flip the breaker.

As noted these controllers use a remote and can be controlled using wifi. When your wifi goes down they actually fall back to AP mode so you can still access them.

 

[DWRobinson]

On 9/10/2020 at 10:15 AM, msgreenf said:

But you can have many in bond - no limitations (i am aware of on #), I have 4

According to the spec sheets, the Bond Bridge is limited to 30 devices and the Bond Pro is limited to 50 devices.

[lippavisual]

Install the wiring traditionally.  Pretty sure it's code anyways to wire from a wall box to the fan and not directly from breaker to the fan.

After the fact, do what you gotta do for the functionality you want.

[msgreenf]

Install the wiring traditionally.  Pretty sure it's code anyways to wire from a wall box to the fan and not directly from breaker to the fan.
After the fact, do what you gotta do for the functionality you want.

Andi wasn't advocating for anything different. That is how to do it

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[lippavisual]

14 hours ago, msgreenf said:

Andi wasn't advocating for anything different. That is how to do it

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

Yup, just wanted to throw it out there and wasn't saying otherwise.

[DanITman]

@msgreenf Thank you for posting this.  I bought three of them and got them installed yesterday and they work fantastic.  I'm now testing the Bond Driver.  You said this is 2way.  When you use the remote do you see an update in the C4 interface and on keypads?  Should that behavior be expected? 

For others considering this setup it works really well and the fan controllers are very easy to install.  You do not need the bond bridge device.  These fan controllers have a bond bridge built-in to them.  They connect to wifi directly and the Bond Driver communicates with them directly. 

[msgreenf]

2 minutes ago, DanITman said:

@msgreenf Thank you for posting this.  I bought three of them and got them installed yesterday and they work fantastic.  I'm now testing the Bond Driver.  You said this is 2way.  When you use the remote do you see an update in the C4 interface and on keypads?  Should that behavior be expected? 

yes you should see