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OS 3.2 Out today! with new products!


Matt Lowe

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10 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

I see that the iOS app updated today.  The update allows for Chime integration (per the notes in the App Store).  It does not appear to allow for any other integration (or I am missing something which is quite possible!).  I thought the idea was for the C4 app to replace Intercom Anywhere.  Is this still coming, or are those of us with DS2s going to have to stick with Intercom Anywhere while those with the Chime can use the main C4 app?

I checked the notes online and looks like the merged app is coming in November so maybe the next release not the update from today?

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🔔 I'd like to Chime in here (see what I'm doing there)...

WHY RING STILL MAKES SENSE (for some):

1) If you have pervasive use of Amazon Alexa.  Example: I have Echo Dots in about every room, Echo Show on my office desk and wife's office desk and on each night stand.  

2) When the Ring gets rung, every Echo device in the house chimes instantly (or whatever other sound - currently a halloween organ) and is easy to hear everywhere.  (Note, I have speakers throughout the house, but the idea of having to leave my amps on all the time to get a decent response time is unappealing, and my Episode amps seem to give off a fair amount of heat when left on, even if nothing is playing - something I imagine shortens their lifespan - let me know if I am wrong on this).

3) The Echo shows automatically boot to the Ring doorbell view and allow you to answer (unmute your mic) or just look and listen.  Response time in my house is pretty good using Ring Elite using POE.  I will admit that for some reason longer conversations through the Ring drop on my Echo Show (any fixes for this?), I do not have same issue on iPhone/iPad app.  I don't have to get up from my desk to find a C4 Touchscreen or pick up my phone.  Very convenient.

4) At any time I can say, "Alexa show the Ring" or "Alexa show the front door camera" and bring up the Ring on my desktop Echo Show.  Very convenient.

5) Ring's app and navigation of history and events is pretty darn good.  Compared to for example Luma, it is eons ahead.  Haven't seen C4 Chime's event views so cannot compare.

WHY SOME OF THE CONTROL4 STUFF DOESN'T MATTER (to me)

I don't care about having an action button on the screen.  I'm not unlocking my front door to let anyone in during a pandemic (or any other time for that matter).  Deliveries go to the Garage via Amazon Key automatically.  If there is something else that needs to be done, it can be done through the Ring Driver, or manually by flipping over to the C4 app (which is not a huge effort let's be real).

I don't care to invest in C4 Touchscreens.  I have a LaunchPort mounted iPad Mini that functions very nicely, and while not a dedicated always-on Control4 Interface, that is some of the attraction - I can do other things with it when necessary.

WISHES

I wish that Control4 would provide Ring (or Ring would allow) integration through the Intercom Anywhere app or in C4 app itself.

I wish that Ring would feed into my NVR (a decent reason to prefer the Chime).

Had C4 Chime been available when I installed Ring, it would have been a tough call, I certainly see some advantages to the C4 solution, but you cannot discount entirely the Ring either.

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@anon2828your wishes will never happen.
 

C4 Chime history is a lot easier to access than Ring history (and faster).

If you want Echo devices to act as your doorbell Ring is a better choice than Chime.  In every other category Chime is better if you have a C4 system.  And this is coming from someone who is/was a huge Ring fan.

If you do not have a video doorbell today, have C4 and are deciding between a Ring and a Chime, a Chime is the way to go.  Better camera, better integration, local recording and (when you factor in Ring driver cost), less expensive.

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1 hour ago, jfh said:

@anon2828your wishes will never happen.
 

C4 Chime history is a lot easier to access than Ring history (and faster).

If you want Echo devices to act as your doorbell Ring is a better choice than Chime.  In every other category Chime is better if you have a C4 system.  And this is coming from someone who is/was a huge Ring fan.

If you do not have a video doorbell today, have C4 and are deciding between a Ring and a Chime, a Chime is the way to go.  Better camera, better integration, local recording and (when you factor in Ring driver cost), less expensive.

You can swipe directly from a live image to categorized recordings with Ring so thats about as easy as it gets. 

The cam quality is not better if you compare the images.

The Pro X is the same price as the Chime, the other Ring doorbells are less expensive. 

C4 does not integrate so obviously if thats important/necessary the Chime is the solution. Same goes with NVR recording. 

Both Savant and C4 use the 2N as its main door station and for most...  purchasing an $1100+ video doorbell when compared to consumer options is laughable so having the Chime as an option now at the $399 price is awesome.

To say that that will never Ring would never happen isn't quite the case. Instead of trying to compete with the consumer priced market the Savant app now fully integrates with Ring doorbell just as the 2N functions. This trend will continue. Control4 has so much versatily with 3rd party devices, it's a shame video doorbell integration in general has been slow when it's one of the standard smart home devices.  

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I have both the Ring Elite and C4 Chime, both connected by PoE.  The image on the Chime is noticeably crisper/cleaner and the camera has a wider field.  Sound quality (especially live conversation) on the Chime is so much better than the Ring.  (Good to very good vs. poor to unintelligible)

Are you saying that Amazon now has an API that Savant uses to allow local video integration?   If so, that’s a change in direction for them.  They had previously made it clear to developers any access was going to be very limited.

 

I do agree with you that C4 has been slow with integration of video doorbells (ditto garage door openers) that are key components in home automation for many.

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14 hours ago, anon2828 said:

Deliveries go to the Garage via Amazon Key automatically.

I wouldn't do this to begin with.

But that's not really important in the overall discussion.

 

I'm not discounting the Ring at all as far as a stand-alone solution, but I wouldn't want ring for the same reason I don't want echos all across my house. Same would go as to why I don't want Nest + Google everywhere.

Both companies know enough from me already. No I'm not fearful of them listening in - indeed I'd not be able to think of anything I'd need to hide from either one - but I'm not here to fill their wallet at no benefit to me either.

 

Within C4, Ring's integration has unfortunately been limited. Something between Ring and C4 and how the stream works doesn't match, and neither side has been willing to make the required changes. No clue if it will never happen.

 

Previously, the cost of the DS series has been prohibitive of using C4, that has now changed to where you  can have a fully integrated device at a comparable price, that so far seems to work extremely well.

To me it's a no-brainer to go with Chime (assuming there is nothing there already) over Ring of Doorbird - but in the end that's an opinion. I wouldn't say 'no' to a client on putting in a Ring + driver, but I wouldn't go in suggesting Ring at this point either.

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Just now, jfh said:

I have both the Ring Elite and C4 Chime, both connected by PoE.  The image on the Chime is noticeably crisper/cleaner and the camera has a wider field.  Sound quality (especially live conversation) on the Chime is so much better than the Ring.  (Good to very good vs. poor to unintelligible)

Are you saying that Amazon now has an API that Savant uses to allow local video integration?   If so, that’s a change in direction for them.  They had previously made it clear to developers any access was going to be very limited.

 

I do agree with you that C4 has been slow with integration of video doorbells (ditto garage door openers) that are key components in home automation for many.

I understand your opinion of the Elite. However the general point of the Ring integration would be for standard 2wire doorbell solutions which is how they become popular to begin with. Doorbird would be a more appropriate POE solution IMO if you are designing and not retrofitting. 

Yes, Savant now can use a Ring doorbell to integrate directly into the Savant app and ecosystem, they have also been able to use Doorbird directly for a while. 

 

The Garage door issue is a problem across the board. With how much Liftmaster/Chamberlin are used... everyone should be planning for hard wired contacts and soldered control. 

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Do you need C4 Touchscreens to make it worthwhile to have the C4 Chime?  The C4 app is too slow to load, at least on iOS, to make it useful for answering the door.  I too have a few Echos with video so the Ring solution has worked well for me, even with only partial C4 integration.  I don't have C4 touchscreens and I don't use the C4 OSD.

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11 minutes ago, AVNeeds said:

I understand your opinion of the Elite. However the general point of the Ring integration would be for standard 2wire doorbell solutions which is how they become popular to begin with. 


The Chime wireless version would replace a standard 2wire doorbell as well, so that’s only a Ring advantage for a few weeks. ;)

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15 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Do you need C4 Touchscreens to make it worthwhile to have the C4 Chime?  The C4 app is too slow to load, at least on iOS, to make it useful for answering the door.  I too have a few Echos with video so the Ring solution has worked well for me, even with only partial C4 integration.  I don't have C4 touchscreens and I don't use the C4 OSD.

Probably better with T3/T4.  Can’t imagine OSD would be useful (no two-way audio).

We’ll know more when the Intercom function is integrated into the iOS ap.  I always have the iOS C4 opened on my iPad so I haven’t paid attention to load time.

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26 minutes ago, jfh said:

Fair.  But we’re on a C4 forum, so I presume most are pretty committed to Control4. ;)

Probably 50/50... we know how that conversation goes.

"I'd like to buy a smart home system..."

 Ok.

"I have some inexpensive Ring devices already, can that be included in the big expensive system?"

No. You have to replace it with something the exact same. 

"Oh, ok maybe we skip that feature."

 

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1 hour ago, zaphod said:

Do you need C4 Touchscreens to make it worthwhile to have the C4 Chime?  The C4 app is too slow to load, at least on iOS, to make it useful for answering the door.  I too have a few Echos with video so the Ring solution has worked well for me, even with only partial C4 integration.  I don't have C4 touchscreens and I don't use the C4 OSD.

Haven't extensively tested the Ring, but integrated C4 app intercom on my phone is up and running in 1-2 seconds of pressing the button, occasionally 3 seconds if not on local WiFi.

Worthwhile is an opinion really. I'm not running out telling people to replace an existing, working, Ring with a Chime right now, but it is one heck of a nice piece.

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Ring doesn't use standard ports for video.  It is SIP based, but the port ranges are not typical.  There's also an extra layer of security on top.

To say again, you will never be able to record your own video from Ring.....never.

I also highly doubt C4 will change their software to even attempt to work with Ring, considering Chime is out now.

And for those wondering, Savant's partnership is with the Ring X line, not the existing products you have now.  Also, will require a Savant license.

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38 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Haven't extensively tested the Ring, but integrated C4 app intercom on my phone is up and running in 1-2 seconds of pressing the button, occasionally 3 seconds if not on local WiFi.

Worthwhile is an opinion really. I'm not running out telling people to replace an existing, working, Ring with a Chime right now, but it is one heck of a nice piece.

I find that it can often take longer than 10 seconds for the C4 iOS app to finish downloading properties and come to life. I have seen a fair number of complaints both here and on other forums about this issue.  I don't know about the C4 intercom app, but isn't that supposed to be merged into the main C4 app?

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31 minutes ago, zaphod said:

I find that it can often take longer than 10 seconds for the C4 iOS app to finish downloading properties and come to life. I have seen a fair number of complaints both here and on other forums about this issue.  I don't know about the C4 intercom app, but isn't that supposed to be merged into the main C4 app?

Yes, all I can tell you is this - intercom comes up fast, faster than me loading my app (mind you you app shouldn't be downloading properties all the time, only current state of rooms, unless changes were made). I'm no expert, but my guess is the intercom portion starts up first, to allow faster response there.

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30 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Yes, all I can tell you is this - intercom comes up fast, faster than me loading my app (mind you you app shouldn't be downloading properties all the time, only current state of rooms, unless changes were made). I'm no expert, but my guess is the intercom portion starts up first, to allow faster response there.

I also have seen extremely fast loading times on the intercom using a DS2 maybe even faster than before. The regular part of the app has been about the same typically less than 8 seconds when at home less 20 seconds if remote in most every case.

 

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6 hours ago, lippavisual said:

And for those wondering, Savant's partnership is with the Ring X line, not the existing products you have now.  Also, will require a Savant license.

No. Savant sells RingX directly which does includes the Ring lic. free... they also support a list of previously installed pro, elite and camera options. The purchase of the lic is no different than a purchased C4 driver. 

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Thinking about getting Chime once I get my T4 installed later this year. I’ll be replacing a Nest Hello at the front door. I also have a Nest indoor camera that sends notifications for movement or sounds. Are there C4 equivalent cameras I can use indoors that will give me a similar experience to Nest?  And if so, will they all be accessible from within the C4 app?

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