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Use the old outlet dimmer or the new one?


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All,

Good day. I wanted to get your thoughts on the best solution here. So after doing research it looks like the old outlet dimmers (LOZ-5D1) were not really designed to dim LEDs. They can handle 700 watts total or 350 watts per plug. The new outlet dimmers are designed for LEDs and can handle about 150 watts (LEDs) and 300 watts (Halogen). So here is my question. I'm not actually dimming the LEDs directly. These outlet dimmers would be connected to the transformer that then powers the LEDs. Most of my transformers are 100 watt or less, but I do have one transformer that is about 350 watts. So if I'm not powering LEDs directly, and instead powering the transformers that then power the LEDS, can I use the higher power handling of the  LOZ-5D1 that was made for halogen? Or even if I use the new outlet dimmers, can I go by the halogen rating instead of the LED rating? But even using the halogen rating for the new outlet dimmers at 300 watts, I still have  that one 350 watt transformer, would it be ok?

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What type/brand/model are the transformers? This will help you decide what you need, as different transformers will need forward or reverse phase dimming. Also make sure you do not underload or overload the tape transformers, try to stick around 80% of maximum wattage for best results. If this was me I would be using APD dimmers, hardwired to the transformers as this will give you the most flexibility.  Not really sure what you are going to do with the large transformer I haven't seen one that large for LED tape, you might have to use smaller and break up the loads.

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51 minutes ago, HRT said:

What type/brand/model are the transformers? This will help you decide what you need, as different transformers will need forward or reverse phase dimming. Also make sure you do not underload or overload the tape transformers, try to stick around 80% of maximum wattage for best results. If this was me I would be using APD dimmers, hardwired to the transformers as this will give you the most flexibility.  Not really sure what you are going to do with the large transformer I haven't seen one that large for LED tape, you might have to use smaller and break up the loads.

I running an entire closet off one transformer. That is why that one is so large. I dont have the option anymore to put them on APD dimmers unless I want it to look really ugly.  The transformers are all Meanwell.

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36 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

These would be just as fast as the native C4 outlets with no noticeable delay?

I haven't seen them in my house with any delays...i use them a lot and have recommended them to many clients, all of whom are happy

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2 hours ago, msgreenf said:

I haven't seen them in my house with any delays...i use them a lot and have recommended them to many clients, all of whom are happy

Where do I get that driver and how much is the driver?

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2 hours ago, msgreenf said:

I haven't seen them in my house with any delays...i use them a lot and have recommended them to many clients, all of whom are happy

Also, are the TP Link outlets just switches or are they dimmers?

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12 hours ago, rf9000 said:

So if I'm not powering LEDs directly, and instead powering the transformers

Doesn't work that way - ALL LEDs aren't directly powered 110v, LEDs are 12, 24 or in rare occasions 36 and 48, so yes you need to follow the LED wattage.

Why not look at a small DMX setup if dimming is needed.

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13 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Doesn't work that way - ALL LEDs aren't directly powered 110v, LEDs are 12, 24 or in rare occasions 36 and 48, so yes you need to follow the LED wattage.

Why not look at a small DMX setup if dimming is needed.

I don’t know what DMX is?

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13 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Doesn't work that way - ALL LEDs aren't directly powered 110v, LEDs are 12, 24 or in rare occasions 36 and 48, so yes you need to follow the LED wattage.

Why not look at a small DMX setup if dimming is needed.

The only transformer I will have a problem with is the master closet. That is a 350 watt transformer. Worst case they can just come on full blast and not dim. It would be a lot nicer if they dimmed on though. What if I could wire an APD to a standard outlet? Then plug transformer into that outlet. That should work? 

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14 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

The only transformer I will have a problem with is the master closet. That is a 350 watt transformer. Worst case they can just come on full blast and not dim. It would be a lot nicer if they dimmed on though. What if I could wire an APD to a standard outlet? Then plug transformer into that outlet. That should work? 

Only if the transformer is capable of dimming.  Most of the ones I've seen electricians install are not.

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36 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

Only if the transformer is capable of dimming.  Most of the ones I've seen electricians install are not.

More so, an APD can still only handle 120w LED load max. That's 9-10 100w equivalent bulbs, so normally enough for 'regular' lighting, but it still won't cover the transformer at full pull by a long shot.

WHAT are these transformers actually powering though? Is that 350w pulling anywhere near that power?

 

LED striplighting, if that is what you're using, are complete powerhogs (people seem to thing because it's LED that they are very energy efficient - but don't keep in mind that there is a LOT of LEDs on a strip...)

 

It may be worth first exploring what this is all actually powering, and if some if not all of these transformers aren't overkill. Understand that we've used 350w transformers to reach the proper 80% cover, and bigger ones as well as multiple ones, but we're normally taking a complete mansion style house exterior strip lighting along all the soffits......and if that is what you have, it really should be setup DMX control.

 

DMX is a control method for lighting. Longs story short, it is extremely well suited for control of LED lighting, especially exterior lighting. Widely used for RGB as well, it's method of control is also great for large LED 'plain' installs due to how it allows you to divide up loads, sections and transformers using multiple decoders, and if need be control them all as one, or in desired parts.

Within C4 they just show up as light loads.

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One of the reasons the LED power handling number is lower than Halogen or Incandescent is to manage inrush current that LED fixtures create, typically 10 times load. No cheating, things break.

And as mentioned, don't assume the transformer is dimable.

DMX in broad strokes, you dim (and adjust color) after the transformer. Rather than a physical 110v switch/dimmer which controls the transformer, you have a DMX networked 'driver' box wired between the transformer and the strip, and tell it colors and brightness to output. Multiple drivers can be chained together, and a single DMX controller is the boss of them, which would then be integrated into Control4.

 

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On 2/8/2021 at 10:25 AM, Cyknight said:

More so, an APD can still only handle 120w LED load max. That's 9-10 100w equivalent bulbs, so normally enough for 'regular' lighting, but it still won't cover the transformer at full pull by a long shot.

WHAT are these transformers actually powering though? Is that 350w pulling anywhere near that power?

 

LED striplighting, if that is what you're using, are complete powerhogs (people seem to thing because it's LED that they are very energy efficient - but don't keep in mind that there is a LOT of LEDs on a strip...)

 

It may be worth first exploring what this is all actually powering, and if some if not all of these transformers aren't overkill. Understand that we've used 350w transformers to reach the proper 80% cover, and bigger ones as well as multiple ones, but we're normally taking a complete mansion style house exterior strip lighting along all the soffits......and if that is what you have, it really should be setup DMX control.

 

DMX is a control method for lighting. Longs story short, it is extremely well suited for control of LED lighting, especially exterior lighting. Widely used for RGB as well, it's method of control is also great for large LED 'plain' installs due to how it allows you to divide up loads, sections and transformers using multiple decoders, and if need be control them all as one, or in desired parts.

Within C4 they just show up as light loads.

All I did was add up the length of LED strips in the master closet that I'm using, multiply that by the wattage per foot that the strip indicates, and that gives me my total wattage. I then selected a transformer based on this. Right now the system is setup where the transformer will plug into a regular outlet, that outlet will be controlled by an APD. This should work I'm assuming? The transformer I have is actually a 320watt. It is the following:

https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/HLG-320H/HLG-320H-SPEC.PDF

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3 hours ago, rf9000 said:

that outlet will be controlled by an APD.

TECHNICALLY you shouldn't have a dimmer on an outlet, but besides that, an APD is STILL only going to be rated for 120W LED - and you're well over that.

That PDF covers several models, so can't judge if it's (normally) dimmable.

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5 hours ago, Cyknight said:

TECHNICALLY you shouldn't have a dimmer on an outlet, but besides that, an APD is STILL only going to be rated for 120W LED - and you're well over that.

That PDF covers several models, so can't judge if it's (normally) dimmable.

I actually think it will work the way I have it, but just in case it doesnt, what is the least expensive option to accomplish what I'm trying to do. I dont really want to spend hundreds of dollars to simply dim on my closet LEDs. Worst case I just have them come on full blast and it costs nothing with a regular SW tied to the outlet.

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1 hour ago, rf9000 said:

I actually think it will work the way I have it, but just in case it doesnt, what is the least expensive option to accomplish what I'm trying to do. I dont really want to spend hundreds of dollars to simply dim on my closet LEDs. Worst case I just have them come on full blast and it costs nothing with a regular SW tied to the outlet.

I actually think you'll wreck the dimmer. You say you have several of 100W or less, and one 350W. You're putting a dimmer on there for 120W. Not sure what math you're using but...

 

If you want it controlled, you could use a C4 switch - but if you want dimming, use DMX.

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2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

I actually think you'll wreck the dimmer. You say you have several of 100W or less, and one 350W. You're putting a dimmer on there for 120W. Not sure what math you're using but...

 

If you want it controlled, you could use a C4 switch - but if you want dimming, use DMX.

It all really don’t make sense. For instance I have two chandeliers that each have an APD dimmer on them. They each have 108 3watt led bulbs. So roughly 324 watts each. The APD dimmers work great 

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17 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

It all really don’t make sense. For instance I have two chandeliers that each have an APD dimmer on them. They each have 108 3watt led bulbs. So roughly 324 watts each. The APD dimmers work great 

Consider yourself lucky - unless you jinxed it.

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29 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Consider yourself lucky - unless you jinxed it.

Maybe I did. But C4 notes that the maximum wattage for LEDs varies greatly then what is specd based on the bulbs, source, etc. 

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14 hours ago, rf9000 said:

All I did was add up the length of LED strips in the master closet that I'm using, multiply that by the wattage per foot that the strip indicates, and that gives me my total wattage. I then selected a transformer based on this. Right now the system is setup where the transformer will plug into a regular outlet, that outlet will be controlled by an APD. This should work I'm assuming? The transformer I have is actually a 320watt. It is the following:

https://www.meanwell.com/Upload/PDF/HLG-320H/HLG-320H-SPEC.PDF

Quick glance of that manual and it looks like you should be using a 0-10v dimmer.

Also I enjoyed reading the applications the manufacturer designed this for.

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