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Best Access Points


rf9000

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All,

 

So looking for suggestions in the best access points (POE) as far as speed and reliability. Also wanting to know opinions on if WIFI 6 is a must. These will be plugged into all Araknis network gear with an Araknis 310 series router. Was told the Araknis APs are not great. Didn’t want to spend the money on the Ruckus r650 or r750 because I need five of them. And actually one outdoor one too. Was also considering the Unifi HD but it isn’t WiFi 6. Their solution is the new Unifi 6 Long Range, but it doesn’t have the speeds that the HD has. Very open to any brand. Thoughts?

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21 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

Was told the Araknis APs are not great

Depends on the model really.

We've had good success with them but only use the 700 and 800 series, also like the Pakedge WA4200 (trunked so that the ethernet connection will never be a bottleneck)

You'll find a million and one opinions on this as you're well aware.

Ubiquiti I've no doubt will be mentioned, but I wanted to throw out there that the Araknis higher end units, as well as Pakedge have suitable options. Lot depends on your budget.

 

Wifi 6 really isn't a must at this point, nor would I trust anything that claims to be wifi6 ready to actually work until truly proven otherwise. Wifi 6 is only just or about to be officially published - it'll take time before devices are all moved and proven capable of making proper use of it - the AC standard took 5 years before it reached it's base potential (general device adoptation to the point that older devices weren't commonly slowing it down). While WiFi 6 promises better backward compatibility without hindering WiFi 6 devices, it's just too soon to tell.

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I would go find used Ruckus R610/710 on Ebay for around $180/$275 each.   Most of these on Ebay are enterprise pulls and the devices are in great shape and can be flashed to Unleashed firmware for free.   Otherwise i would wait and Unifi will be releasing a Pro / HD Wifi6 version within the next few months (my speculation given their other releases).   Wifi6 not needed imho but I would not spend tons of money on a new non Wifi6 AP... Hence used Ruckus options.

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8 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Also, using Araknis and/or Pakedge will mean OVRC (which your router and switches are on) has everything under one roof (or will have once Pakedge access points) get moved over, which I strongly suspect they will

Say I skip WIFI 6 for now, comparing the Araknis 810 series vs. the Unifi AP HD, they both seem about equal in comparison. Is there anything I'm missing?

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They'll be similar - Araknis piece as mentioned would have remote and all in one management without further devices in your system.

If looks are of import you could look at flushmount options as well. Pakedge has them for the wa series, wallsmart makes them for some of the araknis pieces (unsure which models). Don't know that there is something similar or not for Ruckus or Ubi

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Look for something with a 4x4 antenna array with MU-MIMO and AC. 

On the Low End Unifi Nano HD.

On the High end Araknis 810, Pakedge WA4200 or Unifi AC HD. 

 

I would also probably wait for Wifi 6 to mature a bit. I mean Unifi has them out now but I have no experience with them. And I would probably wait for a Wifi 6 "HD" model. I'm sure its not too far away.

I would also recommend to get an entire ecosystem. For example Use a Unifi router with Unifi APs, or a Pak router with Pak gear. I mean sure you can use a crappy asus router with unifi APs but I do recommend to get a matching router/AP setup. I'm not so picky about switches although it couldn't hurt if they matched too.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, BraydonH said:

Look for something with a 4x4 antenna array

This is certainly the preferable option, though for OP: you mentioned you want 5 of them - what is the reason for that?

If it's coverage, then a 2x2 antenna array may be sufficient (see below)

If it's lots of users, understand that 4x4 and even 2x2 will diminish the issue with lots of devices as it will spread the load already (old style, issue with lots of devices on a single AP is that the bandwidth gets divided and cut down much faster, with MIMO this isn't the case - as much)

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In my day job we use Ruckus/Access Networks. In my personal home & side work I use UniFi exclusively. 

The Ruckus access points are fabulous and the Unleashed configuration is very easy to use and manage. Of course the price on these units is very high, even at cost, so I've seen over the course of my career that deployments tend to be as spare as possible - sometimes at the expense of coverage. 

About 5-6 years ago I was introduced to UniFi and it was a revolution. The "single pane of glass" interface is second to none, but the really useful thing about the APs is that their performance is on par with Ruckus or any other enterprise grade AP, but at a fraction of the price so that you can deploy them generously. 

There are plenty of WiFi 6 APs in the Early Access store so plenty of them coming to market, but I also echo the remarks that WiFi 6 isn't really a key consideration at the moment. I'm only worried about it to the extent clients are demanding it. 

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43 minutes ago, CTMatthew said:

The "single pane of glass" interface is second to none

That is 100% preference - I find their interface one of the more annoying personally. 'Second to none for me would be because it's more '10th to almost anyone'

Wouldn't stop me or make me use the hardware either way though.

As I said, there was no doubt Ubiquiti would be mentioned 😉 - and it certainly is an option.

 

OP can go either way and get good results - but if one is already dedicated to or already have Araknis for router and switches, my suggestion would be to stick to an OVRC integrated AP - so wither Araknis, or go Pakedge if you want a bit more (AP not on OVRC yet, but I expect at least the WA series to be on there somewhere this year along with the new MS series of switches).

😇

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I've tried all of the Unifi APs and the HD is by far the best version they make.   It is also larger than the others in the UI lineup.   The Nano HD would be second in their line up from my lens.   Neither are in the same league as the Ruckus as the controller software is better between handoffs, their antenna configs provide better range, all leading to more throughput.   Even the 3x3 R610 outperforms my previous Unifi HD.   Just sharing as @Cyknight knows I like the Unifi product line up and interface a lot :) but you have to give Ruckus credit where its warranted.   UI interface is a lot more than just a pretty cosmetic app, it is extremely useful in many scenarios I find.   Now whether you find that increased bandwidth of Ruckus useful, depends on your needs and the Unifi HD will be more than enough for a home setup.

Don't know much about Araknis real world but I personally wont buy SnapAV networking gear as they dont like to talk to end users, only dealers.  It's not the model for me but may be for others.

 

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2 hours ago, BraydonH said:

Look for something with a 4x4 antenna array with MU-MIMO and AC. 

On the Low End Unifi Nano HD.

On the High end Araknis 810, Pakedge WA4200 or Unifi AC HD. 

 

I would also probably wait for Wifi 6 to mature a bit. I mean Unifi has them out now but I have no experience with them. And I would probably wait for a Wifi 6 "HD" model. I'm sure its not too far away.

I would also recommend to get an entire ecosystem. For example Use a Unifi router with Unifi APs, or a Pak router with Pak gear. I mean sure you can use a crappy asus router with unifi APs but I do recommend to get a matching router/AP setup. I'm not so picky about switches although it couldn't hurt if they matched too.

 

 

 

I was just told that the Araknis APs were junk?

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38 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

That is 100% preference - I find their interface one of the more annoying personally. 'Second to none for me would be because it's more '10th to almost anyone'

Wouldn't stop me or make me use the hardware either way though.

As I said, there was no doubt Ubiquiti would be mentioned 😉 - and it certainly is an option.

 

OP can go either way and get good results - but if one is already dedicated to or already have Araknis for router and switches, my suggestion would be to stick to an OVRC integrated AP - so wither Araknis, or go Pakedge if you want a bit more (AP not on OVRC yet, but I expect at least the WA series to be on there somewhere this year along with the new MS series of switches).

😇

What I like about the UniFi Controller and the Ruckus Unleashed or ZD based controllers is pushing system-wide settings out. Araknis is getting closer, but not there yet. I know they're benchmarking the UniFi experience and hopefully will start to compete in that space.

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1 minute ago, rf9000 said:

I was just told that the Araknis APs were junk?

As individual pieces of hardware I find the current gens to be pretty good pieces of gear. Every so often we'll put those wall-mounted 510s in. But overall they don't have a controller which means a lot more tinkering to make them all work. As I said in a post above, OvrC is starting to pull more functionality up from the individual AP to the OvrC platform, but that process is just beginning so for anything beyond a basic WiFi deployment they're a little bit more time consuming. 

Also the antenna setups in Ruckus are practically alien technology and the UniFi APs are incredible bang for the buck as well. 

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Everyone has an opinion for sure!

'd love to see Crosstalk Solutions or Lawrence Systems do a head to head of the two.   I'm might propose it actually and flip the bill for the Araknis AP's. 

If you're going to spend the money on Pakedge I would just commit and make the jump to Ruckus gear.

Comparing Rukus to Araknis is like comparing a BMW M series to a Hyundai.  They are both cars but built for very different pourposes.  The rukus and araknis pieces are both wap's but serve very different communities, one is enterprise the other rents cars from enterprise. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

Comparing Rukus to Araknis is like comparing a BMW M series to a Hyundai.

 

 

That's rather unfair, if Araknis is a Hyundai, what are Google, Netgear? Trabants? Then what of engenius, Belkin and other temporary pop-ups.

Also, BMW 'status' in NA isn't the same as BMW 'status' in Europe (same for VW and Volvo) - still can't wrap my head around the idea that those brands are supposedly 'super high class' or 'high(er) class' here...BMW to me is no different than a Lincoln or Chysler, VW/Volvo no different than GMC/Jeep.

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2 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

That's rather unfair, if Araknis is a Hyundai, what are Google, Netgear? Trabants? Then what of engenius, Belkin and other temporary pop-ups.

Also, BMW 'status' in NA isn't the same as BMW 'status' in Europe (same for VW and Volvo) - still can't wrap my head around the idea that those brands are supposedly 'super high class' or 'high(er) class' here...BMW to me is no different than a Lincoln or Chysler, VW/Volvo no different than GMC.

Hyundai has the Genesis which is a nicer then a standard hyundai and is supposed to compete with the European cars. So lets call the Araknis the Genesis, google is the hyundai, and netgear maybe competes with Araknis. 

I own several of the European cars, a ford and a jeep.  The American brands are no where near the same fit and finish, no where near the buying or service experience.  If I want service on  my jeep, I call and schedule a day, when I show up I may have 20 people in front of me checking in and I wait.  When the european cars need service, I call, schedule a specific time, arrive and pull right in, they hand me keys to a loaner, and I'm off.  I've not once gotten a loaner with the american brands.   Completely different vehicles and experiences. 

Like you've stated its all opinion... Between Araknis and Unifi, at this time I'll install Unifi everytime over Araknis.  I prefer the breadth of their line of routers/gateways, switches, and access points. Their switch line gives us plenty of opportunity to build out a well thought out infrastructure for our specific clients needs.  Between Araknis and Ruckus, thats comparing two very different beasts and I struggle with the fact that you, one of the smartest folks on these forums, can find it strange that I'd suggest that.   It would be same as saying Araknis is a good choice compared to Cisco. 

OVRC has potential but doesn't offer the same thing is Ubiquiti's Controller.   I will stay my only OVRC experience though is with the Power and Mirage Audio components. I like it for power control, but that's the extent of my hands on experience with it. 

 

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UniFi, Pak and Araknis tech specs are similar to what you see from avr manufacturers.  Bloated and exaggerated, like watts per channel.

You guys really think a UniFi AP can handle 300-400 clients?  I know they can’t, really about 40-50 before they crap out.

Ruckus has the high price because it has the higher performance and their specs are true.

Never attempted to try Pak or Araknis in the same test, so can’t be sure for them.  But at their price points, you should be buying Ruckus anyways.

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17 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

UniFi, Pak and Araknis tech specs are similar to what you see from avr manufacturers.  Bloated and exaggerated, like watts per channel.

You guys really think a UniFi AP can handle 300-400 clients?  I know they can’t, really about 40-50 before they crap out.

Ruckus has the high price because it has the higher performance and their specs are true.

Never attempted to try Pak or Araknis in the same test, so can’t be sure for them.  But at their price points, you should be buying Ruckus anyways.

Agreed, most of the Unifi WAPs max out around 50ish connections.  The HD, XG and Basestation XG can indeed handle the 300-400 range, of course these units really have no place in a residential install outside of maybe the Basestation for a huge, and open, multiple acre backyard. 

Also agree Ruckus, if its in the price range, for the win. 

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8 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

Is there any real difference between Ruckus and Access Networks APs?  I understand they are the same product but rebadged?

Access essentially brings Ruckus to the residential market and offers support for dealers who likely don't have a great deal of in-house networking expertise. Their "versions" are very highly supported and allow companies to deploy really capable networks based on Ruckus APs (and now switches). 

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