Audio Matrix/Amps

[Time2Jet]

If you had a choice today (Triad being the likely response), what equipment would you choose to do distributed audio.  Combined or separate Matrix/Amps for a 12 zone system.  Also, favorite in-ceilings?  Both separates and DVC (Stereo) pieces?  A lot of you will be happy to know that I have given up on Sonos!  I love love love Sonos, but as a separate ecosystem from Control4 and I was fighting a battle I couldn't win.

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, time2jet said:

Combined or separate Matrix/Amps for a 12 zone system

Depends on required sources. If 6 sources is all that is needed - 2 episode 12ch looped or if 8 will do and only 4 for another (ie music only) maybe a 16ch plus an 8 ch

If more sources are needed, some for of audio matrix plus triad power amps.

Triad will give you a better sound, but for distributed audio, personally, I'm more than happy with the episode for my OWN use.

2 hours ago, time2jet said:

Also, favorite in-ceilings?  Both separates and DVC (Stereo) pieces?

https://www.definitivetechnology.com/architectural-audio

These are still my favourite personally, though for the price, Triad for surround, better episode lines for 'distributed' rooms.

To be fair, there are lots of good choices here - and a lot depends on personal preference.

[Time2Jet]

17 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Depends on required sources. If 6 sources is all that is needed - 2 episode 12ch looped or if 8 will do and only 4 for another (ie music only) maybe a 16ch plus an 8 ch

If more sources are needed, some for of audio matrix plus triad power amps.

Triad will give you a better sound, but for distributed audio, personally, I'm more than happy with the episode for my OWN use.

https://www.definitivetechnology.com/architectural-audio

These are still my favourite personally, though for the price, Triad for surround, better episode lines for 'distributed' rooms.

To be fair, there are lots of good choices here - and a lot depends on personal preference.

Thanks @Cyknight

I am so hesitant to go the way of Triad, but at the same time I know that it works and is a higher end solution with obvious fantastic integration.  I am a fan of episode products (there, I said it!) and am really eager to try the Response series.  At least two zones are Passive Zones that will be AMP'd via their respective AVR's.  Inputs will be from an EA-5 (3-4 max), Zones will be 10-11 at this point (definitely more than 8, but limited to 12 max... likely 10).  

I asked bout the in-ceilings and dvc's because I have two areas that have "water closet/shower" rooms separate from the baths.  I just want to know what others do there (a stereo pair, 2 dvc's)?  They don't have to be separate zones.

[Cyknight]

35 minutes ago, time2jet said:

Thanks @Cyknight

I am so hesitant to go the way of Triad, but at the same time I know that it works and is a higher end solution with obvious fantastic integration.  I am a fan of episode products (there, I said it!) and am really eager to try the Response series.  At least two zones are Passive Zones that will be AMP'd via their respective AVR's.  Inputs will be from an EA-5 (3-4 max), Zones will be 10-11 at this point (definitely more than 8, but limited to 12 max... likely 10).  

I asked bout the in-ceilings and dvc's because I have two areas that have "water closet/shower" rooms separate from the baths.  I just want to know what others do there (a stereo pair, 2 dvc's)?  They don't have to be separate zones.

If the two zones are on together, I would use singles, then have the amp or matrix do mono summing (Triad matrix can do it - would have to check the episode amps, just not sure)

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, time2jet said:

Thanks @Cyknight

I am so hesitant to go the way of Triad, but at the same time I know that it works and is a higher end solution with obvious fantastic integration.  I am a fan of episode products (there, I said it!) and am really eager to try the Response series.  At least two zones are Passive Zones that will be AMP'd via their respective AVR's.  Inputs will be from an EA-5 (3-4 max), Zones will be 10-11 at this point (definitely more than 8, but limited to 12 max... likely 10).  

I asked bout the in-ceilings and dvc's because I have two areas that have "water closet/shower" rooms separate from the baths.  I just want to know what others do there (a stereo pair, 2 dvc's)?  They don't have to be separate zones.

how close to the shower are the speakers going?  i have an enclosed shower/steam room and got invisible speakers that sit above the tile in the ceiling.  i mean they aren't "audiophile" but I am surprised by their quality.  they are wired back to an older C4 amp (model prior to the Triad/c4 amp)

https://www.kbauthority.com/steamist-tss-in-audiosense-invisible-speakers.html

[Time2Jet]

49 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

how close to the shower are the speakers going?  i have an enclosed shower/steam room and got invisible speakers that sit above the tile in the ceiling.  i mean they aren't "audiophile" but I am surprised by their quality.  they are wired back to an older C4 amp (model prior to the Triad/c4 amp)

https://www.kbauthority.com/steamist-tss-in-audiosense-invisible-speakers.html

That room is very small.  The toilet room area is just that... couldn't squeeze another thing in, then the shower beside it was a bathtub shower enclosure that was torn out during the original construction and tiled.  The speaker would install center of the toilet area.  I just worry that when that door is closed that the vanity and tub areas would have been hearing mono one side.  But sounds like doing 2 dvc's and summing will be great.  I haven't had time to look at the episode response specs yet, I feel like I read that it did.

 

[Cyknight]

3 hours ago, time2jet said:

That room is very small.  The toilet room area is just that... couldn't squeeze another thing in, then the shower beside it was a bathtub shower enclosure that was torn out during the original construction and tiled.  The speaker would install center of the toilet area.  I just worry that when that door is closed that the vanity and tub areas would have been hearing mono one side.  But sounds like doing 2 dvc's and summing will be great.  I haven't had time to look at the episode response specs yet, I feel like I read that it did.

 

?When summing, using DVC is redundant - it's just done at matrix or amp instead.

DVC's are great when you have to run a single speaker overall (as a single zone) or your chosen equipment cannot properly mono-sum.

[Time2Jet]

13 hours ago, Cyknight said:

?When summing, using DVC is redundant - it's just done at matrix or amp instead.

DVC's are great when you have to run a single speaker overall (as a single zone) or your chosen equipment cannot properly mono-sum.

@CyknightSo if the Episode doesn’t do mono summing, why not run a pair of wires from the L&R to each DVC? I. Theory each would be stereo with only taking one output (no bridging). 

[Cyknight]

11 hours ago, time2jet said:

@CyknightSo if the Episode doesn’t do mono summing, why not run a pair of wires from the L&R to each DVC? I. Theory each would be stereo with only taking one output (no bridging). 

You could yes, though they do.

Downside or running l+r from a single output is that you're changing the ohm rating. Best case scenario volume levels won't match other zones. Or you're using two outputs, but you mentioned that was not desired.

[tmj4]

So to confirm, the Episode Response DSP Amps can't do mono summing? 
I'm in the same boat here looking for audio for about 8-12 Zones but don't necessarily want to get equipment that can't handle single speaker zones 

[Time2Jet]

8 hours ago, tmj4 said:

So to confirm, the Episode Response DSP Amps can't do mono summing? 
I'm in the same boat here looking for audio for about 8-12 Zones but don't necessarily want to get equipment that can't handle single speaker zones 

If your running a DVC type speaker and have a zine available, mono summing does not come into play.  

Someone can confirm, but it appears that the Episode Response will do mono summing (semantics).  
 

If your interested, I just did an Autonomics system that I am very impressed with.  I did a 10+2 where there are 10 amped zones and two line level for outputting to an AVR or Sonos Port or similar.  It seems to be really awesome so far.  

[Cyknight]

The DO do mono summing.

[tmj4]

2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

The DO do mono summing.

This is GREAT to hear! Was not aware of this and my dealer didn't have experience with it. Love how much this community helps out.

Are you aware of way to daisy-chain or connect, say a 16 channel and 8 channel together? Or would both need their separate sets of inputs from C4 controllers and/or a devices like an Autonomic AU-MMS-3E or -5E?

[Cyknight]

In case of the episode response series, they have input loop outs, so you can cascade sources provided there is enough inputs.

So if all you want is 4 sources for the 8 channel, that can work.

 

NOTE that you SHOULD NOT loop out controller outputs!!! This causes issues in pathing where you're liable to 'steal' existing streams.

[tmj4]

15 hours ago, Cyknight said:

NOTE that you SHOULD NOT loop out controller outputs!!! This causes issues in pathing where you're liable to 'steal' existing streams

So to clarify, if I'm going out from a controller and into "IN1" on the Episode Response but then also going out from "OUT1" to in to "IN1" on another Episode Response, there is a chance that signal won't be heard on any of the speakers outputs on the first Episode response because it's going to be "stolen" by the downstream Episode Amp? 

[Cyknight]

24 minutes ago, tmj4 said:

So to clarify, if I'm going out from a controller and into "IN1" on the Episode Response but then also going out from "OUT1" to in to "IN1" on another Episode Response, there is a chance that signal won't be heard on any of the speakers outputs on the first Episode response because it's going to be "stolen" by the downstream Episode Amp? 

The problem comes when you have more than 1 output mainly - the system doesn't track that setup well, and zones on amp one listening to in1, may 'randomly' get overtaen when a zone on amp two selects a different stream.

On top of that, it'll mess up the zones interface, showing two 'groups' instead of one

[tmj4]

Gotcha...thanks for all the info. 

So if I need to go more than 8 zones with only one controller at this point is it going to be better to go with a AMS-24 and then add the 8 Zone amps as I need to expand out? 

[C4 User]

I’m late to this subject and admittedly have not read all of the above responses but i have 16 zones of distributed audio and use two audio control 16 channel matrix amps. Each input from one amp can be daisy chained to the second amp (and so on). It works great and integrates flawlessly with C4.

[tmj4]

10 hours ago, C4 User said:

I’m late to this subject and admittedly have not read all of the above responses but i have 16 zones of distributed audio and use two audio control 16 channel matrix amps. Each input from one amp can be daisy chained to the second amp (and so on). It works great and integrates flawlessly with C4.

Which models do you have? 

[C4 User]

41 minutes ago, tmj4 said:

Which models do you have? 

I have two of the M6800’s. Love them!