Switch from Ruckus to Eero?

[rf9000]

All.

 

Recently deployed six Ruckus APs (two 710s and four 610s) in a residential setting. Having troubles. Only the 710s show up and on unleased, the 610s are stuck in what looks like a constant updating firmware loop. Their status always says updating and then eventually goes to offline. Looks like they are constantly restarting. Called Ruckus and they will not give you a bit of help even though you are using their product. You must buy support from them in order for them to talk to you. I have really never encountered this before with any company, and frankly it really turns me off to Ruckus. I have been recommended by several to get the Eero pros. These have been removed from the Control4 blacklist and I have had several tell me they really never have an issue with them. Very reliable. Everything is basically hardwired in this home, so wifi will generally be for iphones, laptops, printing over air, stuff like that. There is 500mbps service to the home. Araknis 310 router. I know many will bash the Eeros because they really are not a dealer specific product, but I have been told they work great. I do have a question though, they seem to have the dealer Eero CI Pro and then the Eero Pro. From what I can tell they seem to be the exact same thing, just that the CI is the contractor version and as contractor you have access to the POE+ ceiling brackets?

[Double D]

We use Araknis 310 router with eero set to bridge mode as our main networking package.  It is a fantastic combo that works perfectly with C4.  You can become an eero dealer which gets you decent margin (especially when you eliminate almost all wasted time with network setup troubles) and special pricing on your demo system.  They have a dealer dashboard with cloud management of all of your clients.  They have pretty great free tech support.  Best of all, where you do not have wires, you can get a rock solid net work with a mix of wired and wireless access points wherever you need them.  

[Double D]

The POE ceiling brackets are only for the eero Pro5 for now.  Only available to dealers.

[lippavisual]

Talk about going from a Rolls Royce to a Toyota.

[Control4Savant]

31 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

Talk about going from a Rolls Royce to a Toyota.

100%. We all know I am not a Rukus guy but Eero is consumer grade networking at best and that's usually the beginning of peoples problems.  Eero Pro is just for their newest Tri-Band. If i remember correctly Eero also caps their mesh transfer speeds I think somewhere in the 300mbs but I would research that. Unifi Mesh or Orbi Pro are both very capable and fully configurable.

[msgreenf]

I mean if you have to pay for support, clearly you should ditch it. I have a data center full of cisco. Gotta pay smart net...must be junk 

[wnpublic]

Is the ruckus gear used? Every bit of used Wi-Fi kit I have ever purchased has turned out to be a POS. 
 

I have eeros in a small non-C4 rental house. They are not very performant, but never go down. 

[RAV]

To answer your question:

The Pro models have a third radio for the mesh.

Sounds like your 610 need a firmware flash to be on unleashed.

 

[mindedc1]

If you're a dealer there should be a local Channel SE that will help you get it up and running. I would call and ask who your TAM is and they will have an associated SE. A good attitude goes a long way with them. They like helping reseller that are going to learn from them and shield them from customer issues. If it's an actual issue you will need support and yes you have to pay. It does sound like the 610s are configured as zone flex and need to be flashed to unleashed. Did you get in to the cli?  There is pretty solid documentation on the products... there are no crazy bugs to the point where it won't work. Something logical is busted and you can fix it.

[ejn1]

11 hours ago, lippavisual said:

Talk about going from a Rolls Royce to a Toyota.

I think Toyota is being kind.

[ejn1]

9 hours ago, msgreenf said:

I mean if you have to pay for support, clearly you should ditch it. I have a data center full of cisco. Gotta pay smart net...must be junk 

If he bought new from an authorized dealer, then he would have enough support to get his system updated, up and running and stable.   He likely bought used so I would expect they wont sit there like a forum would and baby sit every step of the way.

Honestly,  I have 4 WAPs, a couple new, a couple used.   2 reflashed to Unleashed.   If you know what you are doing or can patiently watch a 5 min You tube video, its simple.  If not, its a perfect use case to have a dealer do it for you. 

[JR2]

17 hours ago, rf9000 said:

Only the 710s show up and on unleased, the 610s are stuck in what looks like a constant updating firmware loop

I would downgrade the master to firmware version 200.9.10.4.212. The latest release is not stable.

If this does not resolve your issue, then manually push 200.9.10.4.212 to all of your AP's and default them.  Then reconfigure your master and bring in (power up) the others one at a time.

 

As a side note if you are using an PoE switch it may not be supplying enough power to your AP's. 

Quote

Ruckus uses an extension to the LLDP protocol called LLDP-MED to manage PoE functionality in some of their APs.

These APs will go through two stages of power negotiation, hardware negotiation and protocol negotiation.

If the switch does not have this protocol enabled, the AP will go through hardware negotiation and negotiate properly using 802.11at.

When the AP tries to negotiate with the LLDP-MED protocol, it fails and reverts to using standard PoE (802.11af).

This can result in decreased performance from the wireless system.

 

[rf9000]

19 hours ago, msgreenf said:

I mean if you have to pay for support, clearly you should ditch it. I have a data center full of cisco. Gotta pay smart net...must be junk 

Not saying its junk at all. Just saying that every time there is an issue, I dont want to have to pay Ruckus. 

[rf9000]

12 hours ago, mindedc1 said:

If you're a dealer there should be a local Channel SE that will help you get it up and running. I would call and ask who your TAM is and they will have an associated SE. A good attitude goes a long way with them. They like helping reseller that are going to learn from them and shield them from customer issues. If it's an actual issue you will need support and yes you have to pay. It does sound like the 610s are configured as zone flex and need to be flashed to unleashed. Did you get in to the cli?  There is pretty solid documentation on the products... there are no crazy bugs to the point where it won't work. Something logical is busted and you can fix it.

They were all pre-flashed to unleased unless the flash didnt work

[rf9000]

5 hours ago, JR2 said:

I would downgrade the master to firmware version 200.9.10.4.212. The latest release is not stable.

If this does not resolve your issue, then manually push 200.9.10.4.212 to all of your AP's and default them.  Then reconfigure your master and bring in (power up) the others one at a time.

 

As a side note if you are using an PoE switch it may not be supplying enough power to your AP's. 

 

Thank you. I'm going to try the Eeros Pros and see how they go. I knew that most would bash them on here, but I also have some insight from another dealer who says they have never had issue with them whereas they have had issues with Packege, Unifi, etc. They even hate to admit it, but they say they just work. The Eero Pros can do up to gigabit speeds so I guess we will see how it goes. It also does solve the issue of the Ruckus APs looking so ugly, haha. many of these are ceiling mounted. I dont know, we will see

[msgreenf]

37 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

Thank you. I'm going to try the Eeros Pros and see how they go. I knew that most would bash them on here, but I also have some insight from another dealer who says they have never had issue with them whereas they have had issues with Packege, Unifi, etc. They even hate to admit it, but they say they just work. The Eero Pros can do up to gigabit speeds so I guess we will see how it goes. It also does solve the issue of the Ruckus APs looking so ugly, haha. many of these are ceiling mounted. I dont know, we will see

Totally agree Eero just works but it's not as performant as Ruckus which is enterprise grade and can carry many more simultaneous connections. 

I happen to like Eero - i have directed many friends and family members to buy them!  They love em.  But they also just want it to work and aren't going to complain that they aren't getting 600MB wifi

[rf9000]

1 minute ago, msgreenf said:

Totally agree Eero just works but it's not as performant as Ruckus which is enterprise grade and can carry many more simultaneous connections. 

I happen to like Eero - i have directed many friends and family members to buy them!  They love em.  But they also just want it to work and aren't going to complain that they aren't getting 600MB wifi

That is my only issue. Other than top speeds, they jump from AP to AP flawlessly, oly show one network name when searching for availbale networks, etc. These are the things I want, but I heard the speeds are a bit lacking. We have 500mbps service from internet provider. I seriously would really like to get the Unifi 6 LR APs, as they fir my needs perfectly, but of course those are not in stock

[msgreenf]

and # of max clients.

610 on Unleased can handle 512 clients per AP go up to 1300MB in 5GHZ

Eero Pro is 550MB tops and maxes at 128 clients.

Granted all the numbers are high, but i don't believe them. even at 50% both are high but you may only get realistically 200MB on wifi on Eero. 

 

Not saying that is bad at all but based on your other posts you are building for max performance

[msgreenf]

and edit: eero stated in there own documentation if any of those devices are heavily using (like streaming) don't expect more then 30 clients per AP.

Just goes to show you how inflated those #'s are

[rf9000]

1 minute ago, msgreenf said:

and # of max clients.

610 on Unleased can handle 512 clients per AP go up to 1300MB in 5GHZ

Eero Pro is 550MB tops and maxes at 128 clients.

Granted all the numbers are high, but i don't believe them. even at 50% both are high but you may only get realistically 200MB on wifi on Eero. 

 

Not saying that is bad at all but based on your other posts you are building for max performance

Yeah. The Eero Pro claims up to 574mbps on 2.4, 1202 mbps on 5ghz, and 2402 mbps on secondary 5ghz, but those numbers are inflated I think too

[rf9000]

Just now, rf9000 said:

Yeah. The Eero Pro claims up to 574mbps on 2.4, 1202 mbps on 5ghz, and 2402 mbps on secondary 5ghz, but those numbers are inflated I think too

 

1 minute ago, msgreenf said:

and edit: eero stated in there own documentation if any of those devices are heavily using (like streaming) don't expect more then 30 clients per AP.

Just goes to show you how inflated those #'s are

Yes, but will never have 30 cleints. EVERYTHING is hardwired, all TVS JoshAI, APs, etc. Literally will only have phones, laptops, over air printing, etc on Wifi. I really wish I could get the Unifi 6 LR units, but would those act as same as the Eeros for flawless AP to AP jumping, and one network name that automatically selects the best band to use?

[ejn1]

24 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

 

Yes, but will never have 30 cleints. EVERYTHING is hardwired, all TVS JoshAI, APs, etc. Literally will only have phones, laptops, over air printing, etc on Wifi. I really wish I could get the Unifi 6 LR units, but would those act as same as the Eeros for flawless AP to AP jumping, and one network name that automatically selects the best band to use?

I have one of the Unifi 6 Mesh I can sell you.  Basically brand new,  used it a couple of days before switching to Ruckus.   Been sold out for months in their EA store.  If you want to try Unifi 6, I can help you.     

[rf9000]

31 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

and edit: eero stated in there own documentation if any of those devices are heavily using (like streaming) don't expect more then 30 clients per AP.

Just goes to show you how inflated those #'s are

 Kinda want to "set them and forget them". They dont make the POE adapter yet for the Eero Pro 6 to mount on ceiling. So my plan was to get 3 of the Eero Pros and then three of the Eero Pro 6 models (these I can hide in cabinets without the mounts). May not get 500+mbps, but internet should be very reliable

[rf9000]

16 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

I have one of the Unifi 6 Mesh I can sell you.  Basically brand new,  used it a couple of days before switching to Ruckus.   Been sold out for months in their EA store.  If you want to try Unifi 6, I can help you.     

And I'm not set on them, if I could get six of the Unifi 6 Pros right now at $150 each, I would buy them immediately. Those are what I want but it could be two months yet until they are back and we want to move in around May 1.

[Control4Savant]

12 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

And I'm not set on them, if I could get six of the Unifi 6 Pros right now at $150 each, I would buy them immediately. Those are what I want but it could be two months yet until they are back and we want to move in around May 1.

I would buy three FlexHDs and not pro ceiling mounted before using that Eero if you are into Unifi. They have more universal 'bubble' output RF pattern similar to plug and play mesh repeaters like Eero. Network will be ready to go to WiFi6 models when they are more readily available. I know you expected it to be bashed on here but realize that some of are network techs only concerned about performance/reliability and don't hold brand loyalty.