Help and Feedback re: Getting Rid of Control4

[gmilt]

Hi all.  So here's the drill.  

--- Bought a house.  Had a few lights on Conrol4.  I figured I would just keep it even though my smart home needs and desires are pretty basic.  Had a well respected integrator out to the house.  We now have Control 4 hooked up to a three switch panel in front of the house.  A four switch panel that controls a finished-carriage house.  And a few other random switches in the house (backyard lights, etc.).  Plus 4 locks.  

--- The goal was to be able to: (1) easily control locks (set up a code for the dog walker...lock or unlock remotely with a tap...etc.); (2) link to Alexa so we can turn off back yard light -- for example -- with voice control; and (3) have a few simple scenes...like "lock the doors and turn off all outdoor lights and lights out in carriage house at xzy time."  

--- To their credit, they DID set this up.  But after multiple years, I have decided that Control4 is mind-blowingly crappy.  Maybe if you are doing much crazier stuff than I am, it has capabilities that boggle the mind in a good way.  But I look at this thing and say "the interface for when/then looks like something my teenager built for school" // "half the SUPER simple automations I set up will "break" and need to be fixed" // "one of the lights no longer can be changed by me and it says I need the dealer to make the change" // "the fact that adding or changing ANYTHING requires an integrator is just robbery and silly" // "you can't even CHANGE when/then stuff on the phone and iPad app" // and on and on and on

--- I compare this with a second home that we own and rent out.  Self-serve, super simple smart home stuff lets me control locks, security cameras, thermostat, even water valves.  And with WAY fewer errors.  With WAY better user interfaces.  And with zero need to pay a "professional" when I want to add something, change something, etc.

-- So...I'm out.  My only question for this group is how much of a nightmare it is to get RID of Control 4.  The locks are generic smart locks so I'm assuming I can connect them to another hub (z-wave or zigbee or whatever).  But what about these damn Control4 light switches?  Are those a total nightmare to replace with a more generic "smart switch" or is it something I can have an electrician do in a day, etc.?  

Curious to hear your thoughts.  I'm sure this is more of a "rah-rah Control4!" site but I can't be the only person who finds it an overpriced rip-off with crappy user interface technology.  : )

[msgreenf]

Sounds like you may not be current with your control4 versioning as OS3 is pretty nice. 

Neither here nor there. If they are Control4 wireless lighting and not panelized, which it sounds like it is, you can swap switches pretty easily to anything else

[ejn1]

36 minutes ago, gmilt said:

Hi all.  So here's the drill.  

--- Bought a house.  Had a few lights on Conrol4.  I figured I would just keep it even though my smart home needs and desires are pretty basic.  Had a well respected integrator out to the house.  We now have Control 4 hooked up to a three switch panel in front of the house.  A four switch panel that controls a finished-carriage house.  And a few other random switches in the house (backyard lights, etc.).  Plus 4 locks.  

--- The goal was to be able to: (1) easily control locks (set up a code for the dog walker...lock or unlock remotely with a tap...etc.); (2) link to Alexa so we can turn off back yard light -- for example -- with voice control; and (3) have a few simple scenes...like "lock the doors and turn off all outdoor lights and lights out in carriage house at xzy time."  

--- To their credit, they DID set this up.  But after multiple years, I have decided that Control4 is mind-blowingly crappy.  Maybe if you are doing much crazier stuff than I am, it has capabilities that boggle the mind in a good way.  But I look at this thing and say "the interface for when/then looks like something my teenager built for school" // "half the SUPER simple automations I set up will "break" and need to be fixed" // "one of the lights no longer can be changed by me and it says I need the dealer to make the change" // "the fact that adding or changing ANYTHING requires an integrator is just robbery and silly" // "you can't even CHANGE when/then stuff on the phone and iPad app" // and on and on and on

--- I compare this with a second home that we own and rent out.  Self-serve, super simple smart home stuff lets me control locks, security cameras, thermostat, even water valves.  And with WAY fewer errors.  With WAY better user interfaces.  And with zero need to pay a "professional" when I want to add something, change something, etc.

-- So...I'm out.  My only question for this group is how much of a nightmare it is to get RID of Control 4.  The locks are generic smart locks so I'm assuming I can connect them to another hub (z-wave or zigbee or whatever).  But what about these damn Control4 light switches?  Are those a total nightmare to replace with a more generic "smart switch" or is it something I can have an electrician do in a day, etc.?  

Curious to hear your thoughts.  I'm sure this is more of a "rah-rah Control4!" site but I can't be the only person who finds it an overpriced rip-off with crappy user interface technology.  : )

Maybe you can list all your gear on the For Sale tab on the site or PM me on your light switches.   If they are latest generation,  I will give you a price worthy of your opinion of them

[Time2Jet]

3 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

Maybe you can list all your gear on the For Sale tab on the site or PM me on your light switches.   If they are latest generation,  I will give you a price worthy of your opinion of them

Was thinking exactly the same thing @ejn1

@gmilt First, nice to sort of meet you. Second, why did you bother to come here and post?  (Because your 6th paragraph said you were "out".)?   Third, no one here is going to berate you for the simple fact that you don't like Control4, it's certainly not for everyone.  Fourth, frankly based on what you have described Control4 is completely overkill and the described automations probably would be better served by something far far far simpler.  I have ~250 smart devices in my home and I am not even close to burdening the Control4 platform. 

We all wish you the best and maybe we'll see you here again in the future.  Message me with what you want to unload, I'll likely buy it all.  

[ejn1]

Is it me or has there been a lot recent negative posts on C4 (which everyone is obviously entitled to do) but with no posting history and just one post and they are done?  I bet this guy doesn't even have a decora switch in his house let alone a Control4 home.

[OceanDad]

1 hour ago, gmilt said:

The locks are generic smart locks so I'm assuming I can connect them to another hub (z-wave or zigbee or whatever).

The locks are unlikely to be 'generic'.  They are probably zigbee pro, which is proprietary to C4.  I'll give you a few bucks for them instead of you sending them to landfill.

[istreich]

gmilt, I suggest you post a list of all the Control4 equipment you have and would like to get rid of. There is even a section on this site for Buy/Sell. Unless your equipment is really obsolete (and even that should not necessarily be an issue), forum members will reach out to buy it from you. Make a quick list with item types/reference and number of units. 

It is very likely (if not certain) that all your dimmers, switches, locks, ... are Control4 specific and can't be reused with other systems. At least not easily/out of the box and not cost effectively. Your best bet is to sell them all and use the proceeds to buy either dumb or smart devices compatible with the system you want. 

The good news is that you don't need an electrician to replace a Control4 dimmer/switch/outlet by a dumb one. It takes a few minutes. Take a picture of your wiring and replicate. Make sure you turn the power to the circuit off... Ditto for locks - there is a good chance there will be a similar non Control4 model available. Depending on the brand, you could even simply replace the communication card inside the unit. Tell us what brand/lock you have and we can help.

If you start by listing what you have in your Control4 install, I am sure a lot of members (including myself) will be happy to help you and tell you options you have and most likely offer to buy some parts at a fair price. 

This site has great members, always happy to help others especially those who have had unfortunate initial experiences with Control4. You will find help both to help you persist with Control4 or if you have made your mind, transition away from it. Just ask.

Good luck and you will find help on the site.

[wnpublic]

This wasn’t me. 

[Amr]

9 hours ago, gmilt said:

Hi all.  So here's the drill.  

--- Bought a house.  Had a few lights on Conrol4.  I figured I would just keep it even though my smart home needs and desires are pretty basic.  Had a well respected integrator out to the house.  We now have Control 4 hooked up to a three switch panel in front of the house.  A four switch panel that controls a finished-carriage house.  And a few other random switches in the house (backyard lights, etc.).  Plus 4 locks.  

--- The goal was to be able to: (1) easily control locks (set up a code for the dog walker...lock or unlock remotely with a tap...etc.); (2) link to Alexa so we can turn off back yard light -- for example -- with voice control; and (3) have a few simple scenes...like "lock the doors and turn off all outdoor lights and lights out in carriage house at xzy time."  

--- To their credit, they DID set this up.  But after multiple years, I have decided that Control4 is mind-blowingly crappy.  Maybe if you are doing much crazier stuff than I am, it has capabilities that boggle the mind in a good way.  But I look at this thing and say "the interface for when/then looks like something my teenager built for school" // "half the SUPER simple automations I set up will "break" and need to be fixed" // "one of the lights no longer can be changed by me and it says I need the dealer to make the change" // "the fact that adding or changing ANYTHING requires an integrator is just robbery and silly" // "you can't even CHANGE when/then stuff on the phone and iPad app" // and on and on and on

--- I compare this with a second home that we own and rent out.  Self-serve, super simple smart home stuff lets me control locks, security cameras, thermostat, even water valves.  And with WAY fewer errors.  With WAY better user interfaces.  And with zero need to pay a "professional" when I want to add something, change something, etc.

-- So...I'm out.  My only question for this group is how much of a nightmare it is to get RID of Control 4.  The locks are generic smart locks so I'm assuming I can connect them to another hub (z-wave or zigbee or whatever).  But what about these damn Control4 light switches?  Are those a total nightmare to replace with a more generic "smart switch" or is it something I can have an electrician do in a day, etc.?  

Curious to hear your thoughts.  I'm sure this is more of a "rah-rah Control4!" site but I can't be the only person who finds it an overpriced rip-off with crappy user interface technology.  : )

There is a section in this forum for buying and selling C4 and C4 related stuff, also eBay is another option, good luck  

[BraydonH]

By all means get rid of Control4 if you want.

Really just sounds like you need to update to OS3, and (sounds like you really want to tinker with things yourself) maybe get Composer Home Edition and you would probably be set.

When / Then is alright but Home Edition is better.

The C4 interface for locks is awesome, the interface for lighting is decent too. If those are your two main things then C4 on OS3 should work great.

[BXTR]

12 hours ago, ejn1 said:

Is it me or has there been a lot recent negative posts on C4 (which everyone is obviously entitled to do) but with no posting history and just one post and they are done?  I bet this guy doesn't even have a decora switch in his house let alone a Control4 home.

This exactly. There’s been more similar & super harsh posts like this in the past month than in the past year or two

In 11 years I have yet to have a single client ever say that the app stinks and it’s not easy to use. Quite the opposite actually and when we consolidate 10 or more smart home apps into 1, they’re extremely pleased

I feel that these negative posts are being fabricated by someone with an agenda of some sort OR if they’re genuine, the owner has more time than money to deal with a dozen apps and all the joy that comes with them 

[RAV]

13 hours ago, gmilt said:

Hi all.  So here's the drill. 

-- So...I'm out.  My only question for this group is how much of a nightmare it is to get RID of Control 4.  The locks are generic smart locks so I'm assuming I can connect them to another hub (z-wave or zigbee or whatever).  But what about these damn Control4 light switches?  Are those a total nightmare to replace with a more generic "smart switch" or is it something I can have an electrician do in a day, etc.?  

Curious to hear your thoughts.  I'm sure this is more of a "rah-rah Control4!" site but I can't be the only person who finds it an overpriced rip-off with crappy user interface technology.  : )

Odds are you'll never see this, and just came here to bash.

But, for the benefit of the doubt.

There's nothing unique about Control4 light switch wiring. Can be switched out for dumb switches or a DIY product of your choice. Frankly, if you're as skilled as you claim, you should have already discovered that with a simple Google search for their installation manual. But here you go.
https://www.control4.com/docs/product/wireless-adaptive-phase-dimmer/installation-guide-120v277v/english/revision/D/
https://fccid.io/R33C4DIM1Z/User-Manual/Exhibit-8b-1112938

The locks use a specific radio card in them, if you want to switch them to another system, you'll need to locate elsewhere the proper radio card.

[Control4Savant]

These comments are amazing.

"Welcome! We're a really great community full of friendly that would love to help except but since you bashed Control4 and don't like the system we think you are full of it because that cant possibly be the case and Control4 is perfect..."

 

[msgreenf]

Please don't generalize. That isn't everyone's attitude

[Control4Savant]

4 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Please don't generalize. That isn't everyone's attitude

I didn't single anyone out or quote... but it's more than just a little and happens regularly.

[videostorm]

16 hours ago, gmilt said:

 

--- I compare this with a second home that we own and rent out.  Self-serve, super simple smart home stuff lets me control locks, security cameras, thermostat, even water valves.  And with WAY fewer errors.  With WAY better user interfaces.  And with zero need to pay a "professional" when I want to add something, change something, etc.

 

What is the other system that you do like?

[ejn1]

1 hour ago, Control4Sucks said:

These comments are amazing.

"Welcome! We're a really great community full of friendly that would love to help except but since you bashed Control4 and don't like the system we think you are full of it because that cant possibly be the case and Control4 is perfect..."

 

My only point is that there have been a few more than normal of these "control4 sucks" type of posts recently made by someone with no other posts and then folks make a ton of comments most to help like in this thread and the person never responds again.   Just making an observation that it smells funny.     

[RAV]

Suggestion.

The reality is there's a handful of people on these boards regularly.
If as a group, it becomes practice, that the first person asks for more info and everybody else stays silent, and if the OP goes silent, than let the thread die. If they respond, then others chime in.

[Control4Savant]

2 hours ago, ejn1 said:

My only point is that there have been a few more than normal of these "control4 sucks" type of posts recently made by someone with no other posts and then folks make a ton of comments most to help like in this thread and the person never responds again.   Just making an observation that it smells funny.     

Yes there have been more posts lately but that alway seems to come in spirts. I find it unlikely that someone wants to get on a random user form and spend time writing out paragraphs of somewhat appropriate complaints when they are in no way associated with a system or the product. I am sure it does happen but again, lets not say how welcoming and supportive a group is while flaming the OPs very existence on the site.  You will also see more and more of this as "control4 sucks" is a new problem, not 10 years ago when it didn't... Umbrella ownership, 15 year old .NET software, 10 year old UI design and poorly developed hardware are all going to damage the brand. 

[BXTR]

4 hours ago, videostorm said:

What is the other system that you do like?

Also curious what the other platform is

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, Control4Sucks said:

I am sure it does happen but again, lets not say how welcoming and supportive a group is while flaming the OPs very existence on the site.  You will also see more and more of this as "control4 sucks" is a new problem, not 10 years ago when it didn't... Umbrella ownership, 15 year old .NET software, 10 year old UI design and poorly developed hardware are all going to damage the brand. 

no one here really flamed the OP.  a few gave suggestions on modest changes like OS upgrades, how/what to look for to swap in dumb switches, etc.  A few even suggested they list their equipment in the for sale section.  

It is odd when someone comes to a forum, no posts, complains and kinda asks for some ideas/feedback and then never returns.  I am not saying there aren't any unhappy C4 customers - it just seems odd not to return to your post when the post clearly is asking for advice on removing the system - and several answers/options were given without flaming the OP.

 

And it is funny, over on AVS Forum I see plenty of DIY posts with people complaining or asking for help on their DIY set ups - so yeah, the more people get into tech - be it CI or DYI, there will be more "I am having trouble" posts.  It is just how %/math works.

[Andrew luecke]

It will of course be bias here, but as others have mentioned, OS3 is a whole different ballgame, and there is a huge amount of development at Control4 that seems to be happening in the background too. 

You can use Composer Home for a lot of changes too without an installer. The business model makes a lot of sense for Premium residential / commercial

 

2 hours ago, Control4Sucks said:

Yes there have been more posts lately but that alway seems to come in spirts. I find it unlikely that someone wants to get on a random user form and spend time writing out paragraphs of somewhat appropriate complaints when they are in no way associated with a system or the product. I am sure it does happen but again, lets not say how welcoming and supportive a group is while flaming the OPs very existence on the site.  You will also see more and more of this as "control4 sucks" is a new problem, not 10 years ago when it didn't... Umbrella ownership, 15 year old .NET software, 10 year old UI design and poorly developed hardware are all going to damage the brand. 

What would you change?

There's been lots of recent major improvements including OS3. Also, which poorly developed hardware specifically? 

[OceanDad]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

And it is funny, over on AVS Forum I see plenty of DIY posts with people complaining or asking for help on their DIY set ups - so yeah, the more people get into tech - be it CI or DYI, there will be more "I am having trouble" posts.  It is just how %/math works.

Absolutely.  And the deeper that people get in, the more they see the limitations, whatever the system or hardware.  We've all seen expensive systems badly spec'd/installed/programmed. But it's also true that most people don't know what they really want until they see it.  Most supposedly 'smart' homes are still configured for control, not for automation.  I've lost count of the number of times that friends have asked me why their Ring doorbell/Sonos/Apple TV/expensive motorized shades etc don't seamlessly do some of the things that my home does.  When they see it, they want it.

It's a shame when you see expensive Control4 installs that are being used to turn on one TV and a few lights.  It does none of us any favors, least of all the person who paid the bill for an over specified or badly communicated project.

[ntlord]

C4 is honestly only worth it if you are going to integrate a ton of stuff in your house. Yes, the app is not a slick as other apps. And yes, it sucks big time that it is dealer only. And yes, the NEEO is a joke and the SR260 is ugly as shit. 
 

But it is freaking awesome that everything can be accessed from a single app. I can control everything from my lights, garage door, locks, TVs, and everything else in my house—from a single app. There are just not that many other solutions out there that have the wide support of devices like C4.

The only thing that even comes close in terms of integration is some of the open source products like Home Assistant. But good luck trying to find a remote control that works with that now that Logitech is done with Harmony. 
 

If you want just a few things integrated, choose a different product.

[CSS]

We have a "small" installation and while its with dated hardware, I don't think we could replace its functionality with anything else for a reasonable amount of money.

We have a single home theater room (projector, bluray, cable box, roku, 5.1 receiver) run from a single HC250/RC250.  Running 2.10.6.  Planning on adding C4 light control in that room only at some point.   We do have a second set of speakers upstairs on the receivers' Zone 2, but we only use that thru phone control.

When I look at other options that *could* control all those devices from a single remote for $500-$1000, the closest thing is a Harmony Hub remote, but thats all via IR.   I like the bidirectional communication that Control4 has with thousands of pieces of hardware.    Drivers gallore.  And C4 has HE to allow me to make some changes, which other "pro" systems don't offer at all.

C4 isn't perfect and I'm running on an older version but it does what we need it to do.  Single RF remote integration for a very high WAF in the home theater.    All componets hidden in an equipment room makes it a nice clean install.

For some of our other "smart home" devices (outside lights, monitoring freezer doors) we use Smartthings.    Using a smart home type interface for the home theater would be a mess.  Zwave switches/outlets work fine for what we need them to do in those cases.   

Good luck, OP!