tcwalker5 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I'm curious what most installers do regarding patch panels or direct connect home runs to switches. I requested that every jack in every room be hot for data. So it is a 1:1 cable to switch port ratio. My installer decided to bring the home run directly to the switch. But after reading more about this, I feel like they should have used a patch panel. What is the consensus among installers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstafford388 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 If we were making every data port live in a home we would put a network switch in the structure panel and wire the jacks directly into the switch. If they went to a rack we would probably still go directly to a rackmount switch unless it was a commercial environment where things may be moved around often. That's really the only time we utilize patch panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I'm in the other camp. Patch Panels for any CAT wire, except for when they are being used for HDBT video distribution, then they are direct to matrix. Makes servicing much more efficient/easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Consider this, a patch panel is used for flexibility and simplifying cable management. In office environments, where there are 100s of terminations and they go to different switches (voice, data, poe, etc) or move between switches for various reasons, it's an absolute must. But if you have a home and all the runs are the same (ie no separation of voice and data or POE) and they all terminate on the same switch, then there's no reason to use the patch panel (other than cabling looks cool). It also has the benefit of saving a lot of money, and less breaks in the cable (less signal loss). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Solid wire was designed to be fixed to a solid surface (wall), and punched down to a patch panel, then stranded wire patch cables used to connect to the networking gear, so changes in the patches don't stress the solid wire, which is more prone to breakage when frequently moved. In real life, that is not much of an issue, and as mentioned above, if you are lighting up all of them, going direct to the switch probably isn't that big a deal (there isn't frequent movement of the cables, where the stranded wire would be better). In my house, I don't light up all jacks, so labelled punchdowns are where it's at. Need to light up a particular run? Plug in a patch. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff W Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 I know this response is late, but wanted to share my experience/feedback. My opinion, if it's a small network, no automation, no AV rack. The client just wants a professional network installation there is two options. Install the switch into a wall mounted shelving system. Wiring everything directly into the switch with a service loop bundled behind the equipment. We're talking approx 10-12 outlets, maybe some POE for access points is ok. Ideal for rear facing network equipment. Or if you have front facing network equipment, you can install a patch panel. I prefer non punch down panels and individual jacks because it's easier to troubleshoot. it's troublesome to re-configure wire in large bundles on punch down panels. You don't want to pop 1 conductor of a random wire on a punch down panel. However, if you're doing a small - large home automation system, have an AV rack, and plan on using automation long term, I HIGHLY recommend going with a patch panel. During the course of time (18 years for my personal home) equipment changes. If you installed something at the bottom of the rack, re-wire and install a replacement item at the top of the rack you're now creating additional work and more places where things go wrong. It sucks to have to make jumpers or extend wires inside the AV rack. After a while it just gets messy. After time, it's hard to keep track of what's what. I had to change my system out numerous times. Prior to going with a patch panel it always sucked changing stuff out and I dreaded having to make large changes. Now, it's much, much easier. We wire from the patch panels into the AV racks for a super clean look. Changing out or adding wires is much easier this way. A large part of our business is doing what we call 'take over jobs' in our industry. I present exhibit A, B, C and D. A= A small wall mounted shelf with rear facing network equipment. @RyanE will probably approve of the network switches. B = Our standard Patch panels for our clients. We make every connection live for customer ease. C = Take over job and completed patch panel. D = Not our work, this is what can happen when things get out of control. PS. I hope it uploads in the correct order heh. I'm not taking credit for the messy work. EDIT: First time uploading to these forums... I was hoping it would upload thumbnails, but nope. Super big pictures.. sorry everyone tcwalker5 and Köhler Medientechnik 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 Schweet. I definitely do approve. Sadly, my home setup looks a bit more like the 'Before' setup... RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uddinz Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 I need to find someone inn the Chicago area that can do this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 send them to NJ when you find someone good to pretty things up. If we had a "worst rack" post/poll I bet I am in the top 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff W Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 If it wasn't a complete pain in the butt to travel internationally with tools, I'd fly down there and fix them. We do a lot of take overs and the clients absolutely love the results! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, Jeff W said: If it wasn't a complete pain in the butt to travel internationally with tools, I'd fly down there and fix them. We do a lot of take overs and the clients absolutely love the results! I have cable cutters, crimpers, testing tools, etc. Doesn’t mean I know how to use them well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control4Savant Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 On 8/25/2021 at 8:19 PM, uddinz said: I need to find someone inn the Chicago area that can do this! PM me if you are serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Major cable porn on the after photo! Mine is like the before, but 10X worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff W Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 18 hours ago, zaphod said: Major cable porn on the after photo! Mine is like the before, but 10X worse That's ok Zaphod, we won't hold that against you . Our patch panels and AV racks are the accumulation of 13+ years in the industry. We are continuously trying to improve each one we do. We even custom make panels and equipment to achieve our vision. If you'd like to check out more of our work, I welcome you to check out our Instagram page. EVS Instagram Page Account = EVScalgary Köhler Medientechnik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 I bought a used large rack (45U) on wheels that I have started to use to hold my equipment. My rack is one of those ones with doors, but I have taken off the door and the back and side panels as I don't need them as it is in the "server room" in my basement. Currently I have about a dozen ethernet terminals terminated in keystone jacks. I will be running more ethernet cables and I am trying to figure out whether to use a patch panel or keep them as "pig-tails". If I use a patch panel the next question is whether to put the patch panel on the rack, or mount it permanently on the wall. If on the rack then I will need to leave a loop (or two) so that I can move the rack around a bit. One of the annoying things about a rack is that you need a lot of space since you generally need access to both the front and the back of the rack. For things like patch panels and network switches you normally need front access, but for C4 amps, controllers, AVRs, rack mounted PCs, etc, you need rear access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dueport Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 2:50 PM, zaphod said: I bought a used large rack (45U) on wheels that I have started to use to hold my equipment. My rack is one of those ones with doors, but I have taken off the door and the back and side panels as I don't need them as it is in the "server room" in my basement. Currently I have about a dozen ethernet terminals terminated in keystone jacks. I will be running more ethernet cables and I am trying to figure out whether to use a patch panel or keep them as "pig-tails". If I use a patch panel the next question is whether to put the patch panel on the rack, or mount it permanently on the wall. If on the rack then I will need to leave a loop (or two) so that I can move the rack around a bit. One of the annoying things about a rack is that you need a lot of space since you generally need access to both the front and the back of the rack. For things like patch panels and network switches you normally need front access, but for C4 amps, controllers, AVRs, rack mounted PCs, etc, you need rear access. Very cool - I have this exact project on my short list when I have a little time. I've read that a lot of installers put the run into a patch panel on the wall (since that doesn't move) and then do a patch cord from there up and back down into the rack (with room to move the rack like you noted). That's how I plan to do it when I eventually do anyway - good luck - post some pictures when you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 On 8/29/2021 at 7:41 PM, Control4Savant said: PM me if you are serious. Are you in the Chicago area? Always looking for someone to partner with that is a craftsperson and cable porn is an art. Many of the folks I work with want this level of execution and its not my specialty . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 @Jeff W - Looking at your pictures more closely I noticed that you also did a patch panel of sorts for speaking wiring. Can you explained what you used for this and why you chose it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, zaphod said: @Jeff W - Looking at your pictures more closely I noticed that you also did a patch panel of sorts for speaking wiring. Can you explained what you used for this and why you chose it? No doubt for the same reason, to clean up a terrible mess. Personally I like these, which look similar, but splits it up nicely by zone/stereo pair: https://www.alzatex.com/ktph4a0/ There's also options for keystone speaker connectors, including space savers like these: https://www.amazon.ca/RiteAV-Speaker-Spring-Keystone-Plates/dp/B098YSJJ61/ref=dp_prsubs_2?pd_rd_i=B098YSJJ61&psc=1 Which would fit in any keystone rack panel. But I prefer phoenix connectors for this myself, as they're screw-down vs pressure clips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 On 8/25/2021 at 5:57 PM, Jeff W said: A large part of our business is doing what we call 'take over jobs' in our industry. We get a fair number as well - just wish everyone was willing to pay for getting it done as nicely as the one's your showing there All to often the line is something like: "can't you just plan a guy for a day to clean this up for me, using what I have" Jeff W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff W Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 @zaphod We custom make those panels. Cy is correct, one of the main reasons we use it is because it does help clean up the wires a lot. There are 1u banana jack panels that are out there. The problem we found with those, 1U = 6 zones. Now a days, people have 8, 12, 16, 24 audio zones. There was too much space being used by 1u banana jack panel audio zones in these situations. It wasn't efficient enough for my needs/wants. So I custom designed these panels. These panels are highly customizable when it comes to the speaker configuration. They are easy to install / to do maintenance on. It was a win/win for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 yeah the single banana ones are wasted space for sure. The ones I linked at least is a speaker per keystone at least (vs two keeystones per speaker) so a 24 space, 1U rack keystone plate at least does 12 zones. Prefer the 8-zone phoenix I linked over that though (or Jeff's custom one, same amount of zones on a 1U) - 12zones/24 speakers in a single U tends to get messy to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff W Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 The custom ones we designed can handle up to 16 zones. What's not pictured is a cable management bar that holds the wires in place for each patch panel shown (it's installed on the back side). It keeps everything super clean and easy to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dueport Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 I’ve seen integrators use speakon connectors for speaker patch panels. These look nice too - any thoughts on these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Köhler Medientechnik Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Dueport said: I’ve seen integrators use speakon connectors for speaker patch panels. These look nice too - any thoughts on these? Yes, i like these a lot. Our home cinema speaker come with Speakon connectors by default. Rock solid and they are locked when connected. However, on the rack side, they need quite some space so we usually wire them directly into the amps without a patch panel. Dueport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.