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Dam-it, Moen Flo, other?


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I've read all the threads and comments I could find on this topic, but before finalizing my purchase, wanted to make sure I had as much current information as possible.

I am wanting to be able to turn the water to my home on and off as needed.  For example, when going on Vacation, I would prefer the water to be turned off, but this creates problems with my wife running her timed irrigation for a flower garden she has.  With Control4, and an appropriate device, I can meet both goals.

I'll likely also want a few remote sensors for when we're at home, with the valve also having the ability to turn the water off automatically if it detects leaks as well.

I want Control4 integration to be flexible, versatile, and reliable.

Moen Flo seems well respected, but I've read conflicting information about the status of the Cinegration driver.

I'm currently leaning toward Dam-it (getting the starter kit with the actuator, ball valve, and 3 sensors), which has a free Control4 driver.  It also seems to get good reviews by posters here.  The fact that it is available via Control4 itself seems to be a good thing.

Any other viable options to consider that would meet my needs?  I'd prefer to keep things as simple as possible, avoiding more complicated 3rd party hardware and integration.

Any suggestions, experiences, facts that I might be overlooking, relative strengths and weaknesses of the various options, will be appreciated.

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Appreciate the replies.  I do remember that option mentioned.

What does it have or do, or do better, than Dam-it?  In other words, on what basis would I choose leaksmart over Dam-it (or Moen Flo)?

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So my moenflo and rachio is now working as planned. 

Both have c4 drivers and I put the flo to sleep when the irrigation runs. 

I'll probably get smarter with the programing later. Capture flo status as a variable and then return to original status after irrigation runs. 

Also with lights or security you can set flo to away when security or motion or other devices do the same.  If front door locked and motion sensors detect no motion for 24 h put flo to away. 

When door unlocked put flo to home.

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Good to know about the Cinegration driver, so thanks for that.

So it seems that all 3 - Dam-it, Leaksmart, and Moen Flo - all have Control4 Drivers, and will apparently meet my needs as I have defined them.  My question is therefore on what basis would I choose one over the other?  What are the major differences, advantages/disadvantages, in terms of functionality, reliability, cost, ease of installation or setup, or other factors?

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7 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Good to know about the Cinegration driver, so thanks for that.

So it seems that all 3 - Dam-it, Leaksmart, and Moen Flo - all have Control4 Drivers, and will apparently meet my needs as I have defined them.  My question is therefore on what basis would I choose one over the other?  What are the major differences, advantages/disadvantages, in terms of functionality, reliability, cost, ease of installation or setup, or other factors?

My understanding is that the Moen Flo has more sensors in it (flow, pressure, temp) and they say that’s paired with AI to provide accurate detection of water leaks anywhere in the system including places where you can’t place traditional leak sensors.  I don’t have Flo yet but that’s what I’ve heard in podcast interviews etc.  The other two seem to pair point sensors with a valve to shut off if those sensors detect a leak (the Leaksmart seems to also have flow detection sensor but not sure if that’s used for leak detection too).  Currently I have leak sensors throughout integrated to C4 from security system paired with a valve integrated with C4.  This is nice because the sensors are monitored but I’d like to pair it with Flo to more comprehensively monitor the plumbing since a leak arising in an area not covered by a traditional leak sensor would not be caught.  Hope that’s helpful I’m sure others have more details too

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Appreciate the additional replies.

As best I can currently determine, all 3, or at least the highest models of each, do include water monitoring to detect leaks, and do not require external sensors for this function.  Obviously, external sensors can enhance and better locate leaks, but it doesn't seem like they're required for basic leak detection for any of them.  But if this isn't correct, please advise.

I'm getting the impression that all are pretty good, and owners of each are satisfied with their performance.  So perhaps there's no clear 'winner' in this category?

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2 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Appreciate the additional replies.

As best I can currently determine, all 3, or at least the highest models of each, do include water monitoring to detect leaks, and do not require external sensors for this function.  Obviously, external sensors can enhance and better locate leaks, but it doesn't seem like they're required for basic leak detection for any of them.  But if this isn't correct, please advise.

I'm getting the impression that all are pretty good, and owners of each are satisfied with their performance.  So perhaps there's no clear 'winner' in this category?

Sensors react MUCH quicker than flow monitoring. Best to have both.

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Oh, I agree RAV.  I was just trying to address the question of whether or not Sensors were *required* for any of these 3 products in order to react to leaks.  Some posts suggested that they were required, but as best I can determine, each brand had a product that can do this without Sensors.  In other words, the 3 brands are the same in this regard, and this factor can't be used to differentiate between them, or choose one above the other on that basis.

But whichever I get, I'll definitely include a few Sensors to optimize leak detection and response.

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We spec the Flo by Moen because of the UI experience, analytics and detection capabilities.  Turning off water via sensors is easy and there are many products that do this on the market...   What Flo offers is analytics of usage... The others can monitor flow rate/pressure, I just haven't seen the level of detail that an installed Flo can provide by another company.  In my house, Flo has helped me refine my usage of water which is a layer of the smart home that was in desperate need of an update.  I get a weekly water report of how many gallons of water my sprinklers vs my house use.  This data can help you decide future updates because you now have a baseline of water usage in the home.  

On the sensors. What I've found most interesting is the Flo is too sensitive at first and takes some dialing in...  For more discrete protection the Flo has their own brand of sensors that connect via wifi.  You can also use any Control4 connected water sensor as well and program 'when water detected'... turn off water.  We used to do dammit/c&s and switched to Flo.  We still spec 10 water sensors from Dammit as added protection.  Note: Make sure to use the battery agent with those Dammit water sensors.  They go fast.

On Control4 integration.  Dammit is a zigbee device so that's a nice feature and is purely local.  I believe leaksmart is local IP.  Flo is CLOUD.  This does have it's disadvantages, however, I was told by Flo that the unit will still shut off the water if it detects a leak even without the cloud connected.  A cool feature of Control4 integration is the ability to change the modes, location based or device based, from Home/Away/Sleep.  Sleep is a mute state where the unit logs data but will not shut off water or notify.  Using Control4 homeowners using ComposerHome or dealers can craft Sleep times if the unit is alerting incorrectly. The earlier example of Rachio tells C4 sprinklers running... Flo set device (Sprinkler Shutoff) to Sleep is a perfect example of this.  Changing the mode is what really brings to life the detection in Flo too.  A surge of 6 gallons for example when nobody is there would be enough for the unit to respond/take action?  

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1 hour ago, Don Cohen said:

Oh, I agree RAV.  I was just trying to address the question of whether or not Sensors were *required* for any of these 3 products in order to react to leaks.  Some posts suggested that they were required, but as best I can determine, each brand had a product that can do this without Sensors.  In other words, the 3 brands are the same in this regard, and this factor can't be used to differentiate between them, or choose one above the other on that basis.

But whichever I get, I'll definitely include a few Sensors to optimize leak detection and response.

@Cinegration that’s good feedback I couldn’t tell from the websites if Dam-it and Leaksmart could detect without the sensors

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@Cinegration - many thanks for your very informative posts.  I'm not sure I need/want that level of water analysis, for our relatively simple empty-nest needs, but I have to admit that is pretty cool to be able to get that level of detail.

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Yeah :)   It can be overwhelming at first glance but you never know when you will need it ;). I’ve been able to fix a toilet running, bad backflow and running faucets.   we’ve come to really enjoy a better integrated smart home and the water element was a large part of that
:)

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On 6/17/2021 at 8:07 PM, Cinegration said:

Flo uses pressure and flowrate to detect a leak AND can use external sensors.

Here's two screenshots of their app.  This level of detail won us over.

IMG_4666 4.png

My understanding is there's a subscription fee from Flo for that, correct?

 

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Current Flo By Moen user here and I think it works great! 

I do not pay for the advanced app features as the basic tells more than enough information.

The Flo has alerted of running toilets numerous occasions (kids!!) and had shut the water off!

Their service is really cool too, if it senses abnormal water usage, it first sends you a push notification to your phone, if you don't respond immediately, their service calls you and lets you know of the abnormal usage, if you don't answer the call, it turns your water off automatically.

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I've been reading DAM-it's documentation more closely, and my impression is now that leak detection is dependent on having external sensors in place.  They don't seem to describe any monitoring function in the valve itself - just the ability to manually shut it or open it, or have this done automatically, triggered by what the sensors detect.

I have emailed them to confirm this, and determine if I'm missing something.

If this turns out to be the case, then I'll be leaning more heavily toward Moen Flo, based on all the comments and experience here, as well as taking a closer look at LeakSmart..

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