Dam-it, Moen Flo, other?

[Don Cohen]

DAM-it confirmed that the Valve itself is not 'smart' and their system relies on the external sensors to detect leaks.  I lost interest after discovering that.  I have an email in to LeakSmart, but no reply yet.

Wanting to get this done, I happened to find the Moen Flo on sale at Crutchfield yesterday, so picked up the Valve and a set of 3 Sensors for $450.  Should be here in a couple of days.  I'm now looking for a Plumber to get everything installed.

And I'm glad the Cinegration C4 Driver is now up and running, so look forward to having all this in place shortly.

[cdepaola]

I'm curious what folks are doing with the Moen Driver that isn't already being done automatically or can't be done with the Moen app?  I've found this device to be similar to a thermostat, they generally are set-it-and-forget-it type devices. 

 

[South Africa C4 user]

6 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

I'm curious what folks are doing with the Moen Driver that isn't already being done automatically or can't be done with the Moen app?  I've found this device to be similar to a thermostat, they generally are set-it-and-forget-it type devices. 

 

I use the driver for better (more customised) reporting and to turn council water off when my irrigation is running (as my borehole / well) kicks in automatically when there is no water pressure from council.  I also use it to turn all of my keypad backlights blue when there is a water outage (which happens once a month or so where we live) so that everyone know we are running on borehole water and I know to check, after a few hours of no water, to make sure there is no other fault.

[South Africa C4 user]

2 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

I use the driver for better (more customised) reporting and to turn council water off when my irrigation is running (as my borehole / well) kicks in automatically when there is no water pressure from council.  I also use it to turn all of my keypad backlights blue when there is a water outage (which happens once a month or so where we live) so that everyone know we are running on borehole water and I know to check, after a few hours of no water, to make sure there is no other fault.

I also have Control4 check once a day if a valve is closed (has shut-off automatically) and alert me… I have been known to miss the Flo message and at least this means that I will be alerted daily of such an issue.  As I have 8 of these valves (between my holiday home and main residence) and won’t necessarily notice an issue, this is quite useful in my setup.

[eggzlot]

Flo is onsale

https://meetflo.com/products/smart-water-shutoff

[Don Cohen]

39 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Flo is onsale

https://meetflo.com/products/smart-water-shutoff

Interesting.  That's the same price that Crutchfield had for the Valve for a couple of days (sale no longer active).  Moen still has the 3-pack of sensors for $129.99; Crutchfield had it at $99.99 for those 2 days.  Looks like I really lucked out!

UPS has it scheduled for delivery today, and the plumber is coming Monday.  Looking forward to getting this all set up.

[RAV]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

Flo is onsale

https://meetflo.com/products/smart-water-shutoff

Thanks for the heads-up.

Flo also has a referral program, not sure if they'll combine with the sale price, but 20% maybe, and maybe a referral fee to me.

https://fbuy.io/flo/roberts4

[Dueport]

On 6/23/2021 at 9:47 AM, RAV said:

Thanks for the heads-up.

Flo also has a referral program, not sure if they'll combine with the sale price, but 20% maybe, and maybe a referral fee to me.

https://fbuy.io/flo/roberts4

Thank you @eggzlot for the heads up on this sale - same price as Amazon prime day (after tax added there) and I missed that sale so was able to finally pick it up using this link @RAV - kept it at the advertised price but maybe you’ll get a referral fee hopefully. Looking forward to finally adding this to the house. 

[Don Cohen]

Just to follow-up here, my plumber installed the Moen Flo yesterday, I installed and configured the Flo App, and everything seems to be working well.  I added the Cinegration Driver, which also seems to be working just fine.  I also placed the 3 sensors I had in appropriate locations around the house.

The only problem I'm having is getting enough of a WiFi signal to the Flo, which is in my crawlspace.  I repositioned a WAP to a closer location, which helped, but I'm still getting 2 bars, sometimes 3.  For this type of device I want a more solid signal for reliability, so I just ordered a TP-Link Powerline Kit, where the 2nd device will generate a WiFi signal.  I can plug that into the light socket in the crawl space where the Flo adapter gets its power, and hopefully this will get me a really strong signal and connection.  I realize the Powerline doesn't support particularly high bandwidth, but since this will only be used for the Flo, and since I can't imagine it needs a big data pipe, I think this should work well.

I created some programming for when we're on vacation, and my wife wants the drip irrigator she has in our yard to work, to turn the water on for the hour or so she wants, morning and night, and then turn off again.

I appreciate the recommendations and information here, as it looks like this should work out well, and meet my needs.

[dinom]

I ordered my Flo directly from Moen last Friday, but hasn’t shipped yet.  Hopefully soon, but not sure why it’s taking so long. 

[Don Cohen]

Hope it comes soon, dinom.

For those of you who have the Moen Flo Shutoff Valve, and using the Cinegration Driver, it seems to me that for the various alerts and warnings, monitoring and such, there would be duplication of function doing this within Control4, since the Flo App already does this.  There might be more 'granularity' with the Cinegration Driver, but it seems the basics are covered by the Flo App fairly well.

I love that I can programatically control the Shutoff Valve with Control4, which is the main reason I went with this system, and this seems to work quite well.  But for those who have had this setup in use for a longer time, I am curious to know what you use Control4 and Cinegration to do, independent of what the Flo App provides?  Options may occur to me as time goes on, but I'd be interested to hear how others utilize the Driver and Control4 in your homes.

[Neo1738]

2 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Hope it comes soon, dinom.

For those of you who have the Moen Flo Shutoff Valve, and using the Cinegration Driver, it seems to me that for the various alerts and warnings, monitoring and such, there would be duplication of function doing this within Control4, since the Flo App already does this.  There might be more 'granularity' with the Cinegration Driver, but it seems the basics are covered by the Flo App fairly well.

I love that I can programatically control the Shutoff Valve with Control4, which is the main reason I went with this system, and this seems to work quite well.  But for those who have had this setup in use for a longer time, I am curious to know what you use Control4 and Cinegration to do, independent of what the Flo App provides?  Options may occur to me as time goes on, but I'd be interested to hear how others utilize the Driver and Control4 in your homes.

Can always have a timer for like 10 seconds and have it check if flow is off, if not shut valve use C4 as a backup. But yes sounds slightly redundant. 

[South Africa C4 user]

2 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Hope it comes soon, dinom.

For those of you who have the Moen Flo Shutoff Valve, and using the Cinegration Driver, it seems to me that for the various alerts and warnings, monitoring and such, there would be duplication of function doing this within Control4, since the Flo App already does this.  There might be more 'granularity' with the Cinegration Driver, but it seems the basics are covered by the Flo App fairly well.

I love that I can programatically control the Shutoff Valve with Control4, which is the main reason I went with this system, and this seems to work quite well.  But for those who have had this setup in use for a longer time, I am curious to know what you use Control4 and Cinegration to do, independent of what the Flo App provides?  Options may occur to me as time goes on, but I'd be interested to hear how others utilize the Driver and Control4 in your homes.

I’ve quoted my main uses further up in the thread. One other significant use for me is that I have linked the Cinegration driver to the Janus Technology BMS driver which gives me a separate dashboard on my iPad or via a URL on my Touchscreens which combines water reporting graphs, electricity reporting graphs, aircon reporting, underfloor heating reporting, pool pump reporting, temperature reporting and various  other adhoc graphs (e.g. when garage doors were open and closed throughout the day)…

[Dueport]

3 hours ago, dinom said:

I ordered my Flo directly from Moen last Friday, but hasn’t shipped yet.  Hopefully soon, but not sure why it’s taking so long. 

I’m in the same boat

3 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

Hope it comes soon, dinom.

For those of you who have the Moen Flo Shutoff Valve, and using the Cinegration Driver, it seems to me that for the various alerts and warnings, monitoring and such, there would be duplication of function doing this within Control4, since the Flo App already does this.  There might be more 'granularity' with the Cinegration Driver, but it seems the basics are covered by the Flo App fairly well.

I love that I can programatically control the Shutoff Valve with Control4, which is the main reason I went with this system, and this seems to work quite well.  But for those who have had this setup in use for a longer time, I am curious to know what you use Control4 and Cinegration to do, independent of what the Flo App provides?  Options may occur to me as time goes on, but I'd be interested to hear how others utilize the Driver and Control4 in your homes.

Integration with alarm system leak sensors (Flo, Honeywell system will both be integrated with C4).  Automatic shutoff of Flo alerts when the pool is being filled (Hayward OmniHub, Flo will both be integrated with C4).  Announcement over speakers if the water is shutoff by Flo.  View of Flo status on TS.  That’s the current plan - probably will find more uses….

[Don Cohen]

I appreciate the good ideas on programming.

The TP-Link powerline devices came in this morning, and I was able to get everything set up and secured, with the WiFi piece in my crawlspace.  Flo App shows a solid 4 bars, and with my phone shows 25mbps bandwidth, so I think I should be good to go here.  I don't know if the somewhat more humid conditions under there, with more temperature fluctuations than within the house, will prematurely age it, but hopefully it should last a while.  It's a cheap fix if it needs to be replaced down the road.  Got both pieces for $80.

The Flo is still in "learning" phase, but it will be interesting to see its analysis once it has enough data.  Overall I'm pretty happy with this addition.

[ashwinmj]

I read all comments on this thread, and I plan to buy the Moen Flo. I already have what I think is a very similar product - the Grohe Sense. It doesn't have a Control4 driver though, and that's why I'm thinking of changing it to the Flo. 

I wanted to make sure the Moen Flo does what the Grohe Sense does for me now, before I make this change. I don't plan to buy and Moen sensors though. Without additional external sensors and just the Flo valve, does the Flo automatically detect slow leaks or a pipe break and turn off the water supply by itself?

The reason I don't plan to buy any sensors from Moen is that I already have water leak sensors connected to my DSC security system (which is integrated with C4 via it's driver), so any leak is known in C4. I could use this info to turn off the Flo via C4. Is there any disadvantage of doing this as opposed to using Moen's external sensors? 

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Don Cohen]

31 minutes ago, ashwinmj said:

I read all comments on this thread, and I plan to buy the Moen Flo. I already have what I think is a very similar product - the Grohe Sense. It doesn't have a Control4 driver though, and that's why I'm thinking of changing it to the Flo. 

I wanted to make sure the Moen Flo does what the Grohe Sense does for me now, before I make this change. I don't plan to buy and Moen sensors though. Without additional external sensors and just the Flo valve, does the Flo automatically detect slow leaks or a pipe break and turn off the water supply by itself?

The reason I don't plan to buy any sensors from Moen is that I already have water leak sensors connected to my DSC security system (which is integrated with C4 via it's driver), so any leak is known in C4. I could use this info to turn off the Flo via C4. Is there any disadvantage of doing this as opposed to using Moen's external sensors? 

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

You are correct - the Moen Flo monitors your water usage and pressure, developing a 'model' over the first couple of weeks of use. After that, it is then able to detect unusual patterns indicating a small or large leak. You can configure the Moen Flo App itself to do what you want, including automatic turn-off. It's actually pretty slick.

My wife took a shower a bit longer than usual, and I received the alert on the app, and I also have it configured to call my cell. I have it set to auto turn-off, but I can override this either in the app, or via the phone call. Same thing happened when Stanly Steemer was here cleaning the rugs, and using a fair amount of water. I received the alert and phone call, and was able to over-ride the auto turn-off that would otherwise have occurred.

It does a nightly check as well, and alerted me to a slow leak. I then discovered an outside faucet that had a slow leak, and which needed to be replaced. No alerts after that.

And it works well with Control4. I have a 'Vacation' experience button which when activated, includes turning the valve off (along with other programming for HVAC, lights, etc.). And when we return a simple tap opens it up, and restores everything to normal.

I do have a few external sensors (refrigerator, kitchen sink area, washer), for a little added protection. But these are optional, and the primary functionality described above does not require them.

So you could say I'm extremely happy with the Moen Flo.

[istreich]

Similar feed-back for me. Very happy with the Moen Flo. I bought the Flo sensors as well as they were not overly expensive but they are not necessary. They give you an additional piece of mind for areas that could be higher risk (water heater catastrophic leak, washing machine overflowing...) but abnormal patterns will be picked by the valve/flow monitoring device. Like you, I have started adding a few Resideo/Honeywell Flood sensors connected to my alarm system. I did it before buying the Flo system. Check with your insurance but you may qualify for some rebates with Flo installed. 

I have not integrated with Control4 yet as I am not sure it is worth the cost (driver). But your call. The Flo app is really well done and as Don explained, works well and gives you immediate feed-back before taking action. And if you have a family, there is a good chance that in the first few weeks, someone will complain that the water got shut off... after a 25' minute shower! 

You can request professional install but I did it myself. Not difficult to do if you have a reasonably easy access to main water line and manual shut-off valve. Highly recommend - every house should have something like this, whether it is the Flo by Moen or another one. Water damages are very expensive, painful and one of the easiest things to prevent... Feel free to reach via DM if you need more details.

[jamesc4]

Hi guys

looking for something that has dry contacts so I can tie into alarm panel 

any ideas 

[dinom]

If you integrated with C4 couldn’t you use one of the EA relays to trigger your alarm?

[Nehsmit]

On 6/16/2021 at 9:01 PM, SMHarman said:

So my moenflo and rachio is now working as planned. 

Both have c4 drivers and I put the flo to sleep when the irrigation runs. 

I'll probably get smarter with the programing later. Capture flo status as a variable and then return to original status after irrigation runs. 

Also with lights or security you can set flo to away when security or motion or other devices do the same.  If front door locked and motion sensors detect no motion for 24 h put flo to away. 

When door unlocked put flo to home.

How do you put the flo to sleep when irrigation on? I get so many alerts and water shut off over night because of irrigation. 
Thank you in advance. 

[South Africa C4 user]

26 minutes ago, Nehsmit said:

How do you put the flo to sleep when irrigation on? I get so many alerts and water shut off over night because of irrigation. 
Thank you in advance. 

The best option (if integrated with C4) is to change the mode programmatically to sleep when irrigation starts and change back to normal when irrigation ends.

[Zbee]

I have a FloLogic shutoff valve, which has a wired link to the irrigation system that suspends leak monitoring while the sprinklers are in use.  Have not tried to link it to C4, really no need. As backup, I also use Wireless Tags in areas with water flow to monitor moisture on the floor. Don't know if there is a way to link those to C4 either.

 

Note: insurance companies in our area give a significant discount for homes with leak detection/water shutoff if you use one of their approved systems.  That pays for the system. After a good friend had $1+ MM damage from a water leak, it was an easy call to put one of these in.