Programing help

[shawkyns]

OK, so I have a home theater, and when the system was installed, I had a yamaha AVR, with RCA inputs for video and audio, which connected to the outputs on my laserdisc player.  My dealer had to program a custom driver, and based it off a yamaha DVD player.  it was the only way to get the C4 remote working to control transport on the LD player.

fast forward, I recently updated my receiver to Anthem.. there is no more analog RCA inputs for video and audio.  to get around this, I purchased a RCA to HDMI converter, and ran the input from the LD to the converter, then a HDMI into the receiver.

I also upgraded from OS2 to OS3 during this time, and ended up replacing the 250 that acted as IR source in the theater room to a EA1.

so now my issue is that I have no control over the LD. worse, it is not even listed as a source.  Looking in composer I can see that the connection between the LD and the Anthem no longer exists, if it ever did in the first place, as the anthem does not have RCA in's that can be connected to the out on the yamaha LD in composer.

I don't really know where to go from here.  It seems as if the LD is just too old to be properly connected. Short of selecting it, then manually fiddling with inputs on the Anthem and transport controls on the LD.  I cant find a driver to allow for the analog to digital conversion that is being done with a outside box now. I tried the generic HDMI driver, but this will not even show as a watch source in programming once it is put in.  

I have tried creating a new custom driver, but cant seem to create one that has HDMI as an output.

I am appealing for any ideas how to get this working.  

 

steve

 

 

[msgreenf]

You shouldn't be mucking with composer pro. There is an easy fix 

[Nick Wanerka]

Are you using composer pro or the home edition? 

I agree with msgreenf, if you have not been properly trained in pro, things go wrong real fast.  I had a customer that was a computer programming genius and somehow he got a copy of pro. The system was old and not ok 3.x yet. (That is why he hired us, to upgrade him) after finding out that he was fiddling with an old copy of pro and wanted to know after I upgraded him to 3.x , would I be giving him a copy of the new composer pro? Well that is when my c4 sense went off and was like what? 

We turned the job down after a long heated discussion with the customer (I stayed calm and professional) but the homeowner was so pissed off and kept saying his last dealer always did this and did that.... so I asked him why he is not using his last dealer then. 

He then stopped getting all mad and calmly said "well his is out of business now"

Hmm wonder why. 

[msgreenf]

2 hours ago, shawkyns said:

Looking in composer I can see that the connection between the LD and the Anthem no longer exists,

if he sees connections he is using pro

[Nick Wanerka]

I know, I was being sarcastic to make a point that homeowners should not be using dealers programs.

[JSTRONG]

Yes as msgreen says. There is an easy fix. Ask your dealer to program that for you

[shawkyns]

hi, thanks for the (not so helpful) replies. Yes, I have a copy of pro, and yes, for the last ten years I have been using it. It is not that hard to get on the web, and there are many who use it. Yes, I have a dealer who knows this, and helps with major upgrades and issues.  We have a collaborative effort now, and over the past ten years I have been the one mostly responsible for upgrading my system, including a complete rack rebuild three years ago.

However, this has stumped both of us.  Rather then have him waste more of his time trying to get this sorted, I have reached out to see if the group could help.  

Am I a trained dealer, no.

am I pretty good at getting this programed.. I think I am. not to brag, but I know my limitations.  I dont want to start a whole debate on who should be using this, and I will also point out that even with C4, there have been a relaxing of guidelines, the new version of composer for the user is leaps beyond what the old version would be able to do with programming.. And honestly, making connections in the pro version is the easiest part of the process of installing one of these systems.  

If somebody here who is a dealer and KNOWS how to get this working would like to remote in and  program it for me, then I would be happy to have the help. If somebody can give me a few suggestions, that would be good too.

But when this was put in it took hours of trial and error just to get it working the way I wanted with the system.  the LD was the hardest part of the whole system at the time. I will happily pay somebody to do it if they know they can. I will be happy to post the model numbers of what I have if anybody wants to be the one to try this.

thank you

 

[mstafford388]

For this to work properly you need to create the video and audio path from the LD to the anthem.  Just have your dealer create a "virtual" driver in the driver wizard that has RCA inputs and HDMI outputs.  Just make sure he checks the box to allow the driver to convert signal types.  Then bind the LD to the inputs of that driver, then the output of that driver to the Anthem.  Easy peasy.  

[msgreenf]

Or use path setter

[mstafford388]

1 hour ago, msgreenf said:

Or use path setter

Or this, although If they don't understand needing a video path they may have a tough go at figuring that driver out 

[Time2Jet]

12 hours ago, mstafford388 said:

Or this, although If they don't understand needing a video path they may have a tough go at figuring that driver out 

Not to laugh, but sorta makes me chuckle.  Sheesh, of all the drivers the Path Setter complexity versus utility ratio is just about the worst.  It’s as simple as it gets once you figure it out, but yeah…. not for the faint if heart.   

[Time2Jet]

Another C4 guy and I were laughing that there are the series of very very powerful valuable Domo Keypad drivers that have more docs than CPro lol.  
 

if I’m not mistaken there’s a “suggestions” box or email regarding these drivers.  I’m pretty sure he covered everything.  These have a far better complexity to utility ratio.  Payoff however is quite sincere.  

[Time2Jet]

17 hours ago, shawkyns said:

hi, thanks for the (not so helpful) replies. Yes, I have a copy of pro, and yes, for the last ten years I have been using it. It is not that hard to get on the web, and there are many who use it. Yes, I have a dealer who knows this, and helps with major upgrades and issues.  We have a collaborative effort now, and over the past ten years I have been the one mostly responsible for upgrading my system, including a complete rack rebuild three years ago.

However, this has stumped both of us.  Rather then have him waste more of his time trying to get this sorted, I have reached out to see if the group could help.  

Am I a trained dealer, no.

am I pretty good at getting this programed.. I think I am. not to brag, but I know my limitations.  I dont want to start a whole debate on who should be using this, and I will also point out that even with C4, there have been a relaxing of guidelines, the new version of composer for the user is leaps beyond what the old version would be able to do with programming.. And honestly, making connections in the pro version is the easiest part of the process of installing one of these systems.  

If somebody here who is a dealer and KNOWS how to get this working would like to remote in and  program it for me, then I would be happy to have the help. If somebody can give me a few suggestions, that would be good too.

But when this was put in it took hours of trial and error just to get it working the way I wanted with the system.  the LD was the hardest part of the whole system at the time. I will happily pay somebody to do it if they know they can. I will be happy to post the model numbers of what I have if anybody wants to be the one to try this.

thank you

 

Either member’s answers are correct and will have you up in 5 minutes.  

[Cyknight]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:10 AM, mstafford388 said:

Or this, although If they don't understand needing a video path they may have a tough go at figuring that driver out 

Sorry but, between a supposed dealer and someone 'pretty good' at getting this programmed, they couldn't just simply come up with creating a proper driver with the required in/outputs from scratch?

What is 'not really hard' is creating a basic DVD proxy driver using a built-in wizard, thinking of adding an HDMI connection to it that may not physically be there is not exactly rocket science either

[Cyknight]

On 6/18/2021 at 2:09 AM, shawkyns said:

I have tried creating a new custom driver, but cant seem to create one that has HDMI as an output.

You need to stop using pro

[shawkyns]

HI Again..

I don't really understand the hate with somebody being enthusiastic and wanting to be able to play with his system.  I know this is a dealer environment, but the same way I wouldn't drive a car or a boat without some idea what do do in case something goes wrong, and some idea how to fix it, I don't see how I, or anybody, could have a system like this in their homes without having a basic understanding of how to troubleshoot it and fix it if it goes wrong. Sometimes there is a problem at midnight, unless you have some access to this, which one of the dealers here who have been so judgmental would be willing to take a call at midnight or 2am to fix something that is not working.  to roll a truck at 2am because it is the only time I have available to have something installed or fixed? 

Anyway.. the driver approach was a no go.  I could not get a HDMI output working to make a connection on the driver.  I even tried using the copy of driverworks I found, but then realized that I would have to redo all the IR codes and existing programing if I were to use this in the system.  since I couldnt find the original remote when I looked this seemed like a bad choice.

THANK YOU to msgreenf. his suggestion of using the AV path driver was spot on.  I was able to keep the previous driver and all the programing that went along with it and just make the connection to have it seen and it is now working.  I appreciate it.

Steve

 

 

[Cyknight]

15 hours ago, shawkyns said:

with somebody being enthusiastic and wanting to be able to play with his system

Simple. You aren't "troubleshooting a sudden issue", nor are you programming to stretch the function of a system - you're bypassing the rules you signed up for when you signed that contract.

If neither you or your dealer can figure out how to change what is clearly a basic IR driver to have an HDMI output, neither of you should be using Composer Pro.

Oh I'm sure you don't like that answer - and you can call it 'hate' all you want, but it is, in the end, exactly WHY Composer Pro shouldn't be readily available.

 

15 hours ago, shawkyns said:

because it is the only time I have available to have something installed or fixed

Oh I'm sorry mister President/Head of the FBI/Overlord of the (Under)World , didn't know it was you, because who else could be so important that the only available time you have, the only time anyone is home to let a professional in to fix something in your house, is in the middle of the night. The plumbers, electricians and appliance maintenance people are at you back and call along with the cleaners, your dentist and family doctor.

15 hours ago, shawkyns said:

which one of the dealers here who have been so judgmental would be willing to take a call at midnight or 2am to fix something that is not working.  to roll a truck at 2am

Assuming whatever isn't working is so important that it couldn't wait, I know of plenty, ourselves included, that will and have done so. Though in most cases it's not actually "our" system that is the cause of things - but the furnace guys, electrician or other isn't responding....but guess who does.

15 hours ago, shawkyns said:

I wouldn't drive a car or a boat without some idea what do do in case something goes wrong, and some idea how to fix it,

So you won't drive a car unless you know how to replace the transmission, the engine, the steering wheel, starter, full body wiring, axle and more? Riiiiiiiiight.

 

 

 

[JSTRONG]

control4 is not designed for people who replace their own transmissions in their cars. It’s a luxury product designed to be programmed by trained installers. There is a reason why they make every dealer attend the 4 day class. 

it’s so the product works and the support department doesn’t get flooded with calls. 
 

it’s also designed that way so that when you and your friends are all trying to program a system and it doesn’t work because you didn’t program it right then complain how bad control4 is. 

[OceanDad]

All these responses, and nobody even commented on the..... laserdisc player.

[shawkyns]

yes, laserdisc.. I still have a 600 disc collection that has a few things I want to watch every once in awhile.  I still have four players in box in storage for when the one I am using now breaks down.

So, this is going to be my last post on this topic. again thank you to msgreenf for providing the solution to this. and for others who made suggestions.

As for some of the other replies, you know who you are, I really am having a  hard time with your judgmental attitude.  I really hope that you come across better to your customers than you do on these forums.  When I was first considering the smart home route, I had three estimates done before I found my dealer.  I was ready to give up on the whole thing because the dealers who came out were either condescending, took weeks to do a simple estimate, or seemed more interested in having the system work the way they thought it should instead of the way I wanted and needed it to.  Thankfully, I found the dealer I have now, who was referred by a friend at work.. who was willing to accommodate my schedule, and who was willing to listen to what I wanted to be able to do with the system.  Unfortunately he is no longer local, but is still willing to sell me equipment to install and upgrade, and to remote program when I need him to.  Awesome guy, and I wish more of the 'smarthome'' people would be like him.

about two years ago, I had to have new AC installed in my house.  three systems.. long and short is that because of my schedule, I was only able to give them one day to do the work. yes, my work schedule is that bad, and my time commitments are that strenuous.  they did the work, but f###ed up the connection to the thermostats, blowing up two of them when the system was turned on.  These were the old C4 therms, with remote sensing in each room for temp.  AC guys had no clue about the C4 therms, how to troubleshoot them, or how to fix the problem, and recommended I call a C4 dealer.  so here we go, called 5 local dealers to see if I could get somebody out to trouble shoot this problem, and replace the therms.  NOBODY even returned the calls the same day.  frantically called my dealer, who sent me five therms from out of state, overnight, and just talked me through the wiring to get them installed.   turned out two of the old ones were actually 'blown up', with charring on the inside where the wrong connections were made. only needed two replaced, but ended up keeping and paying for all five to get some consistency, and to say thanks to my dealer, who went out of his way to get this working for me.. 

I wont even consider anybody else at this point, and some of these comments make me remember why. Cyknight.. really? I hope you get over whatever trauma or situation made you so bitter.. you obviously had something happen to you and I wish you the best. your sarcasm regarding my schedule and hour commitment, when you dont even know what I do, and what my commitments are, is really.. just bad.  Dont judge others until you walk a mile in their shoes my friend. 

Anyway, another thanks to those who helped.. 

Steve

 

[Cyknight]

9 hours ago, shawkyns said:

Dont judge others until you walk a mile in their shoes my friend. 

Indeed.

9 hours ago, shawkyns said:

I hope you get over whatever trauma or situation made you so bitter..

I'm fine thanks - but do follow your own advice.

 

[Time2Jet]

20 hours ago, OceanDad said:

All these responses, and nobody even commented on the..... laserdisc player.

Lol, thanks for the levity. This thread needed it.  

[OceanDad]

26 minutes ago, time2jet said:

Lol, thanks for the levity. This thread needed it.  

Maybe someone can suggest some additional programming.  Along the lines of WHEN ---- laserdisc player needs to take a breather so that I can turn the disc over to watch Side 2 then PLAY---- Spotify (Elevator Music)

[JSTRONG]

Hey Ocean. You must not be familiar with the awesome Pioneer Laserdisc player that did auto turnover

I had one of those and loved it.

 

 

[OceanDad]

You are right.  I remember them being the absolute must have in 1991.