Tablet As Wall Control Interface? (Amazon Fire, iPad, Galaxy Tab)

[prabeau]

9 hours ago, eggzlot said:

Press tablet to wake it.  Navigate to C4 app to open it.  Wait 1-4 seconds give or take (sometimes longer if programming was done and it needs a refresh).   And that’s assuming great Wi-Fi.  
 

some drivers also have web views and not sure that works on an android app

T3/t4 are priced premium because of the better integration

i have 4 in wall t3, one tabletop t3 and an android tablet I use in my office 95% for C4.  The difference is very obvious.  May as well use my phone instead of the tablet.  It works but wasn’t worth it. 

I don't have to wait. APP is running all the time and is as quick as my old C4 screen.JUst checked installed 24/09/2019. No battery issues.!

[skippman]

9 hours ago, eggzlot said:

Mine isn’t a fire tablet so can’t check but his post mentions using it for google calendar app so kiosk mode wouldn’t be what he wants

I could use Kiosk mode with two of them. It's only the one in the kitchen I was considering using Google Calendar with. I'm also considering just building a full Raspberry Pi based device with a 24" screen for this purpose and running LineageOS on it. I know Android now allows the running of two apps in split screen mode but I can't imagine that being a particularly elegant solutions.

This video makes it look like using the Fire tablets would work pretty great if I used the Kiosk app you guys recommended.

 

 

[eggzlot]

6 minutes ago, skippman said:

I could use Kiosk mode with two of them. It's only the one in the kitchen I was considering using Google Calendar with. I'm also considering just building a full Raspberry Pi based device with a 24" screen for this purpose and running LineageOS on it. I know Android now allows the running of two apps in split screen mode but I can't imagine that being a particularly elegant solutions.

This video makes it look like using the Fire tablets would work pretty great if I used the Kiosk app you guys recommended.

 

 

Can also buy 1 fire tablet.  See how it works.  Before committing to 3x either solution.  
 

or shop around

 

[Amr]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:38 PM, skippman said:

I could use Kiosk mode with two of them. It's only the one in the kitchen I was considering using Google Calendar with. I'm also considering just building a full Raspberry Pi based device with a 24" screen for this purpose and running LineageOS on it. I know Android now allows the running of two apps in split screen mode but I can't imagine that being a particularly elegant solutions.

For C4 u need the Fully Kiosk App, which locks it to C4 app not the Browser which is more for HA

[anon2828]

I went through this decision as well and ended up using an iPad min with the iPort LuxePort mount.

It looks fantastic on the wall, can be pulled off to use handheld, and the mount on the wall when the tablet is removed looks good as well.

Agree that instant on to the C4 Navigator, Intercom Anywhere, and the idea of a dedicated control isn't there with an iPad...

HOWEVER:

If you have any other smart home apps that you need to get to that are not 100% integrated into C4, you can access all of them.
Good example of above is the cluster F with MyQ garage doors - I can just go over to that app and control them.
Hey Siri is nice to have if you have any Apple HomeKit automations.
Can also access Alexa app which is nice as well.

 

[skippman]

13 hours ago, anon2828 said:

I went through this decision as well and ended up using an iPad min with the iPort LuxePort mount.

It looks fantastic on the wall, can be pulled off to use handheld, and the mount on the wall when the tablet is removed looks good as well.

Agree that instant on to the C4 Navigator, Intercom Anywhere, and the idea of a dedicated control isn't there with an iPad...

HOWEVER:

If you have any other smart home apps that you need to get to that are not 100% integrated into C4, you can access all of them.
Good example of above is the cluster F with MyQ garage doors - I can just go over to that app and control them.
Hey Siri is nice to have if you have any Apple HomeKit automations.
Can also access Alexa app which is nice as well.

 

This was kind of where my head was at. I'd like to be able to switch to the Ubiquiti app if needed or any other apps. I'll likely buy one Fire tablet like was recommended previously and try it out once the system is up and running.

[Jakelay]

To avoid the battery swelling, I set up power on one of my iPads via POE and just have that scheduled to turn off the power for a few hours every night to avoid the battery swell.  For a few table top iPads, I set them up with a stand and a Kasa plug, Chowmain’s TP-Link driver and do the same thing - power off through some of the night.

I don’t have security cameras or use intercom anywhere bit I find that I carry my daily iPad and phone around the house with me so I don’t even use the iPads right now so I’m glad I didn’t spring for the touch panels.  Once I add cameras, I may feel much differently though.

[anon2828]

Don't know why there are still battery issues on iOS - this isn't new:

About iPad and iPhone Charge Management Feature:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208710

[skippman]

Is there any reason for the preference in using PoE chargers as opposed to just wiring an inverter off the house mains A/C?

[eggzlot]

20 minutes ago, skippman said:

Is there any reason for the preference in using PoE chargers as opposed to just wiring an inverter off the house mains A/C?

some nicer PoE switches can you give some on/off controls so the device isnt charging 100% of the day.  You can accomplish that with a Wemo too.  But PoE is nice as its 1 switch, easy wiring, you can do some diagnostics and remote rebooting if the PoE switch has those features.  Plus its easy to swap PoE devices in and out after you retire devices.  Sometimes regular plugs are different and don't plug and play nicely.

[Cyknight]

For all this effort/issues with a tablet plus wall mount, plus PoE inserters or controlled port PoE switches..... I'd just get a C4 screen

 

I get all the other reasons for using 'regular' tablets for C4, but COST wise, it never seems to make sense if you want a nice looking setup. Frankly by the time you have a nice mount for a nice iPad (hoperfully one with level sensing so it doesn't destroy the battery), you're not cheaper off...

 

Ugly mount for a cheap tablet, sure you can save money.

[wnpublic]

18 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

For all this effort/issues with a tablet plus wall mount, plus PoE inserters or controlled port PoE switches..... I'd just get a C4 screen

 

I get all the other reasons for using 'regular' tablets for C4, but COST wise, it never seems to make sense if you want a nice looking setup. Frankly by the time you have a nice mount for a nice iPad (hoperfully one with level sensing so it doesn't destroy the battery), you're not cheaper off...

 

Ugly mount for a cheap tablet, sure you can save money.

This is just FUD.  A current generation 10.2" iPad with a nice wall mount and POE converter would be less than half the list price of a 10" T3, let alone a T4.  And the T3s, especially the smaller ones, don't look particularly great on wall in any event.

[skippman]

7 hours ago, wnpublic said:

This is just FUD.  A current generation 10.2" iPad with a nice wall mount and POE converter would be less than half the list price of a 10" T3, let alone a T4.  And the T3s, especially the smaller ones, don't look particularly great on wall in any event.

I agree with this statement. I can get a nice wall mount, charger, and 10" tablet for less than $250 a unit. The T3 lists at nearly $950 a unit. That's a $500 cost savings for a little hassle. I'm honestly not surprised that the only people who have seemed to nitpick the idea of using a COTS tablet all have "Control4 Dealer" under their avatar. I talked to my local friend who is designing and selling me my Control4 system and even he agreed that there's absolutely nothing wrong with using tablets and concurred that in some applications (like mine) there's a strong incentive to do so. I understand that on the forum here my saying that is here-say, but it does appear to be backed up other user stories here. 

I fail to see the difference aesthetically between this:


And this:

[msgreenf]

Personally I would start with one make sure you like it before investing too heavily even though it's a lower cost point you still don't want to be in a place where you're unhappy with the experience

[Control4Savant]

26 minutes ago, skippman said:

I agree with this statement. I can get a nice wall mount, charger, and 10" tablet for less than $250 a unit. The T3 lists at nearly $950 a unit. That's a $500 cost savings for a little hassle. I'm honestly not surprised that the only people who have seemed to nitpick the idea of using a COTS tablet all have "Control4 Dealer" under their avatar. I talked to my local friend who is designing and selling me my Control4 system and even he agreed that there's absolutely nothing wrong with using tablets and concurred that in some applications (like mine) there's a strong incentive to do so. I understand that on the forum here my saying that is here-say, but it does appear to be backed up other user stories here. 

I fail to see the difference aesthetically between this:
 

Its not here-say... and there are plenty of us dealers who suggest tablets over dedicated touch screens. Especially touch screens that cost more than an iPad and are built as cheaply as a Fire tablet.

[skippman]

32 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

Its not here-say... and there are plenty of us dealers who suggest tablets over dedicated touch screens. Especially touch screens that cost more than an iPad and are built as cheaply as a Fire tablet.

I meant it was here-say in that I won't quote him or list his name on the forum. It's not from a known, cited source. He, like many here, has a business model he needs to maintain and what he tells me in confidence as a friend I don't want to quote him on as I don't know if there isn't repercussions to his business if I do so. That's all I was trying to say.

[Jakelay]

The only reason I went with iPads is that I had them laying round after upgrading every year or two so why not? Again, I don’t use intercom or security cameras so I would probably rethink a T3/T4 if that were the case if the functionality doesn’t exist on the iPads.  Frankly, I never use the iPads. As I said, I always have my phone or iPad with me and it’s easier to just use those - which I REALLY appreciate having.  A fixed screen somewhere just wouldn’t get the use my phone or iPad in hand get. That’s a testament to the flexibility of C4, lots of options. Previous Crestron system had 1 VERY expensive touch pad in the kitchen but only used infrequently. I use the OS app a lot with C4.

So if there is a central place and a plan for using a screen, then the integration of the C4 screens would be better to have IMO. Additional setups around the house may not need that integration so iPads/fire tablets may be a good option for less $$. I think it just depends.

In fairness to the dealers, if you really want integration with everything and rock solid use, I would want them to explain why the T4 is a better option but would also want to know about the flexibility to use other tablets with pros and cons. If a touchscreen is used a lot for info or interaction, there is no substitute for the integration. The options are great to have as well though, but you have to know the limitations.

And I already have the TP-Link driver and needed a few power strips for the SR-260s and Neeos to charge so there really was no additional cost and very little effort needed to set up the timer to void battery swell (not even sure I needed to bother with that any longer). The POE setup I am using needed to be wired so I had my installer run the Ethernet cable because it is the middle of a room (table top only option) and I wanted to see if I would actually use the touchscreen in that location before investing in a T3/T4, but the cable is there for whenever I want.  The POE adapter was about $125 so figured it was worth the risk. Turns out, I’m glad I didn’t get the screen - for now. Again, may feel differently if we use IA and get cameras set up but the wiring is there for me if/when I’m ready.

[eggzlot]

One point I don't think that was addressed, for what its worth, C4 supported their last tablet (prior to the T3) a good 7-8 years I think before they were forced to be decommissioned and that was mostly because they moved from Flash to Android.  In general C4 has been good about keeping products not EOL for 7-9 years or so before EOL and making it hard to upgrade with those older devices. Keep in mind, Apple supports a tablet/phones ~5 years then updates/new updates don't work, and Android well, that is hit or miss, I've had devices with no updates/upgrades/support after as little as 3 years.  So though it may be cheaper to get the tablet you may need to replace it sooner, then replace the mount vs getting almost 2x the support out of C4.  again this is just based on past data and cannot be 100% guaranteed in either direction.

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, skippman said:

I meant it was here-say in that I won't quote him or list his name on the forum. It's not from a known, cited source. He, like many here, has a business model he needs to maintain and what he tells me in confidence as a friend I don't want to quote him on as I don't know if there isn't repercussions to his business if I do so. That's all I was trying to say.

it also seems like your friend is your dealer so its a different story.  If I was a dealer it would be hard to support each client's tablet.  Apple, Samsung, Amazon, Lenovo and whatever other branded Android tablet you can find.  When a client calls and says my touchscreen isn't working they have to know what OS and with Android it can be different flavors, etc, its not easy to always troubleshoot and fix and their time is money.  So yeah that is likely why they tend to quote a T4, they know how to troubleshoot, they have access to RMA the device, they have access to tech support and its dedicated so its not another app you installed that crashed the device.

If you are more DIY oriented, if a friend is setting up your system, if you aren't using security cameras if you arent using Intercom access etc and you want to save a few dollars and dont mind the extra loading time of waking up the tablet, loading the app, etc.....Well you have your answer.  But that setup isn't the norm (a DIY with a friend doing the install, etc)

the beauty of C4 is there usually isnt a 100% right or wrong method...

[Amr]

Both are fine, I have the T3’s for Intercom, rest of house I have Android Tablets, small, medium and large, u name it …

[Cyknight]

On 9/23/2021 at 9:54 PM, wnpublic said:

This is just FUD.  A current generation 10.2" iPad with a nice wall mount and POE converter would be less than half the list price of a 10" T3, let alone a T4.  And the T3s, especially the smaller ones, don't look particularly great on wall in any event.

Current gen standard ipad STARTS at 499CAD

Cheapest iPad mount that looks really nice that I've been able to find that has built-in battery sensing is about the same price, doesn't come with a powersupply (only a 24v to 5v adapter or PoE to 5v adapter)

16 hours ago, skippman said:

I'm honestly not surprised that the only people who have seemed to nitpick the idea of using a COTS tablet all have "Control4 Dealer" under their avatar. I talked to my local friend who is designing and selling me my Control4 system and even he agreed that there's absolutely nothing wrong with using tablets and concurred that in some applications (like mine) there's a strong incentive to do so. I understand that on the forum here my saying that is here-say, but it does appear to be backed up other user stories here. 

Huh. I didn't say it's a bad thing, just stating my personal opinion on it.

To be clear, we offer ipad wall installs for clients, and especially those who are full Apple tech infrastructure get them, and I happily install them. We just did a place with 3 iPad pro's (client request) and basalte eve mounts. Looks very nice no doubt but 3 T4 10" would have been cheaper.

When it comes to portable screens, we sell few and only for very specific use cases if desired - this is where tablets are a more common choice.

 

16 hours ago, skippman said:

I fail to see the difference aesthetically between this:

Uhm, really? Well, let's agree that I have VERY different ideas on aesthetics then.

[Cyknight]

13 hours ago, eggzlot said:

If I was a dealer it would be hard to support each client's tablet.  Apple, Samsung, Amazon, Lenovo and whatever other branded Android tablet you can find.

Which is why we only supply and install mounts for iPads - though we are fine running the wiring for anyone who wants to DIY any other tablet, we can't take responsibility for every shape size and 'flavor' of mount available.

Android tablets are still more 'volatile' (as in constantly changing models) than iPads, though if that stabilizes I'm sure we'll pick one or two good quality tablets from main brands to supply mounts for.

Again, I have ZERO problems offering options people want (if feasible) - that doesn't change my personal preference however.

[Control4Savant]

8 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Current gen standard ipad STARTS at 499CAD

Cheapest iPad mount that looks really nice that I've been able to find that has built-in battery sensing is about the same price, doesn't come with a powersupply (only a 24v to 5v adapter or PoE to 5v adapter)

Huh. I didn't say it's a bad thing, just stating my personal opinion on it.

To be clear, we offer ipad wall installs for clients, and especially those who are full Apple tech infrastructure get them, and I happily install them. We just did a place with 3 iPad pro's (client request) and basalte eve mounts. Looks very nice no doubt but 3 T4 10" would have been cheaper.

When it comes to portable screens, we sell few and only for very specific use cases if desired - this is where tablets are a more common choice.

 

Uhm, really? Well, let's agree that I have VERY different ideas on aesthetics then.

There are new 10" iPads on Best Buys website for just over $300... even with your argument you could be saving people $1k's in cost by cutting each locations price in half with virtually no set back... while giving many more capabilities.  I would rather move that clients money over to other parts of the system they would like to enjoy as well. 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apple-10-2-inch-ipad-latest-model-with-wi-fi-64gb-space-gray/4901809.p?skuId=4901809

We all know you can get brand new previous gen units online without much difficulty as well. I am sure we all have different ideas on aesthetics but both of these iPad solutions are as (IMO more) clean and high end looking as any of the (very not zero edge) ugly dedicated panels from manufactures (Savant included). Especially now with the edgeless iPads/tablets out. 

[TundraSonic]

On 9/16/2021 at 7:24 PM, South Africa C4 user said:

Also on the con side:

1. No intercom

2. No integrated weather

3.  No Control4 screensaver (which is a big one for me as I switch between “off” - when watching TV in a nearby area and when sleeping nearby, “album cover art plus date time, temperature” when listening to music, “giant clock” when doing exercise / swimming nearby and “digital photos” the rest of the time).

For me 2 & 3 are pros. The screensaver and integrated weather capabilities from C4 are quite anemic. iPad provides for much greater capability for both and more importantly all of the 3rd party stuff that's out there or is yet to come. I've not yet done much with this due to being overloaded with other stuff but we're planning to rely on older iPads for our studio rather than T3/T4's so will be jumping in with both feet in a few weeks.

I think the biggest issue for us will be figuring out a way to avoid the startup delay without using a kiosk type mode. E.G., some way for the C4 app to think it's staying focused even if something else has focus. For our needs a good screensaver might be a solution. Something that provides some cameras from Security Spy, weather across the bottom, and other stuff might do it.

It seems there are some great opportunities for 3rd party developers to do some stuff here. 

[TundraSonic]

On 9/16/2021 at 7:24 PM, South Africa C4 user said:

Also on the con side:

1. No intercom

2. No integrated weather

3.  No Control4 screensaver (which is a big one for me as I switch between “off” - when watching TV in a nearby area and when sleeping nearby, “album cover art plus date time, temperature” when listening to music, “giant clock” when doing exercise / swimming nearby and “digital photos” the rest of the time).

For me 2 & 3 are pros. The screensaver and integrated weather capabilities from C4 are quite anemic. iPad provides for much greater capability for both and more importantly all of the 3rd party stuff that's out there or is yet to come. I've not yet done much with this due to being overloaded with other stuff but we're planning to rely on older iPads for our studio rather than T3/T4's so will be jumping in with both feet in a few weeks.

I think the biggest issue for us will be figuring out a way to avoid the startup delay without using a kiosk type mode. E.G., some way for the C4 app to think it's staying focused even if something else has focus. For our needs a good screensaver might be a solution. Something that provides some cameras from Security Spy, weather across the bottom, and other stuff might do it.

It seems there are some great opportunities for 3rd party developers to do some stuff here.