Cheapest way to extend Zigbee?

[ejn1]

I have a corner of my home and garage that is very weak...  Any cheap options to extend coverage?  I have a couple of old HC250's lying around but not sure if that will do work with the latest OS in this capacity.  Thanks.

[-defunct-]

HC250s won't work on OS3, but the best way is having a mesh controller. Cheapest method for that is a CA1.

[chopedogg88]

Or you can use a z2io which is also a mesh extender for around $180 msrp new. Personally I prefer to install a dimmer or keypad dimmer to extend the mesh if it works from a logistical perspective... That way you get some use out of it other than just extending the mesh. 

Z2io does have relays, contacts, IR and also a temp sensor though, and with lack of MyQ cloud integration I do often use a z2io in the garage anyways to control the MyQ motors and provide mesh extension. 

[-defunct-]

4 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Or you can use a z2io which is also a mesh extender for around $180 msrp new. Personally I prefer to install a dimmer or keypad dimmer to extend the mesh if it works from a logistical perspective... That way you get some use out of it other than just extending the mesh. 

Z2io does have relays, contacts, IR and also a temp sensor though, and with lack of MyQ cloud integration I do often use a z2io in the garage anyways to control the MyQ motors and provide mesh extension. 

They are not extenders btw. Just another zigbee node and not a good solution for it.

Also, it does not follow the new zigbee design guidelines for stable meshes.

[ejn1]

11 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Or you can use a z2io which is also a mesh extender for around $180 msrp new. Personally I prefer to install a dimmer or keypad dimmer to extend the mesh if it works from a logistical perspective... That way you get some use out of it other than just extending the mesh. 

Z2io does have relays, contacts, IR and also a temp sensor though, and with lack of MyQ cloud integration I do often use a z2io in the garage anyways to control the MyQ motors and provide mesh extension. 

Thanks, I have a z2io in my garage and it is always weak signal strength.   It has C4 lights within 10 ft of it.   Not sure why its not meshing more reliably.

[chopedogg88]

12 minutes ago, Dunamivora said:

They are not extenders btw. Just another zigbee node and not a good solution for it.

Also, it does not follow the new zigbee design guidelines for stable meshes.

The Z2IO is absolutely a mesh extender. What guideline rule does it not follow? 

[-defunct-]

6 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

Thanks, I have a z2io in my garage and it is always weak signal strength.   It has C4 lights within 10 ft of it.   Not sure why its not meshing more reliably.

Z2IOs are designed as one of the best routing nodes but should be central to a mesh, not the outskirts.

If you had a mesh controller within 10ft of it, then you'd see a better signal.

[-defunct-]

1 minute ago, chopedogg88 said:

The Z2IO is absolutely a mesh extender. What guideline rule does it not follow? 

The updated ones in tech.control4.com.

It is a routing node, not an extender. It's no different than a lightswitch or outlet switch minus it supports more routing connections. It's best centralized to a mesh, not added on the outside of a mesh.

[Control4Savant]

Oh zigbee… 

[BXTR]

Z2IO is not a mesh extender

The best way to extend signal would be with a C4 lighting product 

[chopedogg88]

Yes, it is.  Says so right in the product documentation and I've used it to extend many many zigbee networks...

[-defunct-]

That description is marketing lingo, not how it technically functions.

That misunderstanding alone has led to too many poor mesh designs that sales engineers have had to fix and customer complaints.

I've looked over many of them. If a long distance exists between two areas, a mesh controller is better to use and the ideal solution vs attempting to extend the mesh to the remote area.

[Control4Savant]

Z2IO are really bad options for extending zigbee. You are much better off buying a used controller and adding a ZAP 

[chopedogg88]

Yes a controller is definitely a better option for sure. Not arguing that. 

[Cyknight]

16 hours ago, BXTR said:

Z2IO is not a mesh extender

The best way to extend signal would be with a C4 lighting product 

C4 lighting product under new 'guidelines' is also not a zigbee extender.

 

EXTENDER = ZAP (preferably also a separate Zserver)

REPEATER = any node capable of repeating the signal (most non-battery operated products)

The whole naming is still confusing really, but the idea that extending is the same is repeating is where a lot of confusion comes from.

 

If it's just one 'bad' corner, you could use TWO Z2IOs to BRIDGE the gap (one at the edge of a strong mesh, withing good range of the first, hopefully about half way) or even just adding a extra REPEATER of any sort closer to the 'bad' spot BUT within the strong mesh already can help.

[Cyknight]

Maybe:

Extend = create a new mesh out of range of the existing one

Repeat = grow a mesh stronger/bigger

?

 

[Control4Savant]

9 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

C4 lighting product under new 'guidelines' is also not a zigbee extender.

 

EXTENDER = ZAP (preferably also a separate Zserver)

REPEATER = any node capable of repeating the signal (most non-battery operated products)

The whole naming is still confusing really, but the idea that extending is the same is repeating is where a lot of confusion comes from.

 

If it's just one 'bad' corner, you could use TWO Z2IOs to BRIDGE the gap (one at the edge of a strong mesh, withing good range of the first, hopefully about half way) or even just adding a extra REPEATER of any sort closer to the 'bad' spot BUT within the strong mesh already can help.

There’s no reason to have separate severs unless your over the suggested 75 - 100 nodes. Issues w/ multiple z servers was in old OS versions

[chopedogg88]

My meshes with one zserver tend to run with the fewest zigbee issues. 

[Cyknight]

1 minute ago, Control4Savant said:

There’s no reason to have separate severs unless your over the suggested 75 - 100 nodes. Issues w/ multiple z servers was in old OS versions

Myeah...

You may need to check the current guidelines:

It's NOT advised to have more than one ZAP per server. The suggested limit is also 70.

 

I'm not commenting on what CAN or even SHOULD be done, just clarifying what the guidelines state.

[Cyknight]

5 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

My meshes with one zserver tend to run with the fewest zigbee issues. 

Well yes, a single mesh can only HAVE one server, so they by default run best that way

Of course a single system can have multiple meshes.

[chopedogg88]

Yes o yes o master of symantics! 

[Control4Savant]

47 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Myeah...

You may need to check the current guidelines:

It's NOT advised to have more than one ZAP per server. The suggested limit is also 70.

 

I'm not commenting on what CAN or even SHOULD be done, just clarifying what the guidelines state.

Yep. “Current” guidelines have been continuously changed on a technology completely reliant on a unique environment. That limit has been changed a few times. When the CA1 was release Control4 specifically talked about them used as a inexpensive ZAP solution for larger or extended mesh. Multiple ZAPs just need correctly set up no different than WAPs. Unless it’s max nodes, you may limit connectivity having multiple servers on one system.

[didiasku]

why not a zxt30?

[RAV]

To get on the same page:

Processors run Zserver and Zap.
Zserver is the software router, and Zap the hardware device that actually communicates to the devices.
Each Zserver can handle 70 devices.

Router Nodes are non battery powered units and relay commands to other nodes, old stuff (pre 2013 lighting) was limited to the number of end notes (6) EACH router node can communicate with, and zio can do twice as many as lighting (32 vs 16), which only practically matters when there's few router nodes and lots of end nodes.
End nodes do not relay a signal: remotes, thermostats, locks, shades, other battery things.
There are no "extenders" only "repeaters". (even though the literature and guides still uses the wrong nomenclature)

Zigbee distance in an optimum environment, 30'. Typical 9-15'. Bad 6'
Same frequency as WiFI 2.4. Best channels 15, 20, 25. 25 cleanest but also less power as it's limited by FCC.

Multiple servers VS 1 server and multiple zaps.
Over the years this has changed a lot.
Current recommendation is to setup multiple Zservers, idea being as many devices as possible directly communicating with the Zserver, and fewest hops.
Only practical reason for single mesh is portable zigbee devices that need to work through out a large project with multiple zaps, ie remotes taken from room to room.
(the other case may be lighting popcorn, where very large lighting scenes may not trigger at the same time over different Zservers)

Don't stick them within 15' of a Wap.
Don't stick them in a metal rack.
Don't stick them in the corner.

[BXTR]

Using 1 or 2 Z2IO not recommended to extend zigbee range as per Control4 tech document

On a recent takeover there were 4x Z2IO in a house, spotty performance was an ongoing issue, adding a C4 outlet switch fixed it, no complaints since

Use a lighting product to enhance zigbee if you’re on the fringe of range

Use a CA-1 or the like if you’re out of range.