TundraSonic Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 On the hunt for a new controller. In our prior house we used a number of different ones but the Rachio 2 and then Rachio 3 were overwhelmingly the best of any we tried. Never got the C4 integration working properly though my understanding is that the problem we had was fixed soon after we moved. C4 Integration. While most watering is automated there are a few instances where integration would be handy. One example, we occasionally need to do an extra watering of some zones in the afternoon to prevent stress. I'd like a push button on a keypad for me or my wife rather than having to do it manually through the irrigation controller app (at least 18 steps w/ Rainbird). Another is to skip watering for some period when we'll be in the yard. In our new house… Landscape contractor will only use 2-wire systems with decoders which Rachio does not yet support. These are less expensive, more reliable, easier to troubleshoot and provide positive acknowledgment to the controller that the valve did indeed open or close. Hunter (HCC) - He originally installed a Hunter w/ Hydrowise. Overall a really good system, good UI, promises of C4 integration. A number of better features than Rachio like more sensors (temp, soil moisture, wind, ...), reports, etc. ET/MAD functionality equal to or better than Rachio. Initially we were quite happy. HOWEVER, WiFi continuously dropped. We learned that they use a chip from Newport Media that does not meet industry specs and many mfr's have had problems with these, especially on newer AP's. Worse, the programmers for Hunter didn't include any positive feedback acknowledgments in their code. If you turn a zone on/off from the app then the app will say it's running or stopped even if WiFi had dropped and so the request never reached the controller and the zone never did run. My 14-year-old niece knows better. A minor PITA if you're at the location but a bigger problem if you're remote (like trying to turn sprinklers off for a contractor who just arrived and can't do his work because of the sprinklers). So, we switched to Rainbird. Rainbird (LXD) - One of the worst user interfaces that's ever existed. Totally awful. Especially coming from Hunter which was quite good. HOWEVER, Rainbird seems quite reliable. It doesn't tell you that a zone is running until it's heard back from the decoder. So if there's a wifi or any other problem you'll not be told bad info like Hunter. Setting it up and using it can be confusing and frustrating. We're still trying to figure some things out that were intuitive with Hunter. Hunter also had much better and more informative reports. No C4 or any other integration that I'm aware of. We may be stuck w/ Rainbird but hopefully there's a better alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Rachio all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Rachio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Rachio and Blackwire driver is a solid rock thing, don’t look elsewhere! Am in Egypt and while my country is supposed not to be supported the system worked flawlessly for 7 years now, I tried their support in 2017 and they were very supportive. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff W Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Another vote for Rachio. You can bind the experience timer sprinkler driver (dealer action) to the Rachio zones and have manual control. Set the experience button to your desired timer lengths and you can have manual control of the zones. It may not be instant because it has to send it to the cloud and back down for control. But Rachio has been the best we've integrated so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 Thanks all. Rachio still doesn't support 2-wire decoders though so they are not an option for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 What is a 2 wire decoder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 27 minutes ago, TundraSonic said: Thanks all. Rachio still doesn't support 2-wire decoders though so they are not an option for us. In this case am not aware of any other system that supports both 2-wire and can be integrated to C4. Maybe you have external relays or contact sensors you can use? If yes then u might be able to integrate it to C4 but frankly it will be on/off kind of integration not full functionality! TundraSonic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, msgreenf said: What is a 2 wire decoder? Similar to DMX (and somewhat based on the DMX protocol). Rather than run individual wire pairs to each valve, you do a single run to all valves. Connect a decoder and it tells the valve to open (and in some cases how much to open). It also provides feedback to the controller that the valve opened/closed (and some actually provide a valve state). Easier and less expensive to install/repair, more reliable, etc. Commercial systems have been decoder based for over a decade. Many sensors are also based on this system which makes it easier to add soil moisture sensors, wind, rain, solar/UV, etc. C4 User and msgreenf 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I have Rachio working great. It is a good two way communication. I get push notifications of waterings and I also use the rachio to tell my Moen Flo to go to sleep and wake back up so I don't get false water leak / use alerts during irrigation operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4 User Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Highly recommend you look at weathermatic. Does not have C4 driver (at least yet) but can’t be beat as a system. I tore out my hunter controller to install this one. Warning, it’s pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4 User Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Just now, C4 User said: Highly recommend you look at weathermatic. Does not have C4 driver (at least yet) but can’t be beat as a system. I tore out my hunter controller to install this one. Warning, it’s pricey. If you go with weathermatic, get the air card and flow rate monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darin, PM C4 CX Platform Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 +1 for Rachio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnGordon Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Rachio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Does Rachio have a way to give a third party, like your irrigation guy, access? I have had an Irrigation Caddy for a decade or so, but they went bust several years ago. The issue with this is that when my dealer comes to winterize and to open up in the spring I have to be there to turn on the zones. The dealer has suggested Hunter as with their system I can give him a type of dealer access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 43 minutes ago, zaphod said: Does Rachio have a way to give a third party, like your irrigation guy, access? I have had an Irrigation Caddy for a decade or so, but they went bust several years ago. The issue with this is that when my dealer comes to winterize and to open up in the spring I have to be there to turn on the zones. The dealer has suggested Hunter as with their system I can give him a type of dealer access. Although I've never used it myself, there appears to be a 'Shared Access' option, which would do exactly what you want. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpencerT Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I'll be the outlier here and suggest looking into rainmachine. There is no c4 driver, but they do publish their rest API (local and remote) if you wanted to do something with it. I've had 2 of the touch HD units running for about 7 or 8 years with no problems. We have 22 zones and just shy of 90 sprinkler heads throughout the property. Your concern was the primary reason I chose this over Rachio. My landscapers and sprinkler guys can easily start and stop zones, make any adjustments right from the units themselves without having to use the app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 6 hours ago, RyanE said: Although I've never used it myself, there appears to be a 'Shared Access' option, which would do exactly what you want. RyanE When you share they get an email with a link that opens up your browser and they can control your system on their phone RyanE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleon Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 10:21 AM, TundraSonic said: Thanks all. Rachio still doesn't support 2-wire decoders though so they are not an option for us. 2 wire decoder? Like Add-A-Zone? If that what they are putting in, good luck - they are a nightmare. Cheaper for the landscaper running it, but a nightmare later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 19 hours ago, zaphod said: Does Rachio have a way to give a third party, like your irrigation guy, access? I have had an Irrigation Caddy for a decade or so, but they went bust several years ago. The issue with this is that when my dealer comes to winterize and to open up in the spring I have to be there to turn on the zones. The dealer has suggested Hunter as with their system I can give him a type of dealer access. Yes they do. Love the Rachio! And if you spend some time setting it up, it becomes a major water saver my irrigation company has access. Does open and close and maintenance without any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 5 hours ago, fleon said: 2 wire decoder? Like Add-A-Zone? If that what they are putting in, good luck - they are a nightmare. Cheaper for the landscaper running it, but a nightmare later. These are in a different class that add-a-zone. The reason that just about all commercial (and larger residential and increasingly all residential) use 2-wire decoder systems is that they are much more reliable and capable. If they were any kind of a nightmare then they'd not be as ubiquitous as they are. C4 User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4 User Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 @TundraSonic take a close look at Weathermatic. I have used weathermatic for almost 20 years. In my current home, they installed Hunter. I used it for a year and replaced it. I have Rachio installed at my mom’s home. As a home owner with a large system, the advanced features of weathermatic can’t be beat. Rachio is a great replacement to the basic controllers on the market, but I would not call it an advanced controller. TundraSonic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 I'm not sure that Weathermatic would get me anything beyond the Rainbird I have now? If it had C4 integration I think I'd be all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 2 hours ago, TundraSonic said: I'm not sure that Weathermatic would get me anything beyond the Rainbird I have now? If it had C4 integration I think I'd be all over it. What do you use the C4 integration for? I have thought about this in the past but I struggle to come up with a use case where I need it in C4. I only actually use the irrigation app a handful of times per year and that is usually around opening and closing the system for the season. SpencerT and RyanE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 @zaphod, see second paragraph of OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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