zaphod Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Ok, maybe for the second watering. But I water from 4-6 am - I am never in the yard at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 Yep, mostly the same for us except 4a > 8a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 13 hours ago, zaphod said: What do you use the C4 integration for? I have thought about this in the past but I struggle to come up with a use case where I need it in C4. I only actually use the irrigation app a handful of times per year and that is usually around opening and closing the system for the season. I found out there was a rachio driver and the geek in me started to ask the same question…… answer……not worth the money. only reason I could think, maybe hit a “button” in c4 to do a manual watering?????? maybe to turn the system on/off/standby…????? reality is I almost never even use the native rachio app so why bother with c4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 18 hours ago, C4 User said: @TundraSonic take a close look at Weathermatic. I have used weathermatic for almost 20 years. In my current home, they installed Hunter. I used it for a year and replaced it. I have Rachio installed at my mom’s home. As a home owner with a large system, the advanced features of weathermatic can’t be beat. Rachio is a great replacement to the basic controllers on the market, but I would not call it an advanced controller. Define advanced controller…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4 User Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, ekohn00 said: Define advanced controller…… I do not want to get into this conversation on the forum. The specs and manuals for all these controller options are available on line. Each person needs to choose for him/her self what features are important to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 @ekohn00, that could be said about nearly all home automation. The core of home automation is simplifying repetitive tasks. Taking something that normally takes 5 minutes of numerous individual tasks and making them in to a single 1 second button press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, C4 User said: I do not want to get into this conversation on the forum. The specs and manuals for all these controller options are available on line. Each person needs to choose for him/her self what features are important to them. Fair enough, but you did slap the label as being non-advanced on Rachio without any data. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, TundraSonic said: @ekohn00, that could be said about nearly all home automation. The core of home automation is simplifying repetitive tasks. Taking something that normally takes 5 minutes of numerous individual tasks and making them in to a single 1 second button press. For the most part, yes I cant disagree that the home automation use (ie control4) simplifies repetitive tasks. I guess I draw the line at paying for a driver to automate something that is already fully automated and doesn't need to be touched. ie automating the automated sprinklers. thinking about this a little more, there might be some probably rare reasons that integration is needed with sprinklers -> you need to shut of the sprinklers if the garage is open, or if its to cold out (and you don't have built in temperature - which Rachio does).... I did have a noisy kid who liked to run by the fence yelling at the dog, thought I'd automate a button to turn on the sprinkler by him....now that would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 We have 2 zones that get a gob of sun and about 30-40 times per year these zones need to be run an extra time in the afternoon or evening. I can't fully automate this because this is during active use time and people might be in those zones (and most controllers don't offer the needed level of automation/programming to do that anyway). Some 'automation' requires a human decision. As I said above, doing this manually with the app requires a lot of steps. It's a PITA. A single button press would be much better. That is the purpose of home automation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4 User Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 @ekohn00 I realize Rachio is a nice controller. As i mentioned, I have one installed in a family members house. But Weathermatic has additional features that are important to me that @TundraSonic eludes to above. Please, before anyone tells me what Rachio, Hunter, Rainbird can do, I already know. And they are the right solution for most installations. Now, before I even go into the features, I will say that most sprinkler systems are not even zoned in a manner that allows them to take advantage of many of the features. For example: slopes, soil type, plant type, sunlight, covered vs open plantings, etc. Proper zoning adds a LOT of zones to a system. When zoned properly, Weathermatic gives one the ability to set up each zone according to its attributes and to block out days and hours by program to enable the system to water as much as necessary without interfering with personal or regulated blockout hours or days. And the smart watering feature uses both location as well as an onsite weather station that measures temperature, rain, sun intensity and other inputs to calculate evaporation rate by zone. I have homes in areas that have heavy rain and mild temps as well as areas with lots of sun, extreme temps, and sporadic heavy rains. The smart watering algorithm is exceptional at ensuring adequate water by zone, eliminating any runoff, and conversing water consumption. In addition, I can set the low and high flow alarm limits by zone, and determine if the system continues to water the zone or skip the zone while continuing to water the other zones. I can also fully manage the system via an app and send in my sprinkler maintenance company when necessary. Again, I have a Rachio in a house so i am very familiar with it and I like it. Regarding integrating into C4, while it would be fun, I see no practical reason to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, TundraSonic said: We have 2 zones that get a gob of sun and about 30-40 times per year these zones need to be run an extra time in the afternoon or evening. I can't fully automate this because this is during active use time and people might be in those zones (and most controllers don't offer the needed level of automation/programming to do that anyway). Some 'automation' requires a human decision. As I said above, doing this manually with the app requires a lot of steps. It's a PITA. A single button press would be much better. That is the purpose of home automation. There is probably a weather driver you can use to extract data and then say "if zone 3 hasn't run in 24 hours and weather variable is X, run zone for 20 minutes"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 hours ago, TundraSonic said: We have 2 zones that get a gob of sun and about 30-40 times per year these zones need to be run an extra time in the afternoon or evening. I can't fully automate this because this is during active use time and people might be in those zones (and most controllers don't offer the needed level of automation/programming to do that anyway). Some 'automation' requires a human decision. As I said above, doing this manually with the app requires a lot of steps. It's a PITA. A single button press would be much better. That is the purpose of home automation. now that could make sense of the c4 integration. I actually have the same problem and just go into the app to get that extra watering started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Aren't some, or all, of these irrigation controllers supposed to have smart watering algorithms where they adjust the amount of watering based off on local rainfall and other weather variables? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, zaphod said: Aren't some, or all, of these irrigation controllers supposed to have smart watering algorithms where they adjust the amount of watering based off on local rainfall and other weather variables? to some degree I am starting to get more involved with Raciho as my outdoor space has "grown". there is a weather threshold to say if it rains or may rain more than X inches in the next 24 hours skip a cycle. well that threshold may be different for my grass versus shrubs versus perennial gardens. I don't easily see how to adjust the threshold by zone type, only overall on the controller. Just one example where it is smart, but maybe not smart enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo1738 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Biggest thing I see using C4 for w Rachio is if you have say outdoor audio or lights etc on than not to water that zone or maybe start a timer and run the zone later. Otherwise Rachio app does everything needed and you shouldn't really need to mess with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, eggzlot said: to some degree I am starting to get more involved with Raciho as my outdoor space has "grown". there is a weather threshold to say if it rains or may rain more than X inches in the next 24 hours skip a cycle. well that threshold may be different for my grass versus shrubs versus perennial gardens. I don't easily see how to adjust the threshold by zone type, only overall on the controller. Just one example where it is smart, but maybe not smart enough. I created watering "groups" for Grass, Bushed and Trees. Much easier to make adjustments to the thresholds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, zaphod said: Aren't some, or all, of these irrigation controllers supposed to have smart watering algorithms where they adjust the amount of watering based off on local rainfall and other weather variables? Yes it does, Rachio have that already! With rain is skips watering and this is exactly what I need to save water! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 45 minutes ago, ekohn00 said: I created watering "groups" for Grass, Bushed and Trees. Much easier to make adjustments to the thresholds. maybe I havent' cracked that nut. I do the same thing, but the water threshold is set at the controller level. You can do a group and then pick fixed, flex monthly or flex daily...but for weather intelligence, and if it skips based on rain, that is at the controller level, not per group, unless I am missing something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I've thought about integrating Rachio myself for the feature of being able to add a button for my AirBnB guests to press that would delay any current running program for 15 minutes, so they could get by without getting wet. Otherwise, I personally can't see a lot of benefit over starting the Rachio app, which isn't half bad. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 hours ago, eggzlot said: There is probably a weather driver you can use to extract data and then say "if zone 3 hasn't run in 24 hours and weather variable is X, run zone for 20 minutes"? Even if the controller could do this (that I'm aware of none can though it'd be easy to do in C4 if a controller had C4 integration) it needs to be human initiated. I don't want sprinklers coming on when people might be in the yard playing a game or reading or whatever. Totally automatic is fine overnight, not so fine mid afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, TundraSonic said: Even if the controller could do this (that I'm aware of none can though it'd be easy to do in C4 if a controller had C4 integration) it needs to be human initiated. I don't want sprinklers coming on when people might be in the yard playing a game or reading or whatever. Totally automatic is fine overnight, not so fine mid afternoon. This can also be automated with C4 and motion sensors, some sophistication also can be done with presence sensors from RoomMe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraSonic Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Amr said: This can also be automated with C4 and motion sensors, some sophistication also can be done with presence sensors from RoomMe! Yes, but not reliably. For example, if someone is sitting in the yard reading then a motion sensor is not likely to pick them up. And automation won't know if people are planning a croquet match or to work in the garden (though this human has missed those himself). Though if an irrigation controller had the C4 integration to allow fully automated then I'd also be able to program a simple button press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 minute ago, TundraSonic said: Yes, but not reliably. For example, if someone is sitting in the yard reading then a motion sensor is not likely to pick them up. And automation won't know if people are planning a croquet match or to work in the garden (though this human has missed those himself). Though if an irrigation controller had the C4 integration to allow fully automated then I'd also be able to program a simple button press. Presence sensor will stop irrigation as long as there are people in the area, regardless what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekohn00 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, eggzlot said: maybe I havent' cracked that nut. I do the same thing, but the water threshold is set at the controller level. You can do a group and then pick fixed, flex monthly or flex daily...but for weather intelligence, and if it skips based on rain, that is at the controller level, not per group, unless I am missing something yes..... the idea of rain changing things would be at the systems level - it does assume the house is all being rained on. However, each zone would be different since it is specific to item (grass/bush/tree), slope, area, permutation rates, etc. TundraSonic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Africa C4 user Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 8 hours ago, ekohn00 said: yes..... the idea of rain changing things would be at the systems level - it does assume the house is all being rained on. However, each zone would be different since it is specific to item (grass/bush/tree), slope, area, permutation rates, etc. I must say that I have no irrigation system (ditched my rain bird 5 or 6 years ago). I wire directly into an I/O extender and I then program (in c4 against various rain values). My indoor watering circuit happens irrespective of rain and simply varies by time of year. My outdoor circuits reduce to 50% or off based on rainfall values which I store for the last day, the last 2 days and the last 5 days. Play (irrigate), pause, turn on and off scheduled irrigation, changing from long to short watering and changing from morning to evening are all controlled from a touchscreen (and, for the first few from an irrigation keypad button). Similarly, I have a test program for maintenance which runs each zone for 30 seconds and I have a bypass zone option which lets one bypass one or more zones permanently (I.e. until manually unchecked). Lastly, I have a stop irrigation in x days and start irrigation in y days option for times when you want to manually override things. The native irrigation program C4 driver is sufficient to allow for all of this with the relevant programming. One day, I intend to link in one of the scheduler drivers to allow even more flexibility on the touchscreen but in reality, I have not had to change anything in Composer for a good few years so my irrigation (virtual) room on the Touchscreens is more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.