Irrigation Controller for 2022 ?

[TundraSonic]

15 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

yes..... the idea of rain changing things would be at the systems level - it does assume the house is all being rained on.

However, each zone would be different since it is specific to item (grass/bush/tree), slope, area, permutation rates, etc.  

Both Rainbird and Hunter do this at closer to a zone level. The Rainbird LXD has a single master weather (online) and 4 weather sensor inputs (typically rain/freeze/wind). ET/MAD calcs are done for each zone based on terrain, crop / vegetation type, soil, solar exposure, overall local weather, nearest zone rain/freeze/wind, etc.

Realistically I do wonder if soil moisture sensors get reliable and inexpensive enough if that wouldn't be the better way to do it rather than current ET/MAD. Current soil moisture plus predicted rain/sun/wind would seem the most accurate?

 

[TundraSonic]

7 hours ago, South Africa C4 user said:

I must say that I have no irrigation system (ditched my rain bird 5 or 6 years ago).  I wire directly into an I/O extender and I then program (in c4 against various rain values). 

I think doing even pseudo accurate ET/MAD calcs in C4 would be somewhere between impossible and excruciating   However, I think that this from a concept is not a bad way to go.

The irrigation calcs would need to be done in a separate app or add-in but one huge advantage is that if multiple people develop them then you can choose which you use and change it if someone comes out with a better one. So no longer locked in to what choices Hunter/Rainbird/Rachio/Weathermatic make.

Then an 'irrigation I/O extender' device that can be located outside, ideally based on some kind of industry standard interface to the controller app, 2-wire decoder based for zone valves & sensors, and with some way to manually start/stop zones. Otherwise it's controlled by the app or C4.

[TundraSonic]

RE: Industry Standard Interface between an irrigation controller app and an irrigation controller I/O device?  And for that matter to a weather station?

The controller could be a mac-mini, arduino, windows PC, EA-5 or whatever. The lower layers link to the I/O device could be Ethernet/TCP, Ethernet/Thread?, WiFi/Thread, Zigbee, etc.?

Is there already an industry standard that the upper layers would be based on?   Matter?

[ekohn00]

3 hours ago, TundraSonic said:

Both Rainbird and Hunter do this at closer to a zone level. The Rainbird LXD has a single master weather (online) and 4 weather sensor inputs (typically rain/freeze/wind). ET/MAD calcs are done for each zone based on terrain, crop / vegetation type, soil, solar exposure, overall local weather, nearest zone rain/freeze/wind, etc.

Realistically I do wonder if soil moisture sensors get reliable and inexpensive enough if that wouldn't be the better way to do it rather than current ET/MAD. Current soil moisture plus predicted rain/sun/wind would seem the most accurate?

 

I think the Rainbirds and Hunter do the same as Rachio in regards to rain sensor. My old Hunter and Rachio allow for 2 rain sensors. My Rachio then calculates watering based on Vegetation's type, Spray head, Soil type, sun exposure, slop, water flow, area, root depth, depletion, and crop coefficient (whatever that is) and nozzle inches per hour.

I would guess the only way to get a more accurate watering is to have a sensor in each zone.

[azkid]

Would it be possible for c4 to see when a zone is set to go off and then use that to change the color of a keypad using one of these controllers? My wife keeps letting the dogs out only to find them soaked.  Would want to change the keypad color by the door a few mins before the zone is scheduled to go off.   I live in AZ so only way to keep the grass is to have it run multiple times a day. 

[Jeff W]

20 hours ago, azkid said:

Would it be possible for c4 to see when a zone is set to go off and then use that to change the color of a keypad using one of these controllers? My wife keeps letting the dogs out only to find them soaked.  Would want to change the keypad color by the door a few mins before the zone is scheduled to go off.   I live in AZ so only way to keep the grass is to have it run multiple times a day. 

Short answer: Yes, this is possible if you have an irrigation controller that has a Control4 driver installed on the project.  

Without knowing the button configuration, LED configuration it's difficult to say exactly how to do the programming.

 

In general though:  

When Irrigation zone turns on

-> Set (button name) LED on the (room location) -> (keypad location) to (desired color)

 

In order to change the buttons back to their proper color you need to query the load / button.

 

If back door light is on  (or whatever the button function was)

Set (button name) LED on (room location) -> (keypad location) to (desired color)

Else

Set (button name) LED on (room location) -> (keypad location) to (desired color)

 

It's difficult to give examples when we don't know the exact details, but hopefully this helps.  

 

 

 

[Neo1738]

Can't you just program 

 

?When irrigation changes

     ?If irrigation is on light color red

     else

     ?If irrigation is off light color green

 

You get the idea.

[TundraSonic]

On 6/14/2022 at 9:48 AM, ekohn00 said:

I think the Rainbirds and Hunter do the same as Rachio in regards to rain sensor. My old Hunter and Rachio allow for 2 rain sensors. My Rachio then calculates watering based on Vegetation's type, Spray head, Soil type, sun exposure, slop, water flow, area, root depth, depletion, and crop coefficient (whatever that is) and nozzle inches per hour.

I would guess the only way to get a more accurate watering is to have a sensor in each zone.

That's all using pure ET/MAD though which are very rough approximations trying to guess what the soil moisture is. Soil moisture sensors should, I think, be able to provide much more accurate information to the controller/app and they are getting functional and inexpensive enough that you could put one in each zone or even multiple in each zone.

[TundraSonic]

57 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

Can't you just program

...

You get the idea.

That could easily get out of sync. Better to simply query the controller so that you know for certain if a zone is going to start in the next xx minutes and then change the LED.  With a decent API you should be able to do an orange for starting in 30 minutes, blinking orange for starting within 15 minutes, red for currently running and blinking red for running but in final 15 minutes or something.

[RyanE]

1 hour ago, TundraSonic said:

... blinking orange for starting within 15 minutes ...

Blinking is never really recommended in Control4, since there isn't a blink option for LEDs on keypads, so the blinking must be implemented within ComposerPro programming, which adds load on your controller,  adds additional messages to the Zigbee mesh, and doesn't guarantee the blinking will be consistent (if director is busy doing something else, it won't handle the LED blink).

RyanE

[Neo1738]

22 hours ago, TundraSonic said:

That could easily get out of sync. Better to simply query the controller so that you know for certain if a zone is going to start in the next xx minutes and then change the LED.  With a decent API you should be able to do an orange for starting in 30 minutes, blinking orange for starting within 15 minutes, red for currently running and blinking red for running but in final 15 minutes or something.

Perhaps a better way is if you know the zone times you can start a timer when the irrigation starts. When timer ends turn off LEDs. I also have a midnight reset scheduled. So stuff like this you know you're not watering at midnight could add the line to change LEDs to off just in case it got out of sync at least every night at midnight or whatever time of day you want they go off. 

[TundraSonic]

1 hour ago, Neo1738 said:

Perhaps a better way is if you know the zone times you can start a timer when the irrigation starts...

Perhaps. But with intelligent controllers the start time for any individual zone is weather dependent. While my overall program is scheduled to start at 4a, only two zones start at that time. The next zone start time could be anywhere from maybe 15 minutes out (cool/cloudy forecast) to an hour out (hot/sunny/windy forecast). Then there are times when zones are started manually.

[TundraSonic]

22 hours ago, RyanE said:

Blinking is never really recommended in Control4, ...

True. We can always dream (though I'd rank a long press of much higher importance to me personally).  

[TundraSonic]

I'd really like to see standard protocols/interfaces for weather/environment sensors and irrigation devices (controllers, 2-wire decoder systems of sensors and valves, etc.). 

[zaphod]

17 minutes ago, TundraSonic said:

I'd really like to see standard protocols/interfaces for weather/environment sensors and irrigation devices (controllers, 2-wire decoder systems of sensors and valves, etc.). 

Agreed, and the same for pool equipment.  

FYI - There is also the OpenSprinkler project:  https://opensprinkler.com/

[TundraSonic]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

FYI - There is also the OpenSprinkler project:  https://opensprinkler.com/

Thanks for that. Some promise there. One drawback is that they only support analog valves/devices and not digital (2-wire decoder) systems.  Do you know if there are other apps that work with their hardware device?

It looks like someone did a C4 driver some years ago but disappeared.

 

[Jeff W]

On 6/27/2022 at 7:04 AM, Neo1738 said:

Can't you just program 

 

?When irrigation changes

     ?If irrigation is on light color red

     else

     ?If irrigation is off light color green

 

You get the idea.

It is possible.  It depends if the existing buttons are already doing something and you want to override the existing colors.  

 

As I said, it's difficult to give exact examples without some context.  

[zaphod]

It is about a year and a half since this thread.  I still am using my Irrigation Caddy but would like to replace it.  My Irrigation Service guy is a Hunter dealer so I could use a Hunter Controller.  Does anyone know if the Hunger software has improved at all?  Hunter is easiest for me since he is familiar with the app so he could easily control my system when he comes to turn it on in the spring and to blow it out in the autumn.

Do either Rachio or Hunter controllers have an ethernet port in addition to Wifi?  I could easily run a cable to the location of my controller.  Is it pretty easy to switch over to a new controller?  I have to think it is just a case of changing wires from the Common and each zone to the new controller, is it not?

[eggzlot]

5 minutes ago, zaphod said:

It is about a year and a half since this thread.  I still am using my Irrigation Caddy but would like to replace it.  My Irrigation Service guy is a Hunter dealer so I could use a Hunter Controller.  Does anyone know if the Hunger software has improved at all?  Hunter is easiest for me since he is familiar with the app so he could easily control my system when he comes to turn it on in the spring and to blow it out in the autumn.

Do either Rachio or Hunter controllers have an ethernet port in addition to Wifi?  I could easily run a cable to the location of my controller.  Is it pretty easy to switch over to a new controller?  I have to think it is just a case of changing wires from the Common and each zone to the new controller, is it not?

wiring should be easy

I used to have a "dumb" irrigation unit and I just matched the colors into the zones of the new one.  for instance, purple wire went to zone 1, red wire went to zone 2, orange to zone 3 and so on...

re: Hunter software, no idea, I just use Rachio.  when my tech comes over, though I can give him access, I just press a few buttons and do 3 mins per zone and it runs on auto and I walk away.  pretty simple.

[zaphod]

How do you find the smart capabilities of the Rachio, or do you even use that?  And do you know if you can connect a Hunter rain sensor to a Rachio?  Or do you even need that?

[ekohn00]

31 minutes ago, zaphod said:

How do you find the smart capabilities of the Rachio, or do you even use that?  And do you know if you can connect a Hunter rain sensor to a Rachio?  Or do you even need that?

My Hunter Hydrowise works nicely with C4. Set up a few "water now" buttons for different areas to give extra water....

[zaphod]

3 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

My Hunter Hydrowise works nicely with C4. Set up a few "water now" buttons for different areas to give extra water....

C4 integration would be nice, but not crucial as was discussed above in this thread.  Is the driver free or do you have to pay for it?

[eggzlot]

5 hours ago, zaphod said:

How do you find the smart capabilities of the Rachio, or do you even use that?  And do you know if you can connect a Hunter rain sensor to a Rachio?  Or do you even need that?

i use the smart features, and no real need for a physical rain sensor.  in some areas it may be required by ordinances I suppose

all you need to know about Rachio and Rain Sensors:

https://support.rachio.com/en_us/rain-sensors-faq-BkWRP8JKP

[ekohn00]

7 hours ago, zaphod said:

C4 integration would be nice, but not crucial as was discussed above in this thread.  Is the driver free or do you have to pay for it?

For the life of me, i can't remember, but think they were cheap enough not to care.

https://annex4.link/drivers/hydrawise-hc

 

[zaphod]

3 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

I think they were free....

https://annex4.link/drivers/hydrawise-hc

Do you need both the controller and the zone drivers?  The one you linked to and this one?  https://annex4.link/drivers/hydrawise-hc-zone