Goodbye to component 1080p???

[ERDrPC]

Check out this article from CEPro http://www.cepro.com/article/say_goodbye_to_analog_ports_on_blu_ray_players/

“January 1, 2011, software manufacturers will be able to insert something called an Image Constraint Token into any Blu-ray disc. This bit of digital information will turn the high-definition component video output OFF the player(s).”

Does this mean everyone who currently has video distribution using component is at the mercy of the new discs in that these discs will be able to turn off 1080p component distribution even on old (currently installed) equipment? I couldn’t imagine the equipment being subject to this new feature without a firmware upgrade. I guess that means don’t upgrade??

[dgbrown]

Welcome to the sunset ! Your functional component will also be stepped down to SD output.

You're right. The firmware would have to support it though.

[bnelson76]

I think it is a step toward the new 3D push which cannot be accomplished over 1080p on component video. Just my 2 cents.

[ILoveC4]

Cue GoGo Delicious...

[CFUG]

Gentlemen, start (er, install) your baluns.

[Nded]

I'm under the impression that if you don't update the firmware on your Blu-Ray player it won't even be able to play content with the Image Constraint Token. This has absolutely nothing to do with 3D.

[CFUG]

^Wouldn't an update (at the milestone) include a token push? I agree- nothing to do with 3D. If that were the case why would 3D be staged well before the sunset date?

[dgbrown]

Cue GoGo Delicious...

So right !! Where are you Go Go?

[ERDrPC]

So I guess its HDMI video distribution for the future

[akg4y]

HDFury2/HDFury3

[GoGo Delicious]

Cue GoGo Delicious...

So right !! Where are you Go Go?

Im here . .I did not see these posts. Let me review the posts and I will post (in 1 post) what the actual facts are as stated is the AACS Adopter Agreement.

[3fingerbrown]

I wonder if this image constraint token, or something like it, will also be inserted into digital downloads of movie files from iTunes and other download sites. And would they also limit the output of devices that are streaming content (netlix, vudu). So even if you download a movie, or try and stream a movie off netflix, they would prevent you from viewing HD content over component and force you on to HDMI. I would guess the answer is yes, as the world movies slowly towards digital download/streaming of movies/broadcast content.

[GoGo Delicious]

Check out this article from CEPro http://www.cepro.com/article/say_goodbye_to_analog_ports_on_blu_ray_players/

“January 1, 2011, software manufacturers will be able to insert something called an Image Constraint Token into any Blu-ray disc. This bit of digital information will turn the high-definition component video output OFF the player(s).”

Does this mean everyone who currently has video distribution using component is at the mercy of the new discs in that these discs will be able to turn off 1080p component distribution even on old (currently installed) equipment? I couldn’t imagine the equipment being subject to this new feature without a firmware upgrade. I guess that means don’t upgrade??

The short answer to your question is yes. To keep this short I wont go into detail, but every Blu-Ray player sold has the ability to turn off 1080p over component based on the ICT (Image Constraint Token) that is imbedded on the Blu-Ray disc. Every studio will implement the ICT at their own discretion.

I think it is a step toward the new 3D push which cannot be accomplished over 1080p on component video. Just my 2 cents.

It has nothing to do with 3D. It's all about content protection. You can record 1080p over component since there is no HDCP .

You have to keep in mind when designing a Video Distribution system is that the studios don't care about weather you can send 1080p over CAT5/6, Baluns, Video over IP, etc. They only certify for one cable type and thats HDMI and nothing else. About 3 years ago I posted some where on this forum that all wiring pulls should include fiber and that we were pulling fiber for our clients for the future. As usual I was laughed at and people wrote off my suggestion. But now I have a system running over fiber that can deliver the all of the following, up to 300 meter (about 1000 feet) over a single pair Multimode fiber cable.

1) Uncompressed HDMI 1.3 video with support for Deep Color

2) Uncompressed Multi-channel Audio (Dolby® TrueHD 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital AC3 5.1, Dolby Digital EX 5.1, DTS-HD Master Audio™ 7.1, DTS-HD High Res 7.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-ES Matrix 5.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS 96/24 5.1, up to 8ch PCM)

3) Ethernet (10/100)

4) RS-232 (1 Port)

5) IR (2 Ports)

6) USB (1 Port)

7) Relay (2 Ports)

8) Digital/Contact

9) Ability to embed CEC commands directly within the HDMI Channel and send to any display

You can see my fiber install HERE

The reason I bring this up is that people are thinking of "Now" which is 1080p and not the future which is 4K and 8K resolution. HDMI over CAT5/6 will not handle this. Think you have issues with 1080p over CAT5/6? Think about getting 4K or 8K over CAT5/6. Is there content for 4K or 8K now? No! But just like 3 or 4 years ago there was little to no content for 1080p. 3 to 4 years from now you will see content for 4k and 8k displays. I will say this if you are wiring now PULL FIBER. You do not have to terminate it but pull it. If your installer says you don't need it or for what ever reason does not want to pull it find a new installer. For some reasons a lot of installers I talk to are afraid of fiber, just as they were afraid of HDMI and told clients to run Component over CAT5/6.

Hope that helps. Any questions let me know.

[3fingerbrown]

This thread should be titled "the end of component." The article says that after Dec. 31, 2010, manufacturers will not introduce new hardware with component outputs at all. They can only manufacture component outuputs on existing models. What's the average life cycle for a blu ray player? 1-2 years max? Component will be gone in a few years.

This will definitely ramp up the competition for reliable and cost effective HDMI video distribution.

[well_armed]

Exactly

[dgbrown]

Check out this article from CEPro http://www.cepro.com/article/say_goodbye_to_analog_ports_on_blu_ray_players/

“January 1, 2011, software manufacturers will be able to insert something called an Image Constraint Token into any Blu-ray disc. This bit of digital information will turn the high-definition component video output OFF the player(s).”

......................................

You can see my fiber install HERE

......................................

Hope that helps. Any questions let me know.

Go Go : Well over the top. Hat's off to you ! Did I get that right, you're dropping CEC frames down the hdmi channel for in-room display control ?

[GoGo Delicious]

Check out this article from CEPro http://www.cepro.com/article/say_goodbye_to_analog_ports_on_blu_ray_players/

“January 1' date=' 2011, software manufacturers will be able to insert something called an Image Constraint Token into any Blu-ray disc. This bit of digital information will turn the high-definition component video output OFF the player(s).”[/b']

......................................

You can see my fiber install HERE

......................................

Hope that helps. Any questions let me know.

Go Go : Well over the top. Hat's off to you !

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Did I get that right, you're dropping CEC frames down the hdmi channel for in-room display control ?

Correct. I can send CEC right into the HDMI channel for control. Currently the issue with CEC and HDMI is the lack of being able to harness the CEC control code. I have full control over what CEC control code to send, when to send it and where in the HDMI channel to insert the CEC code. I can send a CEC command either to the source or the display at anytime and based on any variable.

[GoGo Delicious]

GoGo delicious, had a scan through your fiber install, good stuff.

Thanks.

. . .and other than crestron do you know anyone else whom does fiber matrix's ? Thanks

You can look at NeoThings/NeoPro. Their LightSpider System sends video over fiber but as far as Audio, ethernet, RS232, etc. I do not know to much about the product itself though.

[davidrab]

Any questions let me know.

These discussions always revolve around BR players (for obvious reasons), but to

3fingerbrowns point, what do you think about this concept spreading to other sources

(like DirecTV receivers, something that I would be mostly worried about)? I think I've

read something somewhere about DirecTV wanting this and using the "we can't have

more HD distribution because of those darn HD analog outputs" excuse (I paraphrase).

Do you think this analog sunset will give more drive to DirecTV's desire to not have

HD over component? I wouldn't even be that concerned with them turning off 1080p,

but it's limiting it to 480p that bothers me.

This will definitely ramp up the competition for reliable and cost effective HDMI video distribution.

I hope so. It's funny when I read (on another forum) opinions on video distribution

systems and some people say "I would never install HDMI because it's too much a PITA"

and others say "I would never install component because it will be obsolete soon".

Makes me want to read about solutions for Middle East peace.

[thecodeman]

Do you think this analog sunset will give more drive to DirecTV's desire to not have

HD over component? I wouldn't even be that concerned with them turning off 1080p,

but it's limiting it to 480p that bothers me.

Isn't it dish network today that does the 1080p video on demand, but you have to use HDMI for it?

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/3006/satellite-vs-blu-ray-dishing-up-1080p-apples-to-apples-page2.html

Anyway, as long as you can get 1080i over component it wouldnt be that bad - but if they start downconverting everything to SD that's not on HDMI... that will suck.

[GoGo Delicious]

Any questions let me know.

These discussions always revolve around BR players (for obvious reasons)' date=' but to

3fingerbrowns point, what do you think about this concept spreading to other sources

(like DirecTV receivers, something that I would be mostly worried about)? I think I've

read something somewhere about DirecTV wanting this and using the "we can't have

more HD distribution because of those darn HD analog outputs" excuse (I paraphrase).

Do you think this analog sunset will give more drive to DirecTV's desire to not have

HD over component? I wouldn't even be that concerned with them turning off 1080p,

but it's limiting it to 480p that bothers me.[/quote']

The Analog Sunset applies to all devices manufactured. Not just DVD players. Don't forget that the cable companies do not manufacture cable boxes it companies like Motorola that make them. Motorola, and every other manufacture, will have to follow the Sunset rules in regards to content being limited to 576i over analog outputs (Component and Component) plan and simple. Does anyone here remember what Sky HD did? One day, without notice, they turned off HD over Component. All their customers had to have HDMI in order to receive HD content.

Remember, after the Analog Sunset (which is 12/31/10) the only way to view any content over 576i is to go over HDMI no matter what the source is, Cable/Satellite TV, DVD, DVR, etc.

[GoGo Delicious]

Here is the direct quote from the AACS Adopter Agreement.

2.2.2.1 Analog Sunset – 2010. With the exception of Existing Models,

any Licensed Player manufactured after December 31, 2010 shall

limit analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to SD

Interlace Modes only. Existing Models may be manufactured and

sold by Adopter up until December 31, 2011. Notwithstanding the

foregoing, Adopter may continue to manufacture and sell an

Existing Model in which the implementation of AACS Technology

is a Robust Inactive Product after December 31, 2010 provided

that when such Robust Inactive Product is activated through a

Periodic Update, such Periodic Update results in a Licensed Player

that limits analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to

SD Interlace Modes only. Nothing in this section shall be

interpreted to override limitations or obligations stated in any other

section of this Agreement.

For purposes of this section, “SD Interlace Modes” shall mean

composite video, s-video, 480i component video and 576i video.

2.2.2.2 Analog Sunset – 2013. No Licensed Player that passes Decrypted

AACS Content to analog video outputs may be manufactured or

sold by Adopter after December 31, 2013.

There are no exceptions.

[davidrab]

Isn't it dish network today that does the 1080p video on demand, but you have to use HDMI for it?

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/3006/satellite-vs-blu-ray-dishing-up-1080p-apples-to-apples-page2.html

Anyway, as long as you can get 1080i over component it wouldnt be that bad - but if they start downconverting everything to SD that's not on HDMI... that will suck.

Dish may have been the one I was thinking about.

The other issue that I think applied more to set top boxes was Selectable Output Control. I've

done a quick little refresher on the subject and it seems more vague and possibly dangerous.

[ILoveC4]

So what about DVD and Bluray rips that I have on my NAS and playback using a digital media player? If this "token" that forbids playback of the content over component lies on the BR disc, how will they affect digital media? Couldn't I just chose not to execute the firmware update on my media player (the only way I see they can change this)? I guess they could have that date built in already...

[davidrab]

The Analog Sunset applies to all devices manufactured. Not just DVD players. Don't forget that the cable companies do not manufacture cable boxes it companies like Motorola that make them. Motorola, and every other manufacture, will have to follow the Sunset rules in regards to content being limited to 576i over analog outputs (Component and Component) plan and simple. Does anyone here remember what Sky HD did? One day, without notice, they turned off HD over Component. All their customers had to have HDMI in order to receive HD content.

Remember, after the Analog Sunset (which is 12/31/10) the only way to any content over 576i is to go over HDMI no matter what the source is, Cable/Satellite TV, DVD, DVR, etc.

Ah, thank you.